Death vs kunnin rukk

[LJ26]

Hey guys I had a quick question, seeing as death has very little ranged attacks I was wondering how you guys "snipe" da boss or deal with the 80 wound block of arrow boys? I don't want to use TK since it's been discontinued and the aesthetic doesn't match the rest of the undead. Any personal experiences? 

[deynon]

6 minutes ago, LJ26 said:

Hey guys I had a quick question, seeing as death has very little ranged attacks I was wondering how you guys "snipe" da boss or deal with the 80 wound block of arrow boys? I don't want to use TK since it's been discontinued and the aesthetic doesn't match the rest of the undead. Any personal experiences? 

I have zombie dragon and terrorgheist and I valuating id adding skeleton archers. Eventually you have also access to banshee and flyers.

Sincerly I haven't found them yet cause where I live almost no one use them, there are too many skavens and free armies so they don't do quite good.

Moreover it would be change based on the mission how to approach them.

[discoking]

I've done well with my all Soulblight army against my mates Bonesplittaz.

[LJ26]

29 minutes ago, deynon said:

I have zombie dragon and terrorgheist and I valuating id adding skeleton archers. Eventually you have also access to banshee and flyers.

Sincerly I haven't found them yet cause where I live almost no one use them, there are too many skavens and free armies so they don't do quite good.

Moreover it would be change based on the mission how to approach them.

I currently only have the king vlagorachus box which I made into GKoZD, all horrors, and a mourngul.  the mourngul and 20 ghouls got shot to death his 1st turn. my cousin plays kunnin rukk mixed with BCR. Only thing that saved me was that the meteors landed on the other side of the table where I had ghoul patrol ghouls set up

[LJ26]

3 minutes ago, discoking said:

I've done well with my all Soulblight army against my mates Bonesplittaz.

Do you staight up engage with all the power units you have? 

[deynon]

5 minutes ago, LJ26 said:

I currently only have the king vlagorachus box which I made into GKoZD, all horrors, and a mourngul.  the mourngul and 20 ghouls got shot to death his 1st turn. my cousin plays kunnin rukk mixed with BCR. Only thing that saved me was that the meteors landed on the other side of the table where I had ghoul patrol ghouls set up

If you have the Ghoul Patorl and you start you have to try to bring more devastation avalaible to his lines immediately, so use the rules of the ghouls to bring immediately damage to his units (even if not to those models immediately they anyway occupy space so if he wants to prevent a lot of damage it has to decide which unit to shoot. Ok you have to do 9" to charge, but if you press him immediately he doesn't have a lot of options.

Moreover cause you play the GKoZD you can also decide for such a match to forfeit security and chooce as manufact for him the Shadow Cloak and the red fury as power so that you can immediately create a hole in his line moving, with the cloak closer, moving again to bring yourself within 9". Then breath on it (so you reducre the amount of models he have in one of such units and then assault and with the red fury you can even ammass again and inflict more bleeding to that unit. Obvioulsy the support of the other part of  your army, the distribution on the filed and so on is important.

And if instead he start it's almost the same only that he lose the first round of fire.

Moreover you can use the summon a courtier and cast a spell that is really brutal in amplyfing the damage to it's units. It's a type of going all out ok, but it can pay back if good syncronized.

Obviously we are talking with the "ifs" there are a lot of factors one on the field that can change the results.

[LJ26]

47 minutes ago, deynon said:

If you have the Ghoul Patorl and you start you have to try to bring more devastation avalaible to his lines immediately, so use the rules of the ghouls to bring immediately damage to his units (even if not to those models immediately they anyway occupy space so if he wants to prevent a lot of damage it has to decide which unit to shoot. Ok you have to do 9" to charge, but if you press him immediately he doesn't have a lot of options.

Moreover cause you play the GKoZD you can also decide for such a match to forfeit security and chooce as manufact for him the Shadow Cloak and the red fury as power so that you can immediately create a hole in his line moving, with the cloak closer, moving again to bring yourself within 9". Then breath on it (so you reducre the amount of models he have in one of such units and then assault and with the red fury you can even ammass again and inflict more bleeding to that unit. Obvioulsy the support of the other part of  your army, the distribution on the filed and so on is important.

And if instead he start it's almost the same only that he lose the first round of fire.

