AoS 3.0 - Gloomspite GItz Discussion

[Ganigumo]

Got another game in with kings Gitz vs khorne on position over power, I took a pretty heavy double on t2 but managed to push through into his backline. Game was running a bit late so I didn't get to finish but it was looking like he'd be able to pull out a close win if we kept going.

Bounderz with a loonboss are phenomenal, but keeping him in range can be a bit of a challenge, even though I made him the general. 10 are more than enough to be your hammer in my experience.

I tried running 2x12 squig herds. I know the big strat at the moment is a big unit of 36, but being able to push multiple units forward to screen and cap objectives with the squigboss feels pretty good. I haven't had much luck with them damagewise, probably because you need to support them with jaws of mork and the squigboss mortals.

[Ganigumo]

I've got to lock in my list tomorrow, I find this new book tough to figure out though. This is what I'm brewing at the moment.
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
- Gittish Horde: King's Gitz
- Grand Strategy: Protect da Shrine!
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (160)*
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)*
- Artefact: Moonface Mommet
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
- Aspect of the Champion: Tunnel Master
Loonboss (85)*
- General
- Command Trait: The Clammy Hand
- Aspect of the Champion: Leadership of the Alpha
Squigboss with Gnasha-squig (80)**

Battleline
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (280)**
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Boingrot Bounderz (140)**
5 x Boingrot Bounderz (140)**
12 x Squig Herd (120)

Units
5 x Gobbapalooza (145)
- Spell1: Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance
6 x Sneaky Snufflers (110)
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)***
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)***
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)***

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Vanguard
***Galletian Sharpshooters

Additional Enhancements
Aspect of the Champion

Total: 1830 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 137
Drops: 13

In general I've been finding the points very awkward, a bunch of my tweaks end with lists that are like 80 points under, this one is only 45 which is probably fine for a triumph bid. I've been toying with a mangler, since the rampage lets you dive deep, but i'm already 45 points down, and fitting it in is wierd pointswise. I could fit the loonboss version by cutting 2 units of trolls, but then I've got the loonboss version which seems overcosted, and I still want clammy hand to take advantage of kings gitz and the MSU build I have going so he wouldn't be the general to take fight another day.

[Gitzdee]

Could run the 6x fellwaters + snufflers for a better anvil to round out the list?

[Vasshpit]

Has anyone had any experience with snarlfang riders?

[Ganigumo]

11 minutes ago, Vasshpit said:

Has anyone had any experience with snarlfang riders?

no, I've got mine primed but haven't gotten around to painting them or playing with them. I've been wondering if they pair well with fellwaters though. You can push the fellwaters up and have the snarlfangs stand 4-5 inches behind and pile in after the troggs take a hit and unleash hell on whatever charged them which will help snarlfangs with the lack of rend. Snarlfangs also have 2" reach on the jaw attack for some reason, so you can reinforce them.

1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:

Could run the 6x fellwaters + snufflers for a better anvil to round out the list?

That's a good callout, I might do that since it'll give me something that really appreciates the snuffler buff.

[Ganigumo]

This is what I ended up submitting
 

Quote

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
- Gittish Horde: King's Gitz
- Grand Strategy: Protect da Shrine!
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Loonboss (85)*
- General
- Command Trait: The Clammy Hand
- Aspect of the Champion: Leadership of the Alpha
Skragrott, The Loonking (160)*
Squigboss with Gnasha-squig (80)*
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)**
- Artefact: Moonface Mommet
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
- Aspect of the Champion: Tunnel Master

Battleline
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (280)**
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Boingrot Bounderz (140)**
5 x Boingrot Bounderz (140)**
10 x Squig Hoppers (180)*

Units
6 x Sneaky Snufflers (110)
5 x Gobbapalooza (145)***
- Spell1: Lore of the Moonclans: Itchy Nuisance
6 x Fellwater Troggoths (320)***
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Rockgut Troggoths (160)***

Core Battalions
*Warlord
**Vanguard
***Galletian Sharpshooters

Total: 1890 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 133
Drops: 12
 

I'm a little worried about castle build matchups, but we'll see how it goes. I need to try out some manglers when I get a chance too.

[Ganigumo]

Ended up going 2-3.

Game 1 I got absolutely smashed by a great player with a heavy shooting slaanesh list with belakor. 50 blissbarbs + 5 blissbarb seekers, triple AoA, triple run 6 & shoot, tons of CP and a double turn on t2. I almost killed belakor t1, but failed by 2 damage, and he used the double to do tons of shooting, but also to get belakor into my shrine to smash it.

