AoS 3rd - Idoneth Deepkin discussion

[Derek]

So I’m playing with the not 1 drop army lists,  trying the dhom-hain list idea.   No blender king this time around I’m also going for as many charge bonuses as I can get in the list,  currently I can get one unit a +4 to charge of if I run into a combat army I can get a +5 to charge turn 2,  if something like the khorne daemon prince does pop up in my meta again I can still manage the charge bonuses.   Anyways here’s the list 

 

 

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
    - Army Subfaction: Dhom-Hain
    - Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence

LEADER

Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
    - Artefacts: Armour of the Cythai

Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Sea (325)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Endless Sea Storm
    - Spells: Arcane Corrasion

Isharann Tidecaster (150)*
    - Artefacts: Rune of the Surging Gloomtide
    - Spells: Steed of Tides

Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Storm (355)**
    - Artefacts: Arcane Tome
    - Spells: Flaming Weapon

Battlemage (115)**

Lotann (115)**

BATTLELINE

2 x Namarti Thralls (390)***

1 x Namarti Thralls (260)***

Namarti Thralls (130)***

ENDLESS SPELL

Chronomantic Cogs (45)

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Command Entourage

**Command Entourage

***Hunters of the Heartlands

TOTAL POINTS: (1995/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

[Liquidsteel]

16 hours ago, Chronos said:

Had my first game in a while and first game with new IDK against my friend's Blade of Khorne. I took an Eel heavy list with King, Lotann, 6 Morsarr, 3 Morsarr, 20 Reavers, and 2x2 Sharks all in a one drop.

Quick synopsis, we were both pretty rusty, but his turn two he failed a re-rollable 9" charge with his 'Thirster which really hurt, although probably wouldn't have changed things too much. I took out about half his army on one side by the bottom of turn 2 using the King's ability, and won the roll off for turn three and he conceded. Lucky, but that was actually part of my gameplan: go one drop, give him first turn in the first two rounds and try for winning three.

My takeaways are pretty obvious: Blender King is ridiculous but very susceptible to mortal wounds and chip damage, Reavers do some really nice damage, they killed about 13 Blood Warriors in 1.5 turns including them getting charged, Sharks are nice damage but I didn't really get them into combat, and 6 Eels is just impossible to all get into combat effectively dropping their damage output.

I think going forward I may change things up and take more Namarti. 20 Reavers wil probably be a staple for me, they just add a nice element to keep my opponent honest. I'd also like to keep close to four Sharks. Need to get my Turtle painted up too and try it out.

I'm kind of leaning towards a lot of Vinny's conclusion in that IDK seem like a good shooting army with decent melee damage to sprinkle around. I'm also not 100% sure the King is an auto include, but I don't have enough games in to know for sure.

Two lists I may build towards without Eels that are similar but different Enclaves, please let me know what you think!

Nautilar: Blender King, Lotann, Leviadon, 20 Reavers, 20 Thralls, 3x1 Allopexes in a one drop.

Morphann: Soulrender, Lotann, 20 Reavers, 20 Thralls, 10 Thralls/Reavers, Leviadon, 2 Allopex, 1 Allopex, one drop, possible turn the Tides.

Both are 1960 or 2000 if I sub in the extra Reavers instead of Thralls.

I feel like the Nautilar list gives me three good hammers and the Sharks to harass, and a good amount of shooting.

The Morphann is interesting, especially flipping the Tides, it makes my opponent either wait for turn three to really engage and get shot, or if they do get into me turn two which seems to be when things start to go down, I've got my Namarti on probably 4+/5++, making it 3+ if needed and near the Turtle, and then bringing 4-6 back, with the ability to throw out another 5+ Ward if needed, pluuuuus getting a cover save in round one if alpha'd. Not that the Namarti become HGB of old, but could probably surprise an opponent and then get striking first probably on 3/2/-1/2.