Moreover you can use the summon a courtier and cast a spell that is really brutal in amplyfing the damage to it's units. It's a type of going all out ok, but it can pay back if good syncronized.

Obviously we are talking with the "ifs" there are a lot of factors one on the field that can change the results.

Thank you very much! I was hoping to get a reply with some real game strategic advice. I will certainly have to try this

[deynon]

Just now, LJ26 said:

Thank you very much! I was hoping to get a reply with some real game strategic advice. I will certainly have to try this

You can even consider to give him the first turn if you win the dice, but it's anyay risky, and so you can point to try to have two turns consecutives to try.

Obviously all these suggestions are merely based on knowing really a little bit of both army, nothing about the field and so on. It's totally fantawarhammer, or FantaAoS (urk..it seems the spot for a new beverage said so^^). So try if you see it can be helpful, but valuate if and when can be useful to you, in any case such a massive attack can have serious backslash and the only one ho can judge the feasability of the strategy at the end is always you. And you still have an opponent  that can change the progressing.

 

[LJ26]

I'll try it out next time we play. If it doesn't work what's the worst that can happen lol? I definitely have to get a second king box to run a GKoT next to my ZD

[discoking]

1 hour ago, LJ26 said:

Do you staight up engage with all the power units you have? 

As Denyon said above it's hard to give advice really without knowing the battlefield and who gets 1st turn etc.That said as an all Soulblight army there is only the orruks with bows,the big stabbas and the savage boss that pose any threat to the army.The bows due to numbers,the boss and stabbas due to rend and damage,everything else just can't really hurt the army in combat.

Use the battlefield to your advantage by using damned and mystical on your units at every opportunity,VLoZD with cloak of myst and shadows and red fury is a true monster and lets you get the characters and finally bat swarms are lush and can really help reduce the numbers of attacks with a bow.

[LJ26]

Just now, discoking said:

As Denyon said above it's hard to give advice really without knowing the battlefield and who gets 1st turn etc.That said as an all Soulblight army there is only the orruks with bows,the big stabbas and the savage boss that pose any threat to the army.The bows due to numbers,the boss and stabbas due to rend and damage,everything else just can't really hurt the army in combat.

Use the battlefield to your advantage by using damned and mystical on your units at every opportunity,VLoZD with cloak of myst and shadows and red fury is a true monster and lets you get the characters and finally bat swarms are lush and can really help reduce the numbers of attacks with a bow.

Does the minus 1 to shooting from the bats stack per unit or not? 

[discoking]

Just now, LJ26 said:

Does the minus 1 to shooting from the bats stack per unit or not? 

No

[deynon]

I'll try it out next time we play. If it doesn't work what's the worst that can happen lol? I definitely have to get a second king box to run a GKoT next to my ZD

Ahha, I play them both usually^^ really good approach:always fight never surrender and if you die... simply come back^^

Inviato dal mio Nexus 5X utilizzando Tapatalk

[Dave Fraser]

14 hours ago, deynon said:

You can even consider to give him the first turn if you win the dice, but it's anyay risky, and so you can point to try to have two turns consecutives to try.

 

Umm the first turn isn't a dice roll, it's whoever finishes deploying first decides, and the Bonesplitters army can often be only a couple of drops due to using good formations so usually they decide.  That said your T1 reaction could be cast a couple of mystic shields and then don't move anything into range.  But then the Orruk player can always do the double move a unit spell on his archers, then shoot if they get it all right and still be able to shoot you anyway.

Equally I don't see rushing them as a particularly great option in some circumstances.  A good player will have the archers behind a shield unit or two so you can't get them into combat T1.  The deployment I've seen is:

A- archer, B - regular savage Orruk, BS - Big Stabba, C - characters

     C   C   C

AAAAAAAAAAAAA

BS BS BS BS  BS

BBBBBBBBBBBBBB

If you rush them you can kill a unit of regular savage orruks at the front (but that's still often enough 40 wounds and only 200pts) but not get at the value targets.

I've not got a clue what the best option with death is at that point.  If you can get 2 waves of very hitty units you can possibly get into the savages, otherwise you're looking to get something over the top and into those characters to switch off all the 'stuff' they do.

[Nico]

If not using TK, then probably just get a 12 man unit of Crypt Horrors, make one of them your general, give it Ruler of the Night, then have the GKoTG cast the 5+ ward save spell on it and another Ghoul King cast Mystic Shield on them. The 4+, 5++, 5++ should reduce the hundreds of shots of damage to tolerable levels. Once they get in the lack of rend of the Horrors isn't a problem against Bonesplitterz.

