Frostlord on stonehorn

[Dream]

Megaboss on mawkrusha is more points and cant even touch the stonehorn.  Even if the megaboss gets the charge off and does 8 mortal wounds(4) it will probably still lose the combat, if it gets charged it will get smoked. I've seen stonehorn with the talisman, so they get 4+ save for mortals and then get to half them. the destruction move(with +2) standard move 12 run d6 then charge is retarded on a model that has over 26 wounds and hits like a ****** truck.

Seems like this is the most broken unit in the game by far.

[Nico]

It does compare favourably to the more expensive Rogue Idol of Gork - it's faster and more consistently fast (although both can make a first turn charge) and the 3+ save is massive. Plus it's a hero (for the battleplan that requires a hero to score and so it can take an artefact Battlebrew). The only thing going for the Rogue Idol (number 2 single model after Incandescent Skarbrand) is that it does more damage and has better rend.  

[Dream]

When compared to the mawkrusha megaboss its just flat better in every measurable way. Its faster(run + charge) more durable(halving wounds) and does more damage(6 -2rend 3 damage attacks) in addition to being cheaper points wise(460 vs 520).

I have been loving AoS but 3 stonehorns in a 2k list seems pretty silly.

[Soup Dragon]

So, at the risk of repeating myself yet again:
Yes the Frostlord Stonehorns are good, indeed very good. BUT, they are not invincible. Nico has tabled my SCGT list (3 Stonehorns + 3 Thundertusks), and I played Joe Purcell's Skryre list with my 3 Frostlord list on Thursday night and he beat me. I played against Bonesplitterz a month ago and they tabled me. Recently I was almost beaten by a High Aelf list for goodness sake! (saved by lucky priority roll turn 5). 
Yes there are armies out there that the Frostlords roll right over and crush, but with good play, a tweaked list, and keeping concentrated on the winning conditions they can be beaten regularly - you just need to learn how to do it.
And by the way, I agree that Gordrakk and Megaboss Mawcrusha are overcosted

[Dream]

Yea, we only have 7ish players locally so my meta experience is very limited when it comes to what other armies are exactly capable of(we all started playing post GHB we are also on the westcoast of NA so the scene is a lot smaller atm). But we do have an Ironjawz player and a BCR player. It just seems like there is no way that the ironjaws will beat BCR.  They are very similar armies in theme/execution(run out and punch ****** in the face, minimal shooting/magic) its just that BCR seems better than the ironjaws by a wide margin. 15 brutes will get destroyed by a stonehorn in one combat phase( lose 5 or 6 to wounds and most of the rest to battle shock). It just seems so weird that a 26 wound model(sometimes 30 if you keep dealing odd numbers of wounds to it) is so fast/hard hitting/cheap. D3 damage, arcane bolt, doesnt even matter against it, its always 1 no matter what you roll. 

It just seems like a very massive oversight that didn't get play-tested enough or at all.

[Soup Dragon]

You are quite right. With the current GHB points BCR roll over pure Ironjawz every time. They are just a bad match-up, and I really don't think there is anything that can be done to mitigate it in full competition. However, the really neat thing about AoS is that you can 'House Rule' anything amongst your friends. So if the BCR are crushing everything, then house rule only 2 Behemoths, or must use BCR only etc. etc.

Also, don't get disheartened - have a look at @Chris Tomlin Ironjawz thread. There are plenty of armies that look across the table at Ironjaws and know they are in for a serious kicking!

[Soup Dragon]

26 minutes ago, Dream said:

It just seems so weird that a 26 wound model(sometimes 30 if you keep dealing odd numbers of wounds to it) 

You do know that the half wounds are rounded UP don't you? So 1 damage is always 1 wound to the Stonehorn, and 5 damage is 3 wounds to a Stonehorn. So they can NEVER get to 30 effective wounds - 26 is the MAX, and because of the rounding up, it is usually more like 18-20 effective wounds

[Dream]

well we have been playing it rounded down, so that helps some. We are all noobs (ex 40k players) so you will have to excuse my noobieness.

still a ridiculous set of rules imo.

[Dream]

Just now, Soup Dragon said:

You are quite right. With the current GHB points BCR roll over pure Ironjawz every time. They are just a bad match-up, and I really don't think there is anything that can be done to mitigate it in full competition. However, the really neat thing about AoS is that you can 'House Rule' anything amongst your friends. So if the BCR are crushing everything, then house rule only 2 Behemoths, or must use BCR only etc. etc.

Also, don't get disheartened - have a look at @Chris Tomlin Ironjawz thread. There are plenty of armies that look across the table at Ironjaws and know they are in for a serious kicking!

