2K ironjawz competitive

[Sneak]

I've played 6 games with the following list with a record of 5-0-1 was hoping on some suggestions for an upcoming 2K tournament. Yesterday I ran a weirdfist yesterday to hopefully counter nagash in the event.

Leaders
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (700)
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Ravager
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Units
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
Orruk Gore Gruntas x 3 (180)

Behemoths

War Machines

Batallions
Weirdfist (100)

Total: 1960/2000

Moving forward I am considering just removing the shaman and formation and that leaves me with 220 extra. I refuse to play ardboyz

[Nico]

Not using Gordrakk's Command Ability looks wasteful. I'd personally favour one large unit of Brutes and a few units of Ardboyz (half of each unit Big Choppa and half Shields).

[Chris Tomlin]

14 minutes ago, Sneak said:

I refuse to play ardboyz

If you are looking for suggestions on competitive play with Ironjawz, you may need to revise the above statement! They are our cheapest pts/wound ratio and also the most solidly defensive units, something very key under General's Handbook battleplans.

I am definitely interesting in hearing your thoughts around the Weirdfist as we don't see too much of that with Ironfist just being the "best" go to choice.

Congrats on your record so far, very impressive with an arguably weaker Ironjawz list. What kind of lists and opposition have you been facing? Got any more info on the Tournament, ie what battleplans you'll be playing and whether there is any kind of comp etc in effect.

 

[Braggoth]

I recently switch to using both Weirdfist and Ironfist battalions in 2k games, and dropping the Maw Crusha. I've played just a few games, but since then, every game was a crushing win for me, whereas before, many games were very tight.

Having 3-4 units in the Ironfist helps the speed issue of the Ironjawz, whereas the weird fist helps hero snipping, and breaking opposing synergies.

Ardboys are really key in the weirdfist, as they are tanky, and can help the weirfist gaining more bonuses late game (seeing they don't get wiped so easily).

Gordrakk is cool and all, but too many times I've had him die turn 1 without him having a chance to use his command ability.

[Nico]

I guess the Weirdfist is a bit like artillery for Ironjawz - with a potentially long range mortal wound spell or mid range mortal wound spam. Would be interesting coupled with the Balewind - although when you fail the cast roll - it's a big downer.

I'd echo what the Kunning Megaboss above said about Ardboyz. Model count matters too much in the Battleplans to ignore them.

[Nico]

I'd also say that you just need to spank the points on (another) Wizard for mystic shield - otherwise literally going in naked - Gordrakk needs to be rocking a 2+ or your biggest Hamner unit needs a 3+. You probably need the heroes for 3 Places of Power too especially if Gordrakk is off stompin something.

[Chris Tomlin]

I also just noticed there is no Warchanter in this list...eeeep!!

@Braggoth - No Cabbage is definitely the way forward for most battleplans if you are coming for a purely competitive standpoint. Not saying it doesn't have it's uses but it is just waaay too expensive IMO.

I don't think I'd ever consider Gordrakk in pure Ironjawz. Perhaps in mixed Destruction or with a really tasty battalion. Honestly I don't see what he is offering the above list. As @Nico says you almost need a Wizard to be his personal Mystic Shield, but sinking 240 into a pair of Weirdnobs is graphic!! At least in mixed Destruction you could plump for a cheap 80 pointer.

[Sneak]

Those of you bashing this list should first try it before calling it weak. Brutes > Ard boys period. Weirdfist was only tested because I do not want to lose to nagash.  Also you only need 20 guys for the +2 so if I ran it again I would play ard boys. But i wont play it again because the shaman is very random. I'd rather play another unit of gruntas and another megaboss over ard boys and shaman. Kind of sucks having no magic tho 

I no longer play iornfist for the points because of the destruction bonus. 

[Chris Tomlin]

1 hour ago, Sneak said:

I've played 6 games with the following list with a record of 5-0-1 was hoping on some suggestions for an upcoming 2K tournament.

15 minutes ago, Sneak said:

Those of you bashing this list should first try it before calling it weak.

Did you actually want suggestions as per your first post or would you like us to tell you that it is already perfect, having won 5/6 games vs unknown opposition? There is a wealth of experience in this forum should you want it.

15 minutes ago, Sneak said:

But i wont play it again because the shaman is very random.

Agreed. I am not a fan of the Shaman whatsoever and have not found it worthwhile under the General's Handbook where I have played upwards of 35 games, including 21 at tournaments. I think I dropped it after about the first 3-4 games!! You will learn to not worry about the lack of magic and play around it, Ironjawz can definitely be successful without it.

15 minutes ago, Sneak said:

Brutes > Ard boys period.

This is incredibly short sighted. They perform different roles within a competitive Ironjawz list and are both vital.

Can I asked which battleplans you played in your 6 games? Your list looks very focussed on pure smash play.

