Boltboyz or Killbow?

[Sleaky]

We wait years for some hard hitting shooters and two come once along at once!

I've had mixed success with both boltboyz and killbows. What are other peoples preferred option / optimal size units to be effective??

Edited November 16, 2021 by Sleaky

[broche]

you mean in a Kruleboyz list, or more a big waaagh?

In pure kruleboyz both are usefull. 

Boltboyz are much more versatile and stable (ie you'll get a consistent output of mortal/rend 1 each round)

Killbow are much more volatile and specialized. The damage output is really high agains monster. You can reduce the variance by including 2-3 of those. 

As a rule of thumb I would say include Boltboyz first, then complete with some killbow.

hope that help!

[Mutton]

Killbow is too random in most cases, even against your ideal targets. If you don't roll that initial 6 to hit, you still have to roll a 3+ to wound, then they get a save against it (and most big hero monsters you're targeting are going to be save stacking to give them a not-so-negligible chance of blocking that one hit), THEN you have to roll 5+'s to add to the damage. At any point in this sequence you could just get unlucky on a single roll and lose out on your 130 point unit doing anything that turn. Also, it sucks against normal infantry. If it was like 15-20 points cheaper, it could be worth it as a scare tactic.

Otherwise, boltboyz are just more reliable against all types of targets. I like them in 6's because if they get hit with anything you don't risk 360 points evaporating instantly.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Mutton

[Sleaky]

Thanks for the input. Useful advice. 😁

[Gitzdee]

Would any of these be worth it in a big waaagh list without all kinds of support?

[broche]

3 hours ago, Iksdee said:

Would any of these be worth it in a big waaagh list without all kinds of support?

I use x6 boltboys and 1 swampcalla shaman in Big waaagh. In my opinion they're almost an autopick in BW. Killbow is much more niche. Reason i would use it would be to fill the Artillery spot in Battle regiment to lower the drop for exemple. But you'll get much more value from boltboyz overall.

[Skreech Verminking]

22 hours ago, Mutton said:

Killbow is too random in most cases, even against your ideal targets. If you don't roll that initial 6 to hit, you still have to roll a 3+ to wound, then they get a save against it (and most big hero monsters you're targeting are going to be save stacking to give them a not-so-negligible chance of blocking that one hit), THEN you have to roll 5+'s to add to the damage. At any point in this sequence you could just get unlucky on a single roll and lose out on your 130 point unit doing anything that turn. Also, it sucks against normal infantry. If it was like 15-20 points cheaper, it could be worth it as a scare tactic.

Otherwise, boltboyz are just more reliable against all types of targets. I like them in 6's because if they get hit with anything you don't risk 360 points evaporating instantly.

They are still a good thread against the mega gargants.

3-4of them can really put out the hurt to such an army

[Gitzdee]

22 hours ago, broche said:

I use x6 boltboys and 1 swampcalla shaman in Big waaagh. In my opinion they're almost an autopick in BW. Killbow is much more niche. Reason i would use it would be to fill the Artillery spot in Battle regiment to lower the drop for exemple. But you'll get much more value from boltboyz overall.

Isnt a Wurrgog Prophet a better pick over a Killbow to get rid of big things now for BW? Or Arrowboyz just because more bodies on the table? I am trying to justify buying these units but i cant find a really good reason at the moment. 2 units of boltboys and a shaman is a decent point sink.

[broche]

1 hour ago, Iksdee said:

Isnt a Wurrgog Prophet a better pick over a Killbow to get rid of big things now for BW? Or Arrowboyz just because more bodies on the table? I am trying to justify buying these units but i cant find a really good reason at the moment. 2 units of boltboys and a shaman is a decent point sink.

I use a Wurrgog as well. Wurgog doesn't really fill the same role. It's more a defensive mortal bomb. Boltboys provide long range output and overwatch. The two combined will give hardtime to any army to break your bunker. If they charge and kill your screen they are now sitting in front of a 16 mortal bomb, after taking 8 mortal from unleash hell.

20 Arrowboys will do a meager 10 damage (often with no rend) if you use a CP (6.67 without). Boltboy have mortal output (even without a shaman) and their 2+ base hit mean they can snipe small heros (with Shaman it get really consistent). But the true value here is really the overwatch (one of the reason i don't like arrowboys that much). Unleash hell on Arrowboys do negligable damage, while Boltboy can do 8-10 mortal when buffed by their Shaman. Having as much action in your opponent turn is what will separate good from great army in AoS3 as it make armies much more (one easy exemple is double turn mitigation) Boltboys give you this flexibility and is one the reason i would play Big waaagh over Ironjaw for exemple.

[Lucyferiusz]

21 hours ago, Iksdee said:

Isnt a Wurrgog Prophet a better pick over a Killbow to get rid of big things now for BW? Or Arrowboyz just because more bodies on the table? I am trying to justify buying these units but i cant find a really good reason at the moment. 2 units of boltboys and a shaman is a decent point sink.

Prophets have shorter range, and can't move before "shooting", but are just as swingy as Killbows. My Wurrgogs usually deal 6-7 mortals before killing themselves...

[PlasticCraic]

On 11/19/2021 at 10:31 PM, Lucyferiusz said:

Prophets have shorter range, and can't move before "shooting", but are just as swingy as Killbows. My Wurrgogs usually deal 6-7 mortals before killing themselves...

Even with the 4++ artefact?

[Lucyferiusz]

9 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Even with the 4++ artefact?

Yes

Although, I played only 4 games with them since the book came out, so I'm hoping for some average rolls in time 😉

[PlasticCraic]

Prophets are volatile by nature but I've had great success (and fun) with mine.  There is a huge drop off from the 4++ guy with artefact to the 6++ guy(s), and I do think you're going mainly for the fun factor from the second one onwards.  But that first one is awesome.

 

[broche]

12 hours ago, Lucyferiusz said:

Yes

Although, I played only 4 games with them since the book came out, so I'm hoping for some average rolls in time 😉

6-7 is awfully low (is average output is 16-17 with the 4++). As Plastic mentionned it's high variance so a 6-7 once in a while is bound to happen, but 4 game in a row it is quite unlikely.!

[Dahawi]

How are people getting the 4++? Is it a bonsplitterz artifact?

[Bobberto]

Yup - Glowin' Tattooz is a Bonesplitterz artifact that gives +2 to ward rolls, bringing the Warpaint (which Big Waaagh still gets) to a 4.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Bobberto