I cant get disheartened when my warboss looks like this! been trying to post images here but it doesnt like my american .jpgs or something.
http://imgur.com/a/UXn5F

[daedalus81]

On 9/3/2016 at 2:42 PM, Dream said:

I cant get disheartened when my warboss looks like this! been trying to post images here but it doesnt like my american .jpgs or something.
http://imgur.com/a/UXn5F

When you attach an image URL from imgur post the link and then add .png to the end in the box, but you'll need to post each individual image and not the whole album -- like so:

 

[daedalus81]

On 9/3/2016 at 2:36 AM, Dream said:

Megaboss on mawkrusha is more points and cant even touch the stonehorn.  Even if the megaboss gets the charge off and does 8 mortal wounds(4) it will probably still lose the combat, if it gets charged it will get smoked. I've seen stonehorn with the talisman, so they get 4+ save for mortals and then get to half them. the destruction move(with +2) standard move 12 run d6 then charge is retarded on a model that has over 26 wounds and hits like a ****** truck.

Seems like this is the most broken unit in the game by far.

Not every stonehorn will have the talisman, but I digress -- math time!

Let's take battle brew, because it's only fair -- one swig.  Also with command ability on (+1 only).  He'll cause 12.9 wounds before halving, so 6-7 total.  Destructive bulk will cause 2 wounds after halving and talisman.

Frostlord can do 9 wounds.  I'll call that in favor of frostlord since he doesnt need the charge, but the Maw Krusha command ability is far and away better overall.  He also has a tremendous ability to cause tons of damage with destructive bulk when used properly.

[Nico]

Quote

Yes the Frostlord Stonehorns are good, indeed very good. BUT, they are not invincible. Nico has tabled my SCGT list (3 Stonehorns + 3 Thundertusks), and I played Joe Purcell's Skryre list with my 3 Frostlord list on Thursday night and he beat me. I played against Bonesplitterz a month ago and they tabled me. 

With respect I'm not sure this proves that much. I nearly tabled you (killed 3.5 of the monsters in turn one) and still lost the game due to 3 failed charges! You had never played Tomb Kings before. 

Clan Skryre with full Warpfire Throwers is literally the hard counter to any army with less than 50 models. It's an autowin button.

Bonesplitterz should be the hard counter to monster mash.

Wrathmongers or Fanatics are other hard counters to Beastclaw. The Bloodstorm formation is pretty much an autowin against them.

I think people will need to invest in debuff spells to deal with these Stonehorns (and possibly a Balewind Vortex to actually get to cast the spells before the alpha strike hits). Teclis would slow a Stonehorn back into the ground, -1 to hit or -1 attacks or -1 armour save could help.

Overall - the Stonehorn Lord should not have a 3+ save (why is he tougher than Malekith at 700 points?) or should be 60 more points. Also the healing ability for Huskards is so lame and so unfluffy - Ogres healing (except by eating people) is ridiculous.

 

 

[EldritchX]

You do know that the half wounds are rounded UP don't you? So 1 damage is always 1 wound to the Stonehorn, and 5 damage is 3 wounds to a Stonehorn. So they can NEVER get to 30 effective wounds - 26 is the MAX, and because of the rounding up, it is usually more like 18-20 effective wounds

18 is unlikely. If you assume that half of the damage dealt to it is odd, then you'd need to kill it in 14 or so packets of damage for it to have counted as only about 18 wounds. Since it only has 13 wounds, and the FAQ clarified that you round damage only after everything is rolled, it's also unlikely that you're going to deal that many packets to it.

Sent from my SGP621 using Tapatalk

[Arkiham]

its kinda rich that an ironjawz player is complaining about armies steamrolling them...

[Dream]

6 hours ago, Arkiham said:

its kinda rich that an ironjawz player is complaining about armies steamrolling them...

Im not the only one he is tabling. I tried to present a neutral argument...

aka every game he plays with us is over after he gets one double turn. yea we are all new to the game ****** US RIGHT!@ 40k sucks ****** anyways. its not like 1 stonehorne tableing and entire 1.5k army is unusual in AoS. we had thought the days of drop grav alpha strikes where over, now its just turn 1 stonehorn alpha strikes! yay

[daedalus81]

4 hours ago, Dream said:

  its not like 1 stonehorne tableing and entire 1.5k army is unusual in AoS.

Yes...yes it is...

[Arkiham]

his list is a one trick pony. figure it out and hes easy as hell to kill. 

just change your tactics instead of running face first time after time into him an complaining that he keeps winning. 

use the terrain to your advantage, bottleneck, chaff etc. 

[Dream]

6 hours ago, Arkiham said:

his list is a one trick pony. figure it out and hes easy as hell to kill. 

just change your tactics instead of running face first time after time into him an complaining that he keeps winning. 

use the terrain to your advantage, bottleneck, chaff etc. 

My army feels kinda like a one trick pony as well (ironjaws, crappy casters that melt my dudes and no shooting). Its not really me running into him but him running accros the table into me, feels like 3 games in a row he has gotten a 9+ in charge off in the first or 2nd turn. But, yea Ive been making tonnes of terrain cause all we have is 40k ruins and other sci-fi themed stuff. Once the board it a bit more crowded that should help it just smashing unit after unit. Its so devastating when a mournfang pack and 2 stonehorns blast you on a double turn.

