Any love for the Dispossesed?

[Kokaka]

Hi all.

So I have been trying to find some information about the Dispossesed, builds units heroes etc and if they are any good.

Does anyone here have experience with them either as individual units or as a whole army, maybe even with support from Demigryph Knights and Hurricanum?

Thanks

[Skreech Verminking]

They are actually pretty good in a city of sigmar army.

And I really love them (for food and as a faction)😂😁

the Dispossesseds have some great units in their roster.

they can be easily buffed by rune-lords, who’s prayer’s  stack, 
and units like irondrakes and Hammerers, are incredible at destroying stuff.

Ironbreakers and longbeards are also pretty great.

they both can be great at melee in som certain dire situations, but will hold the line for a pretty long time, unless a Warpfire thrower weapon teams somehow manages to get to your frontline

[readercolin]

Irondrakes are one of the best shooters in the cities.  Many lists will run them in either hallowheart or tempest eye, so that they can get a +1 to wound.  Add a hurricanum for +1 to hit, a command point for re-rolling hits, and longbeards for re-rolling wounds.  Finally, add a runesmith or three for bonus rend.

This gives you a unit that is 2+rr1/2+rr1/-1-4/1.  For reference, a block of 10 of these guys will do an average of ~19 damage not counting the unit leader with these stats.  Additionally, for reference an average 2k AoS army contains between 80 and 120 wounds, with a few exceptional outliers.  This means that a block of 30 of them can technically wipe most armies off the board in 2 turns of shooting, assuming that nothing takes out any of the irondrakes or support pieces.

So you take the above, and then combine that with the soulscream bridge so that they can get into range without needing to move, and you have the core component of many competitive lists.  All that you need from there is some screening and maybe a solid anvil to make sure that your irondrakes survive those 2 turns, and then probably a few units for grabbing objectives.  The real question is if you are going to go all in with 30 irondrakes, or a little less all in and run only 20 of them (still enough to shoot most armies off the table in 3 turns).

Beyond the irondrakes, the next unit is the longbeards.  They are a bit expensive to use as a screen, and there are usually better options for accomplishing that.  However, if you are running irondrakes, it is usually a good idea to run at least a min sized squad of longbeards to give them the re-roll 1's to wound.  More than that... and you would usually be better served by having cheaper screens.

Lastly, for units that see competitive use, runelords.  As mentioned above, giving irondrakes bonus rend is the most common reason to bring them.  However, they also make irondrakes and hammerers battleline if they are your general, and can also be useful for their dispel's (which comes with a bonus to the dispel), so they occasionally see play without a heavy dispossessed focus as well.

For the remaining units, ironbreakers suffer in that they don't really do enough damage for their points, and are also too expensive to use as a screen.  On top of that, a 4" move is cripplingly slow, and they struggle to actually get into combat in the first place.  Realistically, to be used they need something that improves their mobility, or they need a points drop so that there is a reason to take them as a screen.

Hammerers are potentially the hardest hitting infantry in the game for their points.  As in, they can have the same profile as the buffed irondrakes, but add a few extra mortal wounds on top for ~22.7 damage per 10 (not counting the unit leader).  However, they can also be buffed with +1 attacks from the warden king, AND if you run them in tempest eye another +1 attacks from aura of glory, for a potential of 45.4 damage per 10, all for 140 points/10 or 360/30.  Going back to what was mentioned above about the typical number of wounds an army has, and you can see that theoretically a block of 30 has the ability to wipe an entire army off the table in a single turn of combat.  Now, this will never happen, because the opposing army is going to HAVE to have multiple units, and they can't really engage the multiple units that well.  However, you can see how they are one of the killiest units in the game with proper support.

But they don't see play.  Why?  Because even though they are theoretically very killy, they are missing a few important things.  First is mobility.  Just like Gotrek, if they are super killy but can be easily avoided, it doesn't really matter because they can't kill anything anyways.  Additionally, they have no answer to "always strike first" or "always strike last".  Throw a block of 30 of these guys at a keeper of secrets that is going to make them fight last, and they will be decimated before they can even swing.  Lastly, you can put all that buffing effort into irondrakes, do a sick amount of damage with them, and not have to worry about melee combat at all.  So why wouldn't you?  Again, like ironbreakers, they need something that improves their mobility and their ability to get to a target, and possibly a points drop as well so that there is a reason to take them.

And lastly, the warden king.  The only reason to take a warden king is to buff hammerers/ironbreakers in melee.  As mentioned, both of those units struggle to be used anyways, which means that warden kings aren't going to be used either.  Not really anything more to say on them.

Now, if you don't care about being super competitive, then you can run the other dispossessed units.  But if you do care about competitiveness, you will generally get a few irondrakes, a single unit of longbeards, and a runelord or two and call it a day.

[Kokaka]

Thanks for the input guys. It makes listbuilding alot easyer.

I have tried to build an army from the tips above and have come up with this one. I mixed in some Demigryph knights since Scibor Miniatures have Dwarf Bear Riders which looks amazing and would be "count as". I also took a general on Griffon since I will try to convert one from the Magmaroth sculpt and there is a conversion out there who I can use as inspiration.