What I'm not sure about is bringing in two Soulrenders. I worry it wouldn't be worth it but then again, bringing back 8-12 Namarti automatically over two units is pretty decent.

I'll have to get moving on my Turtle and get some games in.

 

Your Nautilar list is 6 drop, as Leviadon becomes battleline. But this is easily solved by making the Sharks a 2 and a 1.

I'm playing Mor'phann this weekend in a teams tournament, have been busy painting up the extra Thralls I need just in time. Not playing flip tide as haven't practiced with it yet, been on the blender king train. Also borrowing a friends boat to play with the double shipwreck, hopefully don't mess up too much with placing it.

I do think I'll go for some flip tide lists after this weekend to check it out.

[Derek]

Been awfully quiet… no new games to report on?

[vinnyt]

I mean, my vault wars list is finalized and I think it's pretty good.

 

Battle report vs tournament Fyreslayers: https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=475196794396454&set=a.475213887728078

 

Basically it's King, Caster general with tideflip and bonus boat, 2x10 thralls, 1x10 reavers, Ancient Tortle, 2x2 sharks. Sharks and turtle are in hunters and rest is batreg.

Very solid TAC list that solves the tempo issue I was having with the army and doesn't lose a huge amount of output if the king goes down. I don't really have to care about being double turned because I asf on turn 2 which kind of dissuades my opponent from taking the double there. It's got a lot of shooting and a ridiculous amount of mobility. Tidecaster has steed of tides which lets me pretty much yeet the boat wherever I want if it goes off. 

Still think the list struggles against 1+ saves, but overall I think I can definitely go 3-2 and hopefully go 4-1. Unfortunately I won't have time to get in any practice games beforehand which is super annoying but I've played this army a lot so feel fairly comfortable with it. 

[Liquidsteel]

11 hours ago, Derek said:

Been awfully quiet… no new games to report on?

I suppose I could give a rundown of my recent tournament.

It was the Justice Series Teams event in Liverpool, UK. My team finished second out of six, the team won all our rounds but we came second to the winners, the Team Wales national team, who scored more points overall across all their games and took the win.

I took a Mor'phann list which I'll post below, going 4-0-1.

Game 1 Win vs Kruleboyz on Apex Predators. Boltboyz spam with Sludgeraker, Vulcha, Breakaboss and some Troggs. An easy win all things considered; Deepkin counter this army hard.

Game 2 Win vs Gloomspite with Kragnos and Troggs on Feral Foray. Large territories and me picking a "Heavy" terrain board allowed me to go first, and place my boats in such a fashion that Kragnos was unable to pass through - he would have had to smash a boat to rubble then move over it the following turn. An easy win, killed most of his army in Turns 1 and 2, then killed Kragnos after double turning 3 in to 4.

Game 3 Win vs Ironjawz on Veins of Ghur, with double Krusha, Pigs and Brutes. As we set up we were both joking about how badly I was going to lose, because vs Ironjawz it's very difficult to hide. Well I gave him first turn and he pushed 2 Krushas and 2x3 pigs in to me, failing the charge with his Brutes but calling a Waaagh! Overwatch from 20 Reavers killed 3 pigs, then his first Krusha only killed 15 out of 20 Reavers, and I removed casualties and piled away in my activation so that they were out of range of the other, causing him to fail his tactic. He killed 16 or so Thralls with the other one, which had Destroyer(!), and the remaining 14 Thralls dealt 18 Wounds back to him, taking him off. My other unit of 10 Thralls survived 3 pigs, with 4 thralls killing 2 pigs in response.

In my turn I then killed the remaining Krusha, lone pig and killed 7 Brutes, with 2 more running to battleshock. I won priority and we called it!

