4th Edition Difficulty Poll

[Gitzdee]

I am wondering what people think about the difficulty of AoS and what they think should be the difficulty for 4th edition. 

I think 3rd was fine in a lot of ways but some rules made it needlessly complicated. I dont like bookkeeping much and it overcomplicates the game for little reward. I would like to drop command abilities, battle tactics and grand strategies from the core rules. Imho they should just be printed on the warscrolls and battleplans. They should make ghb for those who want a more competative game.

I would like more rules for character customization. Whfb was great at this and was a real fun addition to the game imho.

I also would like some more keywords on abilities. It makes for less reading on warscrolls and less debate on what a rule does. Mtg is a great example of this. I can look at a card for a second and know what it does.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Gitzdee

[Chikout]

This is why I don't envy gw designers. 

[Malakithe]

I know a lot of people dont like it but im actually liking how 40k 10th is going, rules wise, ease of use wise. Index era is whatever. People are too focused on indexes being bad/good and not looking at the overall game.

I didnt like AoS 3.0 at all. The irony of 40k taking ideas from AoS then resetting only for AoS to be more bloated and far more complex is not lost on me. Aside from the PL part 40k list building is super easy and fairly quick (for now). I dont like like anything about AoS list building or gameplay. All these actions, BTs, trying to shuffle units into a bunch of battalions that are largely meaningless, season abilities and battalions to keep track of. Then most of AoS warscrolls are super bland and not exciting or fun to use. Im siiiiiick of 'once per battle' garbage abilities and 'wholly within' can gtfo. 40k doesnt have issues with 'within' vs 'wholly within'. Even the new 40k app is better then the AoS app.

Ive personally also never liked how AoS is pointed vs 40k units. I would be okay with a hard reset to make things less wordy, less bloaty, easier to use.

[Tonhel]

I am in for a hard reset, but they don't have to make it simplier.

I still want a lot of variety. Imo they should start using universal rules (I think 40K 10th edition has it?). I.e Hatred, Frenzy, Eternal hatred and so. ;-). In a while everybody knows those rules. Add atleast toughness and strength to warscroll. Toughness combined with amount of wounds could make monsters more durable and scary, certainly when faced against low strength units. Instead of monstrous rampage just give them the Stomp special rule. Or Stomp (D3) - Trample (D6) and  at it to the end of the combat phase.

Lol, It will probably not be for everybody but add the Toughness value in the same place where wounds, bravery, move and save is.

Than i.e for Bloodreavers change the Warscroll to this:

Move 6", Wounds 1, Toughness 3, Save 6+, Bravery 5.

• Reaver blades: Range 1", 3 Attacks, To Hit 4+, Strength 3, Rend -, Damage 1.
• Meatripper Axe: Range 1", 1 Attack, To Hit 4+, Strength 5, Rend -2, Damage 2.

Universal Special Rule: Bloodlust: When charging add +1 to the To Hit Roll.

Command options for every unit the same. +1 attack champion, standard +1 bravery. Musician +1 charge distance.

Keywords: Khorne, Mortal, Infantry.

Lol, atleast to me this seems cool 😅

I would also remove the weapons range value and just make it so that every model in the unit can attack. Instead of measuring the weapon melee range with all the discussing included with it.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Tonhel

[Beliman]

I voted easier, but not simple.

Just make the game easier to play, easier to understand, easier to follow the rules, etc.

To me, that is less layer of rules and better Core Rules. I don't care about USR or SvsT. But the rules should be completely tied and 100% compatible with battletomes and warscrolls. No more "breaking the rules" to make a unit or a battletome special, no more "they throw 30 mortal wounds and my army doesn't have ward bubbles", "ranged attacks are overpoweted because they ignore 50% of defense abilities", "Coalition units disappeared from new battletomes because GW changed their minds in the middle of an edition", etc... 

Main Core Rules should give enough tools to write battletomes and warscrolls without being bland and boring.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Beliman

[Tonhel]

16 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I voted easier, but not simple.

Just make the game easier to play, easier to understand, easier to follow the rules, etc.

To me, that is less layer of rules and better Core Rules. I don't care about USR or SvsT. But the rules should be completely tied and 100% compatible with battletomes and warscrolls. No more "breaking the rules" to make a unit or a battletome special, no more "they throw 30 mortal wounds and my army doesn't have ward bubbles", "ranged attacks are overpoweted because they ignore 50% of defense abilities", "Coalition units disappeared from new battletomes because GW changed their minds in the middle of an edition", etc... 

Main Core Rules should give enough tools to write battletomes and warscrolls without being bland and boring.

I say add a table of special rules to the core book and those should be used for all the warscrolls. Each battletome can have 1 Army unique rule and 1 unique rule per sub-faction, a nice list of army specific artefacts. I wouldn't mind seeing it split up in the same categories as Warhammer had, A couple of unique spells, but preferable there is a big list of spells added to the core book. Same with prayers. Remove endless spells. Just add spell types like magic missile / Curse / Augment or something like that.