Runelord: General 90.p

Freeduild General on Griffon 320.p

Celestial Hurricanum with battlemage 280.p

10x Longbeards 110.p

10x Longbeards 110.p

30x Irondrakes 450.p

3x Demigryph Knights 180.p

3x Demigryph Knights 180.p

2x Gyrocopters 140.p

2x Gyrocopters 140.p

2000.p total.

So what do you guys thing?

[JackStreicher]

Looks good!

[readercolin]

14 hours ago, Kokaka said:

Thanks for the input guys. It makes listbuilding alot easyer.

I have tried to build an army from the tips above and have come up with this one. I mixed in some Demigryph knights since Scibor Miniatures have Dwarf Bear Riders which looks amazing and would be "count as". I also took a general on Griffon since I will try to convert one from the Magmaroth sculpt and there is a conversion out there who I can use as inspiration.

Runelord: General 90.p

Freeduild General on Griffon 320.p

Celestial Hurricanum with battlemage 280.p

10x Longbeards 110.p

10x Longbeards 110.p

30x Irondrakes 450.p

3x Demigryph Knights 180.p

3x Demigryph Knights 180.p

2x Gyrocopters 140.p

2x Gyrocopters 140.p

2000.p total.

So what do you guys thing?

Changes to consider:

Run the Soulscream Bridge.  Why?  Because if you bridge your irondrakes forwards, it doesn't count as moving.  Additionally, the cities gets the buffed bridge, which means it can go 24".  Since you have to be within 6" of the bridge to use it, this can effectively move your units almost 36" forwards, and it doesn't count as a move so your drakes still get to shoot twice.

Can your opponent play around this?  Yes.  However, it is forcing your opponent to react to you, and it forces more decisions out of them that you can then exploit.

Second, I would consider running 2 runelords.  Note, forgefire stacks.  This means that you can get them to -3 rend, which is enough to blast away just about any unit's armor and makes your drakes significantly more effective.  Additionally, this gives you a second small unit to be the adjutant.

Third, I would look to have more screening.  The longbeards are ok at screening, but even if you give them a 3+ save they still will fall to a concerted attack.  This is especially relevant when you are wanting to keep them close to the irondrakes to give them the re-roll 1's to wound buff.

Fourth, mage redundancy.  If your opponent has anything that can snipe a unit out, your hurricanum is not going to be long for this world.  You may find that you need another mage (or two) if there are any spells that you are relying on.

Note, none of the above are required.  If you like your list as is, go for it.  However, you are going to run into a few issues related to getting your irondrakes into range, and your opponent dancing around them.  You can either focus down on forcing your opponent to deal with them (which makes sense when you are putting 1/4 of your army into them), or you need to divide your threats out more and have another concentrated threat that your opponent has to deal with.  For example, instead of 2 units of 3 demi's, use 1 unit of 6 which can get in and devastate something in melee before your opponent can strike back.

[Landohammer]

So the  statlines of Dispossessed are among the best for battleline-available infantry in the game. Most notably Irondrakes and Hammerers. The Gyrocopter is also excellent, but can become insanely powerful vs horde armies with low armor. For example, I had one kill 25 Flagellants this past weekend in a single game. 

However, the elephant in the room for Dispossessed is their movement. A skilled opponent can avoid charges and ranged weapon distances easily. Failed charges can become particularly devastating since your desired target can simply walk away. For example, I declare a 9 inch charge, fail it, and now my opponent moves 5 inches away making it a 10 inch charge next round (or simply counter-charging me). It sounds silly but imagine your opponent doing that all game to a 360pt unit of hammerers supported by a 110pt character. Ouch! 

I actually have been experimenting with Living City Dispossessed lists quite a bit. Being able to deepstrike your melee units or double-move your shooting units is huge. I also give the Warden or Runelord the Druid Command Trait so that they become wizards. The spells are particularly useful for Dwarfs since Cage of Thorns cripples your opponents movement and Ironoak skin is just insane on any unit with a decent armor save. Imagine Ironbreakers with Ironoak skin. 

 Also your Demigryfs, Gyrocopters, Warmachines, and Hurricanums will really appreciate the free heals every turn.

 

[Double Misfire]

I love the Disposessed and Longbeards are an underrated treat. Can't find a use for Ironbreakers though.

Here's a very long guide I put together on getting the most out of each unit, and how they benefit from each of the different City allegiances:

https://www.doublemisfire.com/2020/02/the-lonely-realmsphere-guide.html

[Doko]

Ironbreakers are one of the worst unit of all aos,easily the most overcosted unit by far.

 

If we compare their damage output and the damage that they can take,they have the same stats that liberators with a cost of 100 and stormcasts players says that liberators are bad so in what place put our ironbreakers with same stats than liberators but 130 points?

 

Also i agree that seeing stats hammerers and irondrakes are great. But in games and the reason that they arent used in any competitive list are that they have too much counterplays.