Game 4 Win vs Living City on Power Struggle, with Phoenix, 2 x 4 Fulminators, 6 Scourgerunner Chariots and some Tree Revs. A great game overall that was very back and forth. I managed to screen out the Fulminators quite well, but couldn't stop 4 of them going in to 30 Thralls. A mistake from my side meant I was unable to get their Ward save, and they killed them all despite the -1 Wound from the Thrallmaster. Fortunately between shooting and the king and turtle I managed to kill them in return. A similar situation happened turn 3, with 4 Fulminators killing my 20 Reavers, with the Turtle and Thralls killing them in response the following turn, whilst the King managed to take out the Phoenix, despite leaving him on 1 wound the turn prior.

 

Game 5 Loss vs Slaves to Darkness Despoilers on Feral Foray, with 4 Daemon Princes, Sorc Lord on Manticore, Be'Lakor and Iron Golem spam. This was against the captain of Team Wales with a really funky list. He had beaten a Deepkin player from another team already this tournament and he picked me as his opponent in the pairings. I played poorly overall, overextending and allowing myself to be picked apart. I won the priority turn 2 and took it, as he had positioned in a castle which allowed my king an opportunity to get +12 attacks, so 15 spear attacks. Unfortunately I missplayed my allocation and forgot how tanky Tzeentch mark is (re-roll 1s to save plus some save stacking) and only managed to kill his Khorne Marked General with a 4+ ward and left another prince alive on 1 Wound. 

The rest of the game he slowly chipped me down and I lost 20-0. Had I been more defensive I think I could have squeezed some points for the team, though with how despoilers works it made shooting very difficult, and fighting first with 3 Princes and his Sorc Lord meant High Tide only means you alternate, so it's a rough match up for sure.

 

The List:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Mor'Phann
- Mortal Realm: Shyish
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Akhelian King (250)*
- General
- Bladed Polearm
- Command Trait: Unstoppable Fury
- Mount Trait: Voidchill Darkness
Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)*
Isharann Soulrender (120)*
- Artefact: Rune of the Surging Gloomtide

Battleline
20 x Namarti Reavers (340)*
- Reinforced x 1
30 x Namarti Thralls (390)*
- Reinforced x 2
10 x Namarti Thralls (130)*

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (95)*
3 x Aetherwings (65)*

Behemoths
Akhelian Leviadon (500)*
- Mount Trait: Reverberating Carapace

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 2000 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 104
Drops: 1
 

Thoughts:

Unfortunately I didn't realise til after list submission that Heartrenders were locked to their old warscroll for this event, which meant I had to play them as moving on a 4+. This cost me a few points in 2 of my games but overall didn't change the outcome of any games from a win/loss perspective, but may have cost me a differential point or two overall.

It was my first time playing with both a 30 Thrall block as well as the Rune of Surging Gloomtide. Overall I think if I were to run this list again, I would change to 2 x 20 as 30 feel a bit overkill; if they're going to kill 20 Thralls they're probably going to kill 30. Or just drop 10 and add in Lotann.

It also made keeping them in range of the boat much trickier, and actually made placing the rune quite difficult sometimes, as the fact the boat needs to be deployed more than 3" from your own models also is quite restrictive if the table has a good spread of terrain. There were several occasions where I left my Thralls without a Ward save like an idiot and they got hit hard. In future I would squeeze Lotann in also to guarantee a 5+ ward for potentially 3 turns.

Mor'phann was great, though the experienced players knew to focus fire to limit its potential. I'm going to take Nautilar to the next tournament in 2 weeks, because I want to play with the rend 3 turtle again before the Nighthaunt book drops.

[DocKeule]

I am always amazed how many wounds you guys cause reliably. 

I had that happen on a few occasions but not nearly with that regularity. Much more often even the turtle is just shrugged off lately.  

[Liquidsteel]

39 minutes ago, DocKeule said:

I am always amazed how many wounds you guys cause reliably. 

I had that happen on a few occasions but not nearly with that regularity. Much more often even the turtle is just shrugged off lately.  

Most of the time the Turtle does 0 damage in shooting. It's beyond just a coincidence now.