[Countmoore]

18 hours ago, LJ26 said:

Any personal experiences? 

Just take a good book when it's not your turn! ;-)

Don't think we do too bad overall with a good amount of survivability and fast options (cloak vamp, summoning etc) but a double turn against you is horrific and I have debated the coven throne as general to help counter that somewhat though at the loss of red fury on the vamp.

Other than tediuming you to death the list isn't unbeatable by a long shot.

[Nico]

Just take Nagash and a Mourngul. Nagash casts mystic shield on the Mourngul and then sits in the corner. The Mourngul then has a 35/36 save against the bows. Once he gets into contact with them and knocks -2 off their hit rolls, Nagash can come out to play.

[deynon]

1 hour ago, Dave Fraser said:

Umm the first turn isn't a dice roll, it's whoever finishes deploying first decides, and the Bonesplitters army can often be only a couple of drops due to using good formations so usually they decide.  That said your T1 reaction could be cast a couple of mystic shields and then don't move anything into range.  But then the Orruk player can always do the double move a unit spell on his archers, then shoot if they get it all right and still be able to shoot you anyway.

Equally I don't see rushing them as a particularly great option in some circumstances.  A good player will have the archers behind a shield unit or two so you can't get them into combat T1.  The deployment I've seen is:

A- archer, B - regular savage Orruk, BS - Big Stabba, C - characters

     C   C   C

AAAAAAAAAAAAA

BS BS BS BS  BS

BBBBBBBBBBBBBB

If you rush them you can kill a unit of regular savage orruks at the front (but that's still often enough 40 wounds and only 200pts) but not get at the value targets.

I've not got a clue what the best option with death is at that point.  If you can get 2 waves of very hitty units you can possibly get into the savages, otherwise you're looking to get something over the top and into those characters to switch off all the 'stuff' they do.

No. Who fiish deploying first can choose. And considering the amount of unit kept outside...The undead player win that way, so he can choose if start or give the opponent the first turn.

Couple of Mistic shelds? Impossible, it can be cast only once each turn and once attempt at it.

Your idea of deplyment is correct in a plane plain...I'm really used to such things and sincerly it's not so. That unit has to see to shot. And the protection unit is massacred before giving space for the assault launch.

Moreover if that unit deply as you said it block the possibilità of advance of the opponent unit. The mage has to cast succefully the magkc (and there is only an attempt avalaible).

It's not so bad as you think and also cause it I said that there are too few information.

[nuttyknatty]

Reading this thread with interest as I'm playing against the Kunnin Ruk next week with my FEC.

Sadly I don't have either of the big flyers in my list, but do have the Ghoul Patrol, although the advantages of bringing those guys on in any really threatening positions can be easily neutered with canny deployment by my opponent.

I fear for my poor undead!

 

[TerrorPenguin]

Doesn't the formation require being within x of the war boss? Could you not cloak of mist and shadows or fly (more risky I get as it will take a couple of turns to get there) or ghoul patrol into the back like and try and assassinate the war boss? 

Understand it's not as easy as saying 'assassinate the war boss' but is that a viable strategy? 

[KHHaunts]

If i need to take out something at a distance or atleat tying it up i might consider summoning. perhaps with a cairn wraith or two to lay into the large units.

[nuttyknatty]

My new tactic is going to be fielding 2 Zombie Dragons and 2 Terrorgheists with one of these beasts ridden by my AGK general.

He'll have the Cloak and Red Fury, the other three will be in the Royal Menagerie, so a reasonable chance to get 3 or 4 of them into combat turn 1. Get them all rerolling wounds with the AGK's spell.

In my head, these four will destroy all that they touch!

In reality, one will get killed by shooting turn 1, two others will fail their charges, and the other will whiff their attacks! But, and this is one of the things that I love about AoS, it has the potential to be awesome - for a bit.

 

[LJ26]

1 minute ago, The Nameless One said:

In reality, one will get killed by shooting turn 1, two others will fail their charges, and the other will whiff their attacks! But, and this is one of the things that I love about AoS, it has the potential to be awesome - for a bit.

 

Lol so true, it never works out like it did in my head or works out great but not how I had planned it