Game 2 was vs idoneth. Threw buffed up hoppers at 20 reavers, did 1 damage and pinned him in a little. T2 I took some objectives and small units, but couldn't get into any important pieces. Then on his turn he rushed forward and used an ability to fight with 3 things after. Then he rolled the double and fought first armywide. I probably should've tried to be more aggressive on t1/t2 to cripple him before then.

Game 3 was vs a super cool narrative dispossed army with gotrek, i got into his irondrakes early and snowballed from there for a win.

Game 4 was vs nurgle. I got a super buffed unit of bounderz into him t1 for a good start, then we got into a big brawl. It felt pretty close but the points weren't, it was on jaws of gallet and he struggled to keep the edge objectives so I won handily on points.

Game 5 loss vs KO. Incredibly close game, my bounderz failed the t1 alpha, but tanked the shooting phase denying my opponents tactic. Outside of that I got all the tactics and objective points on my turns, but I failed to deny his grand strat and he blocked mine so I lost by a single point.

 

It was nice to really get some games in with the new book. My general choice was a mistake. I was trying to do too much with him between AoA and clammy hand, it was rare that the bubbles lined up, although whenever he did AoA the bounderz it was pretty good. Protect da shrine isn't always easy, its very much a win-more that can be tough in close games, I can see why the dankhold with follow da moon is so popular. The rockguts didn't do much, they usually just covered a flank or side objective. In retrospect a sloggoth would've done much of the same while also handing out +1 to hit.

I definitely made some mistakes my first few games too. I eventually figured out that holding back the 10 man bounderz for later as a counter charge was a mistake, since the difference in output is very noticeable and they hit like noodles if caught flat footed.

The choice between bounderz and hoppers is still tough. Hoppers lose so much output, but that extra 3" move makes those alpha charges so much easier, and unless you're low drop you really need that t1 threat, it feels like a good balance. +3" move on the squigboss was very clutch, I kind of wish the loonboss on squig would get it back.

The playstyle feels a lot different. We've still got the same board control tools, but while our scrolls are better it really feels like we need to superstack buffs for our units to get where we need them. Like Unless I got the trolls to at least +2 save they still felt squishy, and unless the bounderz were charging with at least all out attack they tended to do very little. We can actually get the units there which feels good, but good players, especially with access to mobility and/or shooting, can target our support pieces or things other than the stacked up unit, and then things tend to get tough.

I don't think I like skragrott after playing with him though. I think he's pretty much auto include, and he's fantastic, but his performance varied wildly between games. The command points are great, the moon aura was fine, it rarely mattered though, between being able to control it and the shrine, and +1 to cast is just enough to abuse weak magic armies, but not enough to do much vs anyone with good bonuses. I often consider cutting him, but there really isn't an alternative. 

The difference between 0-1 decent tactics (like my kruleboyz) and 2-3 is massive though, its hard to even explain the difference in options.

Overall the book felt pretty fair to me, all the catastrophizing seems like an exaggeration, although some of the BTs and follow da moon are probably too easy, but thats an issue with army specific BTs and GSs generally.

[Gitzdee]

2 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

Ended up going 2-3.

Game 1 I got absolutely smashed by a great player with a heavy shooting slaanesh list with belakor. 50 blissbarbs + 5 blissbarb seekers, triple AoA, triple run 6 & shoot, tons of CP and a double turn on t2. I almost killed belakor t1, but failed by 2 damage, and he used the double to do tons of shooting, but also to get belakor into my shrine to smash it.

Game 2 was vs idoneth. Threw buffed up hoppers at 20 reavers, did 1 damage and pinned him in a little. T2 I took some objectives and small units, but couldn't get into any important pieces. Then on his turn he rushed forward and used an ability to fight with 3 things after. Then he rolled the double and fought first armywide. I probably should've tried to be more aggressive on t1/t2 to cripple him before then.

Game 3 was vs a super cool narrative dispossed army with gotrek, i got into his irondrakes early and snowballed from there for a win.

Game 4 was vs nurgle. I got a super buffed unit of bounderz into him t1 for a good start, then we got into a big brawl. It felt pretty close but the points weren't, it was on jaws of gallet and he struggled to keep the edge objectives so I won handily on points.

Game 5 loss vs KO. Incredibly close game, my bounderz failed the t1 alpha, but tanked the shooting phase denying my opponents tactic. Outside of that I got all the tactics and objective points on my turns, but I failed to deny his grand strat and he blocked mine so I lost by a single point.