[scrubyandwells]

Hey @Dream, FWIW, a lot of folks are having a tough go against BCR (especially Stonehorns and Thundertusks). A lot of folks are also having a tough go against Ironjawz (especially highly-buffed Brutes), and there's quite a few other sources of nastiness out there. The Stonehorns and Thundertusks are getting quite a bit of attention, and maybe for a good reason, but it's still early days. Their battletome just came out last month. Let's see how BCR lists fare in some of the upcoming tournies, e.g., this weekend at GW's The Warlords. Let's see what counters can be developed, and keep the discussion going.

[Payce]

28 minutes ago, scrubyandwells said:

Hey @Dream, FWIW, a lot of folks are having a tough go against BCR (especially Stonehorns and Thundertusks). A lot of folks are also having a tough go against Ironjawz (especially highly-buffed Brutes), and there's quite a few other sources of nastiness out there. The Stonehorns and Thundertusks are getting quite a bit of attention, and maybe for a good reason, but it's still early days. Their battletome just came out last month. Let's see how BCR lists fare in some of the upcoming tournies, e.g., this weekend at GW's The Warlords. Let's see what counters can be developed, and keep the discussion going.

Listen to @scrubyandwells, he knows his stuff.

I know the feeling of steamrolling, interestingly when I read your topic my first thought was "He's complaining about Stonehorns and not Thundertusks? That makes no sense." Every meta is different, and ever gaming group has their own chemistry, but give it time and you will all adapt to each other. If this player is tabling opponents left and right with his single Stonehorn, it sounds like you are all tactically very fresh - which is a good things! If you can learn and adapt and he is stuck in his ways, you're the ones with the higher potential.

My advice is to just keep working at it, paint and play and experiment, and don't get disheartened. You'll find that sweet spot where your tactics and your models align eventually.

[Dream]

19 hours ago, Payce said:

Listen to @scrubyandwells, he knows his stuff.

I know the feeling of steamrolling, interestingly when I read your topic my first thought was "He's complaining about Stonehorns and not Thundertusks? That makes no sense." Every meta is different, and ever gaming group has their own chemistry, but give it time and you will all adapt to each other. If this player is tabling opponents left and right with his single Stonehorn, it sounds like you are all tactically very fresh - which is a good things! If you can learn and adapt and he is stuck in his ways, you're the ones with the higher potential.

My advice is to just keep working at it, paint and play and experiment, and don't get disheartened. You'll find that sweet spot where your tactics and your models align eventually.

Thanks for the encouragement everybody. I went all tryhard mode and learned to play the game! I played the BCR guy twice tonight and narrowly won a major victory in the first game and smoked him the 2nd.

So I've been hosting an AoS night at out local game store and I just finished like 12 pieces of AoS(non sci-fi) terrain and bought a couple foresty themed aquarium terrain pieces.  Having a few sparse hills and a wood or 2 was not enough terrain. I made some nice, large impassible rocklike formations(pink foam and plaster ftw),  basically ****** that you have to move around so you cant just line up strait across from me and charge ahead.  That helped a lot, just being able to position my models so that the stone horn can only hit a single unit of 5 brutes or go the LONG ass way around helped a ton. Also, I finally found the part in the rules where it says that you can place a entire formation down as a single deployment(I has heard people talking about it on podcasts but thought it was a tourney rule faq thing and then I didn't see it in the SCGT faq so I was just lost). Ive been running a ironfist, so I was able to deploy en masse and choose bottom of the first round in both games. THIS WAS ****** HUGE!!! Over 2 games he never got a double turn! A double on turn 2 was what was really ****** me up bad. Also we were playing it right and rounding up the wounds, that helped a lot as well.

[Arkiham]

maybe less of the ****** stuff, its not really required.

but glad to hear it, don't specifically place terrain every single game to ****** the guy over, or he'll get bored and likely feel like he's being singled out and that creates negativity which no one wants, make it enjoyable for both parties.

[jobume]

On 4 september 2016 at 10:14 PM, Nico said:

With respect I'm not sure this proves that much. I nearly tabled you (killed 3.5 of the monsters in turn one) and still lost the game due to 3 failed charges! You had never played Tomb Kings before. 

@Nico Now I am really curious how someone can take down 3,5 monsters in turn one. How did you do it?

[Soup Dragon]

@Dream that's great news. I am so pleased for you that you stuck to the task, thought it through and came up with list tweaks and appropriate tactics. WAY too many people play against the Frostlord list once, get crushed and then just throw their hands up, shout "Broken!" and want it comped out of existence. As you have found, there are effective counters and the Frostlords are not as overpowered as people think (they are still very good though). 

Can I ask a favour of you? Whenever you see posts on forums moaning about Frostlords, please pass on your experiences to the posters.

[Nico]

Quote

@Nico Now I am really curious how someone can take down 3,5 monsters in turn one. How did you do it?

Fighting fire with fire - another alpha strike list. 6 Necropolis Knights with Righteous Smiting; Settra buff; Tomb King buff; Damned terrain buff (in total +3 to hit and +1 to wound); whipped (reroll wound rolls of one) and speed doubled (movement 22); and Vanhels Danse Macabre. This has since been hard nerfed by two of the rule of ones. It's also very dependent on 5 wound heroes.