[Derek]

Next week I get my first game with namarti.  Pretty excited to give them a shot.

[That Guy]

Guys. If you still just need the units from the start collecting box (because you already have so much sharks for example). Than I would check your local stores, because G-Dubs already removed the start collecting box. It will be Vanguard boxes from now on.

[Siorra]

12 hours ago, That Guy said:

Guys. If you still just need the units from the start collecting box (because you already have so much sharks for example). Than I would check your local stores, because G-Dubs already removed the start collecting box. It will be Vanguard boxes from now on.

Just a shame they've put in the Soulscryer instead of the Soulrender right when they've swapped in list popularity. You'd almost think they're trying to shift underused models or something! 😁

[That Guy]

4 hours ago, Siorra said:

Just a shame they've put in the Soulscryer instead of the Soulrender right when they've swapped in list popularity. You'd almost think they're trying to shift underused models or something! 😁

I still were able to buy 2 of them real quick. Zero regrets. Not a fan of the new vanguard box. Although not bad for new players. If they buy 3 vanguard boxes sell off the additional scryers and keep the rest. They’ll have:

1 Soulscryer
3 Allopexes
9 Eels
30 Thralls

That’s not a bad start, get a king, soulrender, lotann anything and drop in a turtle (or not), maybe a bunch of reavers and you are surfing.
 

Edited May 10, 2022 by That Guy

[Derek]

Battle reports to follow tonight for two games I played orruk warclans and seraphon 

[Derek]

Game one report.   Took the win against the big waagh warclans list,   His list was comprised of, 3 units of 10 savage orruks, 3 units of 6 boltboyz a unit of 6 gore-gruntas a boss on troggoth, a war chanter, and a prophet dude who does mortals with his mask.  
 

my list was:

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
    - Army Subfaction: Dhom-Hain
    - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
    - Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Sea (325)*
    - Spells: Arcane Corrasion

Isharann Tidecaster (150)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Teachings of the Túrscoll
    - Artefacts: Rune of the Surging Gloomtide
    - Spells: Steed of Tides

BATTLELINE

2 x Namarti Thralls (390)*

1 x Namarti Thralls (260)*

1 x Namarti Reavers (340)*

BEHEMOTH

Akhelian Leviadon (500)*
    - Mount Traits: Reverberating Carapace

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1965/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

the mission was apex predators.   
 

I out dropped him so I had choice for first turn and gave it away while flipping the tides.  So turn one didn’t result in much from either of us we basically jostled around the table score was 2-1 in his favor,   I won the roll off and got the double turn.   This took off with me killing his general the 6 gore gruntas and most of a unit of savage orruks.   And then In his turn he killed my turtle while also killing the prophet who did 14 of the 16 wounds to the turtle before dying.   The boltboyz wiped out the turtle and my eidolon of the sea with not a whole lot of effort.   He won the roll off for turn 3 and he started by Moving up his warchanter and charged my unit of thralls which decimated the prophet.   At this point neither of us had any hero’s left since he killed my Tide caster and the eidolon so it came down to battle tactics and I was running away with the game at this point so we called it.   
 

my thoughts on this game were that thralls are fun and do some solid damage but I think the reavers were a little more impressive, I never got to leverage dom-hain’s abilities since he kept everything pretty tight so I never had much breathing room,  I think if I had the king it might have made a big difference for me.  Ultimately fun game and my opponent was a pleasure to play against.  
 