 

It was nice to really get some games in with the new book. My general choice was a mistake. I was trying to do too much with him between AoA and clammy hand, it was rare that the bubbles lined up, although whenever he did AoA the bounderz it was pretty good. Protect da shrine isn't always easy, its very much a win-more that can be tough in close games, I can see why the dankhold with follow da moon is so popular. The rockguts didn't do much, they usually just covered a flank or side objective. In retrospect a sloggoth would've done much of the same while also handing out +1 to hit.

I definitely made some mistakes my first few games too. I eventually figured out that holding back the 10 man bounderz for later as a counter charge was a mistake, since the difference in output is very noticeable and they hit like noodles if caught flat footed.

The choice between bounderz and hoppers is still tough. Hoppers lose so much output, but that extra 3" move makes those alpha charges so much easier, and unless you're low drop you really need that t1 threat, it feels like a good balance. +3" move on the squigboss was very clutch, I kind of wish the loonboss on squig would get it back.

The playstyle feels a lot different. We've still got the same board control tools, but while our scrolls are better it really feels like we need to superstack buffs for our units to get where we need them. Like Unless I got the trolls to at least +2 save they still felt squishy, and unless the bounderz were charging with at least all out attack they tended to do very little. We can actually get the units there which feels good, but good players, especially with access to mobility and/or shooting, can target our support pieces or things other than the stacked up unit, and then things tend to get tough.

I don't think I like skragrott after playing with him though. I think he's pretty much auto include, and he's fantastic, but his performance varied wildly between games. The command points are great, the moon aura was fine, it rarely mattered though, between being able to control it and the shrine, and +1 to cast is just enough to abuse weak magic armies, but not enough to do much vs anyone with good bonuses. I often consider cutting him, but there really isn't an alternative. 

The difference between 0-1 decent tactics (like my kruleboyz) and 2-3 is massive though, its hard to even explain the difference in options.

Overall the book felt pretty fair to me, all the catastrophizing seems like an exaggeration, although some of the BTs and follow da moon are probably too easy, but thats an issue with army specific BTs and GSs generally.

Thanks for sharing. Would u run another mixed list next time or go heavy on squigs?

[Ganigumo]

7 hours ago, Gitzdee said:

Thanks for sharing. Would u run another mixed list next time or go heavy on squigs?

I need to play a bit more with herds and manglers, but next time I'd probably still bring a mixed list since I'd run a troggboss general for the easy grand strategy.

[Sinfullyvannila]

On 4/6/2023 at 7:27 AM, DerZauberer said:

Huh, its 210 now. Still an auto include in my books.

I got in an argument with someone because they thought he was too fragile for his points, and I told him Kairos was worse at his cost without providing nearly as much utility and he's basically always been an alt-staple. I honestly think Skgraggy is probably worth it at Kairos' price point even without an extra spell.

Honestly our battleline is cheap enough that we can afford an utility anchor at any cost regardless.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Sinfullyvannila

[Ganigumo]

9 minutes ago, Sinfullyvannila said:

I got in an argument with someone because they thought he was too fragile for his points, and I told him Kairos was worse at his cost without providing nearly as much utility and he's basically always been an alt-staple. I honestly think Skgraggy is probably worth it at Kairos' price point even without an extra spell.

Honestly our battleline is cheap enough that we can afford an utility anchor at any cost regardless.

I think at ~400 points you'd at least consider dropping him to fit in more stuff, but he would still probably be playable.

I've found him to always be good, but still be inconsistent. In a game against a weak magic army he feels incredible, and horribly undercosted, but against armies with solid magic he's still worth the points, thanks to the CPs and moon control, and possibly moon aura depending on your list.

He's honestly a little frustrating as an auto-include, because we just can't get those tools elsewhere, and trying to skimp and sub him out just leaves you with something that performs worse for nearly the same points (Moon + shaman for moon aura, Webspinner on arachnarok for casting, double fungoid for CP, etc).

He's a warscroll that is going to be problematic at any cost I think.

[Gitzdee]

"A ranting Rabble-Rowza can gather great hordes of agitated cave-critters that flood from the tunnels, kickstarting a deluge of destruction that spells doom for all in its path."

So what do we think this thing will be? I love the look of this model. 

I hope it can put Troggoths into a frenzy similar to the Mirebrute ability that deals D3 mortal wounds to self and boosts the attack by 2 for each mortal wound. 

The thing that worries me a bit is the fact that he comes with a box full of squigs. We dont really need another support piece for those imho.

[Ganigumo]

Yeah I agree we didn't really need another moonclan/squig support hero. Maybe he specializes in command abilities? Although that makes the squig herd a bit of a weird inclusion in the box.