 

Hammerers are very slow and havent nothing special to offset this,neither a great special save of 4+ as fyreslayers to try tank the damage while get to melle neither something special to attack first etc

 

Irondrakes again great in paper......but useless in games,a 16" range is the shortest range of all the shooting units in aos, and moreover only 4" move that does the actual range even less(very range unit actual range is the range of weapon+move of the model) . Also the cant shoot twice if moved does them useless and i the oponent know how play they never gonna shoot twice.

Sure we can bring the bridge but then it is more points betwen the spell and the mage to add to the drakes doing them even less point eficient.

 

For same points we can use others units as sisters of avelorn with close points per wounds done, but with double actual range than drakes and can move and dont need spells or mages to work.

 

Disposesed are rigth now in a very bad spot,in paper they arent bad,but in games they are overcosted and have too much counterplays so that is the reason that nobody uses them in tournament.

 

We have seen maaaaaany tournaments podiums with citys of dark elf,high elf,humans,stormcast but dwarfs never.

 

Dispossesed unts need a huge decrease in points in this general handbook if they want put us to the same lvl than other units in citys book.

 

Ironbreakers at 100

 

Irondrakes 120

 

Longbeards 80\100

 

Hammerers points are fine 

 

Also every hero a decrease of 20

 

Even with those buffs i dont think gonna be enougth due to the 4" move

[Skreech Verminking]

7 minutes ago, Doko said:

 

Irondrakes again great in paper......but useless in games,a 16" range is the shortest range of all the shooting units in aos, and moreover only 4" move that does the actual range even less(very range unit actual range is the range of weapon+move of the model) . Also the cant shoot twice if moved does them useless and i the oponent know how play they never gonna shoot twice.

Irondrakes are probably one of the best shooting unit in the whole city of sigmar range.

sure they may have a bit of a range problem and may only move 4inches.

But with the right cities they’ll be moving 7inches in total and can even run and shoot with a cp.

their damage output is incredible when stood still.
and unlike certain unit in comparison for the same cost or a similar cost, they will easily outperform most of those units.

unlike their human counterparts irondrakes have a better save, hit better and can shoot twice for a cost of 150 instead of 100.

as for their movement, free-guild will be an inch faster, and elves most of the time 
as for your opponent, sure they may know how to outplay, those drakes, unless they are one of those many alpha strike armies like ironjawz, Slaanesh, khorne etc.

those armies are literally interested in getting into combat, and if you put your army around your hammering Intondrakes correctly, these guys will literally anhiliate literally every single unit.

[readercolin]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

Ironbreakers are one of the worst unit of all aos,easily the most overcosted unit by far.

If we compare their damage output and the damage that they can take,they have the same stats that liberators with a cost of 100 and stormcasts players says that liberators are bad so in what place put our ironbreakers with same stats than liberators but 130 points?

Umm... you appear to have missed some rather important things in the comparison between ironbreakers and liberators.  You are indeed correct that 5 liberators will do about the same amount of damage as 5 ironbreakers.  However, ironbreakers come in units of 10, not 5... meaning that they actually do about double the damage.  Additionally, Ironbreakers are rocking a 3+ save vs the liberators 4+.  As if that wasn't enough, Ironbreakers are also on 25mm bases, meaning that they can fight in 2 ranks compared to liberators on their 40mm bases with 1" reach.  Kind of blows a hole in your argument though, doesn't it.

2 hours ago, Doko said:

Also i agree that seeing stats hammerers and irondrakes are great. But in games and the reason that they arent used in any competitive list are that they have too much counterplays.

Hammerers are very slow and havent nothing special to offset this,neither a great special save of 4+ as fyreslayers to try tank the damage while get to melle neither something special to attack first etc

Agreed that hammerers are in a rough spot.  It is possible to use them, and they do have one of the highest damage outputs in the game with all the buffs on them.  However, getting them on target and surviving in a world of "always strike first"/"always strike last" is the problem.  That being said, this could be an argument to use them in a Phoenicium list so you can let them pile in and attack when they die... and your opponent will ALWAYS target them first.

2 hours ago, Doko said:

Irondrakes again great in paper......but useless in games,a 16" range is the shortest range of all the shooting units in aos, and moreover only 4" move that does the actual range even less(very range unit actual range is the range of weapon+move of the model) . Also the cant shoot twice if moved does them useless and i the oponent know how play they never gonna shoot twice.

Sure we can bring the bridge but then it is more points betwen the spell and the mage to add to the drakes doing them even less point eficient.

For same points we can use others units as sisters of avelorn with close points per wounds done, but with double actual range than drakes and can move and dont need spells or mages to work.

You do realize that sisters also only get 2 shots if they don't move as well, right?  Same with crossbows.  And handgunners only get their +1 to hit if they don't move.  Literally the only shooting infantry blob that can shoot and move without penalty is darkshards.  The cavalry can actually move and shoot without issue, but their damage output is low enough comparatively that they aren't often considered.

As for sisters getting double the actual range... they have 2" more range.  An 18" range vs a 16" range.  Yes, if you move and shoot, that is an effective threat range of 24" vs 20", but still nowhere close to the double you are claiming.

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I'm going to skip the rest of your arguments because they are doing fire alarm testing where I am right now, and it is straining me too much to remain polite while trying to think over the incessant screeching.