 

[Derek]

Game 2 tonight was against the new local seraphon player in my scene and it was a very different game from the first one.  His list was the typical thunderlizards list (with a few alternatives like a stegadon for his 3rd battleline )that we’ve seen floating around the internet and I can see why it’s such a popular list,  there are answers to everything from that list and he piloted it pretty well.   I took a fuethan shark heavy list and the list was:

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
    - Army Subfaction: Fuethán
    - Grand Strategy: Akhelian Pursuit
    - Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

Akhelian King (250)*
    - General
    - Command Traits: Unstoppable Fury
    - Bladed Polearm and Falchion
    - Mount Traits: Voidchill Darkness

Eidolon of Mathlann Aspect of the Sea (325)*
    - Spells: Arcane Corrasion

Isharann Tidecaster (150)*
    - Artefacts: Rune of the Surging Gloomtide
    - Spells: Steed of Tides

BATTLELINE

Akhelian Allopexes (Bloodthirsty Shiver) (165)*
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

Akhelian Allopexes (Bloodthirsty Shiver) (165)*
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

Akhelian Allopexes (Bloodthirsty Shiver) (165)*
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

2 x Akhelian Allopexes (495)*
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

Akhelian Allopexes (165)*
    - Retarius Net Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

ENDLESS SPELL

Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

CORE BATTALIONS:

*Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: (1940/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

this game I was playing on the backfoot from the very beginning I went forward not thinking about all the seraphon tricks that I know so well since I also play seraphon and I paid the price for it each turn, along with my rather cold dice rolling when it came to magic and dispelling rolls my opponent definitely outplayed me and I didn’t manage to kill a lot of anything besides his skink chief on stegadon and a skink priest, we called it turn 3 since at that point he managed to kill my king in his turn and I had 2 sharks and my eidolon left on the board.  It was a tight game and at no point did I ever feel he ran away with the game until the final turn when he basically just mopped up my army and I didn’t see a path to victory.   
 

my thoughts from that game are that while sharks are fun I don’t think the shark heavy list is actually that impressive.  

[Liquidsteel]

I mean you basically played the worst list to go vs Thunder Lizard so I wouldn't use that as the basis for an opinion on Sharks overall.

-1 damage basically neuters Sharks, as they rely on their D3 and 2 damage shooting and bites.

I do agree that overall they're often not great though, they can have a place thanks to their speed and doing a bit of everything, and I do like a unit of 2 to skirt the flanks and apply pressure, but they do feel like they should be at least 10% cheaper.

[Derek]

I’m probably gonna give it another shot.  I’ve had two games with that list.  One against KO and the other against those thunderlizards.    So definitely need to practice more.   

[Derek]

No batreps or any new opinions on list building since we’ve been seeing tournaments with deepkin taking first place?  Anyone think the incarnate has a place in a deepkin list?  

[umpac]

17 hours ago, Derek said:

No batreps or any new opinions on list building since we’ve been seeing tournaments with deepkin taking first place?  Anyone think the incarnate has a place in a deepkin list?  

Haven't played it but should work well on paper at least. It will completely nullify at least 2 turns of shooting, which becomes 3 turns total with the ritual. As discussed a few pages back, it does very well into SCE dragons which are a big problem for IDK. +1 cast is really good for the Eidolon, the small aura on a combat piece doesn't matter since the Eidolon has short range spells anyway. +1 hit aura is nice since a lot of stuff is hitting on 3s, but you probably want to send thins thing off alone to do its thing (or at least always be 3" away from friendlies) so not sure how useful that will be. Re-rolls on charges is also pretty juicy, especially as all IDK units that used to have it gained +1 charge instead in the new book.

It has pretty pathetic output for 400pts and the auras are a bit of an anti-combo with the wild form, but IDK has plenty of damage and not a lot of staying power, so I can certainly see some people picking it up instead of a turtle. Would be interesting so hear from someone who has a few games under their belt with one.