[N_Watson]

Brutes will kill more, for sure, but lose one brute and you start losing them to battle shock and they become much less effective.  Ardboys are what will get you major victorys. Killing more than your opponent can only get you a minor.  

Having tried lists similar to yours with Gordrakk, he really is not good when compared with the normal megaboss. 

Gordrakk will not outperform 5 brutes / 10 ardboys and a cabbage in a generals handbook scenario. 

He can't take an artifact and he is an unreliable general, often out on his own to get his worth. 

I have had great success so far with 

Megaboss 

Cabbage 

Shaman

War chanter

20 brutes 

10 Ardboys

3 gruntas. 

I want to swap the gruntas for 10 more ardboys and looking to run more chanters as well. 

 

[Nico]

Quote

At least in mixed Destruction you could plump for a cheap 80 pointer.

60 Pointer - Night Goblin Shaman - also gets +2 to cast.

[Sneak]

33 minutes ago, N_Watson said:

Brutes will kill more, for sure, but lose one brute and you start losing them to battle shock and they become much less effective.  Ardboys are what will get you major victorys. Killing more than your opponent can only get you a minor.  

Having tried lists similar to yours with Gordrakk, he really is not good when compared with the normal megaboss. 

Gordrakk will not outperform 5 brutes / 10 ardboys and a cabbage in a generals handbook scenario. 

He can't take an artifact and he is an unreliable general, often out on his own to get his worth. 

I have had great success so far with 

Megaboss 

Cabbage 

Shaman

War chanter

20 brutes 

10 Ardboys

3 gruntas. 

I want to swap the gruntas for 10 more ardboys and looking to run more chanters as well. 

 

wtf is a Cabbage ?

[N_Watson]

Just now, Sneak said:

wtf is a Cabbage ?

What Gordrakk rides on 

[Sneak]

47 minutes ago, Chris Tomlin said:

Did you actually want suggestions as per your first post or would you like us to tell you that it is already perfect, having won 5/6 games vs unknown opposition? There is a wealth of experience in this forum should you want it.

Agreed. I am not a fan of the Shaman whatsoever and have not found it worthwhile under the General's Handbook where I have played upwards of 35 games, including 21 at tournaments. I think I dropped it after about the first 3-4 games!! You will learn to not worry about the lack of magic and play around it, Ironjawz can definitely be successful without it.

This is incredibly short sighted. They perform different roles within a competitive Ironjawz list and are both vital.

Can I asked which battleplans you played in your 6 games? Your list looks very focussed on pure smash play.

if i was going to play the same amount of brutes I would play 3 more gore gruntas over a unit of 10 ard boyz. Also "focussed on pure smash play" These are orks we're talking about here...

[Dez]

What Chris is referring to by 'Smash Play' is a bit different, we know that it's going to be all assault all the time  Smash Play is playing to destroy your opponent, which is mainly going to net you minor victories. To get major victories, you need to play cagey (Kunnin'!) and prepare for each scenario. This means boots on the ground in Ardboyz, and Brutes bringing the killy in order to gain objectives.

[Malakithe]

As an advocate of the Weirdfist I'd say your doing it wrong. You literally need to bubble wrap the shaman in bodies for the bonuses. At a minimumyou need 30 models around him 100% of the time and the entire battalion needs to stay behind the front line guys. 

Sample list...

Leader (340pts)

Orruk Megaboss (140pts)

Orruk Warchanter (80pts)

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120pts)

Battleline (1440pts)

10 Ardboys (180pts)

10 Ardboys (180pts)

10 Ardboys (180pts)

10 Ardboys (180pts)

10 Brutes (360pts)

5 Brutes (180pts)

5 Brutes (180pts)

Battalion: Ironfist (60pts)

Battalion: Weirdfist (100pts)

With competitive games objectives are the focus. Even if you table your opponent you can still lose. You need bodies. The concept of the list is fairly simple. Ironfist moves up super quick with Megaboss and Warchanter to smash head first into the front while the Weirdfist blast stuff from afar and captures stuff.

[N_Watson]

9 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

As an advocate of the Weirdfist I'd say your doing it wrong. You literally need to bubble wrap the shaman in bodies for the bonuses. At a minimumyou need 30 models around him 100% of the time and the entire battalion needs to stay behind the front line guys. 

Sample list...

Leader (340pts)

Orruk Megaboss (140pts)

Orruk Warchanter (80pts)

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120pts)

Battleline (1440pts)

10 Ardboys (180pts)

10 Ardboys (180pts)

10 Ardboys (180pts)

10 Ardboys (180pts)

10 Brutes (360pts)

5 Brutes (180pts)

5 Brutes (180pts)

Battalion: Ironfist (60pts)

Battalion: Weirdfist (100pts)

With competitive games objectives are the focus. Even if you table your opponent you can still lose. You need bodies. The concept of the list is fairly simple. Ironfist moves up super quick with Megaboss and Warchanter to smash head first into the front while the Weirdfist blast stuff from afar and captures stuff.