[Gitzdee]

Could use him as a squigboss i guess. Dont really like the other model much. I really do hope its more troggoth related though.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Gitzdee

[Vasshpit]

1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:

Could use him as a squigboss i guess. Dont really like the other model much. I really do hope its more troggoth related though.

Would much rather have another actual trogg hero instead. 

[Gitzdee]

3 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Would much rather have another actual trogg hero instead. 

Yes i agree. I just really like this model and hope its any good. Hope we get a troggoth hero soon. Hopefully a shaman or priest type would be great.

[Vasshpit]

3 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Yes i agree. I just really like this model and hope its any good. Hope we get a troggoth hero soon. Hopefully a shaman or priest type would be great.

I'd love for the hag to make her appearance in this new narrative event coming up. It's a no brainer for geedubs. 

[Magnus The Blue]

Has anyone tried a Scuttleboss.  Looks really solid on paper.  Venom on all attacks means that under the light and with Really Nasty venom you get 8 attack that cause 4 mortals on 5+s.  10ish mortals from a 130 point units seems great (but does have to be your general).

[Ganigumo]

I've only played with it once so far, he failed a 5 inch charge and got destroyed by impact hits.

I think the big drawback is needing him to be your general. Clammy Hand is super strong, and so is having a troggboss general to score the GS so its tough to justify taking anything other than those two things for your general.

His output is pretty good though, its just a shame its pretty much the only hammer spiderfang have access to, and you need to give up a lot of power to take it.

[Gitzdee]

 

Found this list that placed first. Seems like a real fun list including Grinkraks Looncourt and a Sloggoth.

The Top Three AoS List

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
– Gittish Horde: Jaws of Mork
– Mortal Realm: Ghur
– Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
– Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Skragrott, The Loonking (210)*
Loonboss (85)**
– General
– Command Trait: The Clammy Hand
Grinkrak The Great (190)**
Squigboss with Gnasha-squig (100)**
Madcap Shaman (70)*
– Artefact: Moonface Mommet
– Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
– Aspect of the Champion: Tunnel Master

Battleline
36 x Squig Herd (390)**
– Reinforced x 2
40 x Moonclan Shootas (250)**
– Reinforced x 1
20 x Squig Hoppers (360)**
– Reinforced x 1

Units
5 x Gobbapalooza (160)**
– Spell1: Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork
6 x Grinkrak’s Looncourt (0)*
1 x Marshcrawla Sloggoth (150)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment

Total: 1965 / 2000

Edited July 6, 2023 by Gitzdee

[Magnus The Blue]

6 hours ago, Gitzdee said:

Found this list that placed first. Seems like a real fun list including Grinkraks Looncourt and a Sloggoth.

From the events I've seen this is currently the standard competitive Gitz loadout with some minor variation in heroes and battleline.

Grimkrak and Sloggoth are both standard and great value buff pieces. I'd be surprised in Grimkrak at least doesn't go up a few points.   The only major weakness of the list is your relying on two units (the Squigs) to do all the heavy lifting.  They are great and will be buffed to the nines but some armies will be able to screen and counter charge/shoot/magic them to oblivion.

[Gitzdee]

Some rough points changes. 

Cohenrency rules could be good for 6x trogg units. Wide fellwater screens with support maybe.

[Magnus The Blue]

5 minutes ago, Gitzdee said:

Some rough points changes. 

Cohenrency rules could be good for 6x trogg units. Wide fellwater screens with support maybe.

I'm thinking a line of Rockguts with a line of Fellwater just behind.  Very hard to charge into without being gutted.

[Ganigumo]

Yeah they might've gone a bit overboard with the nerfs here.
The squig herd changes were welcome, but maybe the mortals should just be on 4s.
Jaws of Mork were the ones overperforming too heavily, it would've been nice to just see a direct nerf to that instead of point increases on a bunch of units, maybe change it from +1 attack on the charge to +1 rend or something.

[Gitzdee]

Want to try this. Charging the mangler across the board for laughs first turn with the Rabble-Rowza, also made him more durable.

 - Army Faction: Gloomspite Gitz
     - Subfaction: Jaws of Mork
     - Grand Strategy: A Scheme for Every Occasion
LEADERS
Rabble-Rowza (100)
     - General
     - Command Traits: Heroic Stature
     - Artefacts of Power: The Clammy Cowl
BATTLELINE
Squig Hoppers (190)
Squig Herd (280)
BEHEMOTH
Mangler Squigs (260)
OTHER
Gobbapalooza (170)
     - Spells: The Hand of Gork
TOTAL POINTS: 1000/1000
Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

Edited July 7, 2023 by Gitzdee