[Derek]

@umpac I think I might throw mine in a list for my game against stormcast tomorrow.  Been kinda wanting to throw it in and see how it does

[Derek]

Hey guys new batrep.   So played against annhilator spam stormcast with a morphann thrall spam list.  Played what used to be called shifting objectives.  My list was:

 

Army Faction: Idoneth Deepkin
    - Army Subfaction: Mor’phann
    - Grand Strategy: Predator’s Domain
    - Triumphs: Inspired

LEADER

Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)

Lotann (115)

Isharann Tidecaster (150)
    - General
    - Command Traits: Teachings of the Túrscoll
    - Artefacts: Rune of the Surging Gloomtide
    - Spells: Counter-current

Akhelian Thrallmaster (110)

Isharann Soulrender (120)

Isharann Soulrender (120)

BATTLELINE

2 x Namarti Thralls (390)

1 x Namarti Thralls (260)

Namarti Thralls (130)

ENDLESS SPELL

Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Soulsnare Shackles (65)

OTHER

1 x Akhelian Allopexes (330)
    - Razorshell Harpoon Launcher, Barbed Hooks and Blades

TOTAL POINTS: (1960/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App
 

this was wrapped up in 2 warlord battalions one for the extra artifact and one for an extra spell.  
 

it’s been a few days since I played this game so I don’t remember all the details,  the stormcast player took the win 19-16.   It was a close game and I know I messed up by not taking both sides of the board I focused one side and he basically ran away with the points in the final 2 turns.  But up until that point, the 30 thralls survived 4 turns in combat.  Bringing back d3+3 every turn was really great, I’d inspiring presence and then bring back 5 dudes on average.  My opponent wiped them bottom of 4 with a long charge off 1 annhilator, the lord imperatant yndrasta and 5 vindictors all slapping them.   Was definitely a lot of fun to play that list and I can definitely fiddle with the points a little bit by dropping the second soul render for something else.  

[Derek]

So played a game against troll spam gloomspite gitz and used the incarnate in that game,  and I think it was really fun to use.   I definitely would’ve lost the game had I not kept the incarnate alive by capitalizing on my opponent’s mistake.   I ran away with the game at the bottom of turn 4 but it was super close until then.   

[Rogz]

I've just played my first game with IDK vs a cunning tournament player friend and i lost by a couple of points. This is huge as I'm usually an OBR player and get trashed!

Was really nice to play with a versatile army that packed a punch, plus to actually participate in AoS3 by redeploying, unleashing hell etc!!!

I found Reavers great and had a block of twenty in the middle of the board, both shooting and unleashing hell for most of the game. Three sharks and a leviadons shooting was underwhelming i thought (?) But i enjoyed the flexibility to then charge etc which isn't offered in OBR.

I only had a King and Lotann as heroes, which might have added to finding two units of ten thralls too squishy to really use well - maybe they should have been a twenty with a  thrallmaster.

On the whole i found sharks went down immediately when attacked in melee. I think next game i might be keeping them floating around shooting on the first two turns, and charging to attack juicy targets for turn three rather than any sooner.

How do you guys keep thralls and sharks alive? As i death player i didn't enjoy just removing thrall after thrall with only one save roll and losing them all to battleshock! Quite a culture change! 😂😭😂

 

[Siorra]

12 hours ago, Rogz said:

u guys keep thralls and sharks alive? As i death player i didn't enjoy just removing thrall after thrall with only one save roll and losing them all to battleshock! Quite a culture change! 😂😭😂

From my limited experience, you keep the sharks alive by screening with the Thralls! Thralls are our cheapest roadblock, which are still quiet expensive if they're just there to die, but some lists you need them to fill battleline anyway. Luckily they slap back, if they live, so people can be nervous about charging them if they can't wipe them.

Also if you're playing conservatively, Thralls can become quite tanky using clever placement of the boat ward, Leviadons, Thrallmasters, Soulrenders etc. So if you're playing shooting heavy you can maybe afford to play this way. But compared to Death armies? Yeah they're just gonna fall over a lot easier. 😅

[Cataphract]

For list compositions are folks leaning more Thrall or Shark or Eel heavy? 

[woolf]

3 hours ago, Cataphract said:

For list compositions are folks leaning more Thrall or Shark or Eel heavy? 

Eels feel pretty dead, I believed mixed arms Thralls/Reavers/Sharks seems to be the way of most lists