What's your answer to 30 inch range shooting? I have had my shaman sniped by an allariel even when trying to hide him behind cover. Monsters with shooting are big enough to see the shaman behind an ardboys as well. Have been put off by this formation due to its expense and only being able to contain one shaman which mean you need two if you want mystic shield. 

I have tried it and been underwhelmed. Not just theory.   

[Sneak]

2 hours ago, N_Watson said:

say your doing it wrong. You literally need to bubble wrap the shaman in bodies for the bonuses. At a minimumyou need 30 models around him 100% of the time and the entire battalion needs to stay behind the front line guys. 

Sample list...

I agree with you about the formation which is why I said i wouldn't play it again. How would you deal with nagash? 

[N_Watson]

1 minute ago, Sneak said:

I agree with you about the formation which is why I said i wouldn't play it again. How would you deal with nagash? 

The same as any target with more than 4 wounds. Brutes!  Weight of dice! 

[Sneak]

my brutes never reach because of the swarm of ghouls or zombies... 

[Sneak]

what do you boyz think about this list 

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Megaboss (140)

Units
Orruk Brutes x 10 (360)
Orruk Brutes x 10 (360)
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
Orruk Gore Gruntas x 3 (180)
Orruk Ardboys x 20 (360)

Behemoths

War Machines

Batallions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 1960/2000

[Dez]

Make sure to give the units of 10 Brutes Jagged Gore-hackas so you can reach Nagash  Seriously they have big bases, you'll want them in order to get in all/most of your attacks.

[N_Watson]

8 minutes ago, Sneak said:

my brutes never reach because of the swarm of ghouls or zombies... 

I have had a unit of 5 brutes wipe out a unit of 30 ghouls in one turn with battle shock  if they are buffed and near a hero maybe not a full unit but that's just 5 brutes. I don't find nagash scary at all  

2 minutes ago, Sneak said:

what do you boyz think about this list 

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Megaboss (140)

Units
Orruk Brutes x 10 (360)
Orruk Brutes x 10 (360)
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
Orruk Gore Gruntas x 3 (180)
Orruk Ardboys x 20 (360)

Behemoths

War Machines

Batallions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 1960/2000

I feel that you are neglecting one of the strongest synergies with ironjawz. War chanters. I'd drop one megaboss for a shaman and goregruntas for 3 warchanter. Or 2 warchanters and another ironfist for another artifact.  

The +1 to hit can stack, so you can get the claw hitting on 2+ which gives you much better odds of getting the 2 rend d3 damage  through. And the gorchopa as well. 

As much of a ****** child that the shaman is, I feel he is a must include. An example from my last game. 

I got charged by my opponent ironjawz army turn one. I knew it was going to happen so I put stuff in cover on my turn, some deadly etc.

He charge my 10 man unit of brutes with goregruntas and my 5 man unit of brutes with Gordrakk. Due to clever wound allocation he had one grunta left with two wounds locking me in combat and his Gordrakk killed the 5 brutes but was exposed on my flank. 

I won priority, but my unit that could one shot Gordrakk was locked in combat. If it goes to his turn, he charges my 10 brutes and kills them leaving me in quite the predicament. 

I cast arcane bolt to kill the last grunta, move my brutes, charge Gordrakk and kill him outright in turn 2. 

We have no shooting, so we really need the shaman for things like this. 

Turn 1 I rolled double 1 to cast mystic shield killing 1 ardboys and double 5 for arcane bolt turn 2 dealing a wound to my warchanter. Still worth his 120 points in that game. 

Sorry for the wall of text guys.  

[Sadysaneto]

My two cents as an ironjawz player:

Brutes should be on units of 5, their bravery sucks.

Megaboss goes with brutes.

Arboys get 3 attacks each and 1+ on hit (3/3/-1/1) as long as the leader is alive. with banner they get +2 on bravery and can really hold their own. They also get +2 on charges with musicians. They are a solid unit.

Grimgor and big boss are ironjawz. Stick one or both with the boyz.

Weirnob shamans are not efficient.

Gordrakk is only for 2500+ pts.

Gordrakk was born to run with formations. Ironfist is cheap, broad and delicious with him.

Gore gruntas are really hard to put down. 5 wounds and 7 bravery is a pretty decent combo. They might not bring the pain, but are tanky as hell.

Warchanters should be you filler unit of choice.

[Sneak]

rough list with everyones input

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (140)
- General
- Trait: Ravager
- Artefact: Talisman of Protection
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Black Orc Big Boss (100)
- Deff Choppas

Units
Orruk Brutes x 10 (360)
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)
Orruk Gore Gruntas x 3 (180)
Orruk Ardboys x 20 (360)
Orruk Brutes x 5 (180)

Behemoths

War Machines

Batallions
Ironfist (60)

Total: 1980/2000