Also the list of available keywords could be race / Chaos God / infantry / cavalry / monster (Stomp D3 or Trample D6) / monstrous cavalry (Stomp 1), Flying, Mortal/ Daemon/ Undead/ Magical/ hero / Behemoth. So again universal and added to the core book.

So i.e the Bloodcrusher keywords would be Khorne / Monstrous Cavalry / Daemon and Might Skullcrushers would be Khorne / Monstrous Cavalry / Mortal. The warscroll ability murderous charge is replaced with the keyword Monstrous cavalry.

Than add to the warscroll also the USR Bloodlust as I mentioned with the Bloodreavers.

So you and the opponent knows, that Mighty Skullcrushers has +1 to hit when charging and at the end of the combat phase it had 1 stomp attack. Also just create Chaos armour (For all Chaos battletomes, that gives a 5+ ward) and a shield as USR improves the normal save with 1. So a shield is for each battletome and unit the same.

I have chose the stomp attack at the end of the close combat phase, but you can keep it at the end of the charge phase. I have no idea what is best.

Also it would be nice to remove Within or Wholly Within X range. Just give heroes of the same movement value the option to join units and when joined the unit receives that bonus and at the start of the movement phase and not in combat. The hero can chose to move out of the unit / join another unit.

Lol, I will now stop my ramblings as it probably opens a whole new can of worms. 😅

[Gitzdee]

7 minutes ago, Tonhel said:

I say add a table of special rules to the core book and those should be used for all the warscrolls. Each battletome can have 1 Army unique rule and 1 unique rule per sub-faction, a nice list of army specific artefacts. I wouldn't mind seeing it split up in the same categories as Warhammer had, A couple of unique spells, but preferable there is a big list of spells added to the core book. Same with prayers. Remove endless spells. Just add spell types like magic missile / Curse / Augment or something like that.

Also the list of available keywords could be race / Chaos God / infantry / cavalry / monster (Stomp D3 or Trample D6) / monstrous cavalry (Stomp 1), Flying, Mortal/ Daemon/ Undead/ Magical/ hero / Behemoth. So again universal and added to the core book.

So i.e the Bloodcrusher keywords would be Khorne / Monstrous Cavalry / Daemon and Might Skullcrushers would be Khorne / Monstrous Cavalry / Mortal. The warscroll ability murderous charge is replaced with the keyword Monstrous cavalry.

Than add to the warscroll also the USR Bloodlust as I mentioned with the Bloodreavers.

So you and the opponent knows, that Mighty Skullcrushers has +1 to hit when charging and at the end of the combat phase it had 1 stomp attack. Also just create Chaos armour (For all Chaos battletomes, that gives a 5+ ward) and a shield as USR improves the normal save with 1. So a shield is for each battletome and unit the same.

I have chose the stomp attack at the end of the close combat phase, but you can keep it at the end of the charge phase. I have no idea what is best.

Also it would be nice to remove Within or Wholly Within X range. Just give heroes of the same movement value the option to join units and when joined the unit receives that bonus and at the start of the movement phase and not in combat. The hero can chose to move out of the unit / join another unit.

Lol, I will now stop my ramblings as it probably opens a whole new can of worms. 😅

I agree with the keywords. Makes for easier reading and understanding a warscroll. I still can remember whfb keywords, cant remember whats on 3.0 warscrolls. Maybe im just getting old XD.

[Doko]

i would preffer easier,many new players leave the game after the first game.

 

have to remember each phase when get cp or not,remember the cp,remember the hero actions,remember the monsters actions,think about the battle tactics from general and also in the battletome etc

they say and with reason that they need more time reading rules that playing the game.

 

to me second edition or even late first was the best.

i would be happy if they remove the cp system,is tedious have to remember when get cp and when not,also have to use tools to know how many we have,also the cp are umbalanced and do harder to balance armys,redeploy is a many time lost doing longer the games,defensive fire is somethimg broken that dont must stay,rally was oberpower get free models but was nerfed so hard that rigth now is almost useless,the all out attack make armys with heroes or skill to give hit obsolete and the same with all out defense.

in general the game would be faster,easier and more balanced without the cp sistem.

also remove every battle tactics from each battletome,first is the biggest factor of umbalance betwen armys rigth now(per example sc have the worst tactics and they are at the botton while vampires have the best and they are top) and second take time have to read tactcs from two diferent books at the same time.

remove every wholy withing aura and only put a rule that these heroes can join to a unit and give them that buff.

i know many people love hard,or tedious games,but i left 40k and i started aos at 0.0 because was very fun and got extress out,only get to melle and figth without have to think each turn and each phase about 999999 options

[Gitzdee]

AoS could learn a thing or 2 from Warcry. Its a fun fast paced game. No downtime, clear rules, fun random game setup, easy to teach new people. Its a good example of an easier game thats not less fun to play. I actually get to play more games and that results in my minis that i put a lot of effort in actually hitting the tabletop more often.

[Gitzdee]

GW employee when looking at this poll.