Gaunt summoner, pink horrors and tzaangors

[Iradekhorne]

¡Hi all, Mortals!

I have three questions.

The first question is a question about the summon of the gaunt summoner. The warscroll say "you can summon "pink horrors"" but that warscroll name doesn't exist. My question is, you still playing it like they summon 10 horrors? in that case, pinks?

Because I don't know... the power of the summon of pinks are much more than the other options, Maybie they refere to summon blues.

 

The other question is the next one. If a pink horror with the icon die, i can't use the ones on bravery tests to summon more pinks. But if i use the fold reality spell, i can re-summom it no? i choose who summon first.

 

And the 3rd question is about tzaangors, and the tzaangor shaman spell. If i add more tzaangors to a unit, for example i add, in 3 turns, 7 tzaangors, any of theese tzaangors can have any special weapon or banner no? Bcause they say "x" in every 10... but the tzaangors don't reached 20. Or i can treat them like if they had been "unlocked the second tier" of models in the unit?

 

I always have an idea of the rules, but i like discuss this cases, because you have it on your native language, and sometimes is a bit diferent on my language, the wording change the rules sometimes. 

¡Thank you guys, and sorry for my english!

Edited January 11, 2020 by Iradekhorne
Better writting

[NinthMusketeer]

To the first question the answer is currently no, but expect an FAQ on the matter in two weeks.

Second question the answer is yes; you can fold reality to return the slain icon bearer.

Regarding the Tzaangors, the additional models in that case cannot have special weapons, because the "in 10" threshold has not been met. We're someone to use a unit of 5 Tzaangors, for example, they could not use any special weapons.

[Asamu]

On 1/8/2020 at 10:48 PM, Iradekhorne said:

The first question is a question about the summon of the gaunt summoner. The warscroll say "you can summon "pink horrors"" but that warscroll name doesn't exist. My question is, you still playing it like they summon 10 horrors? in that case, pinks?

Because I don't know... the power of the summon of pinks are much more than the other options, Maybie they refere to summon blues.

If you summon Horrors, they must be pinks. Yeah, it's way better than the other options, but... currently the rules don't really allow for any ambiguity here.

In the gaunt summoner rule:

"Choose 1 unit from the following list:
• 10 Pink Horrors"

It is not bolded as a keyword, and there is no mention of warscrolls in the rule, so all that matters is whether or not Pink Horrors have a model and rules - which they do, on the Horrors of Tzeentch warscroll.

In a unit of Horrors of Tzeentch:

"PINK HORRORS: Any number of models in this unit can be Pink Horrors"

Pink Horrors are still specific models in the game, even if they do not have their own warscroll, and you are summoning a unit of them. There is no rules conflict or ambiguity, and this does not need an errata or FAQ unless they're intending to reduce the power level of the rule.

Edited January 12, 2020 by Asamu

[NinthMusketeer]

The point being that RAW, "Pink Horrors" are not a unit.  Or at least it does not refer to the current warscroll.  There are "Horrors" which could contain 10 Pink Horrors, but that still is not the name of the unit. Now we all know what the ability means RAI but TECHNICALLY the first option could only be used to summon the older "Pink Horrors" warscroll that is now obsolete. To make it work with the current lineup it would have to read along the lines of "a unit of Horrors containing 10 Pink Horrors" because the name of the unit is different. That is why it needs an FAQ/Errata, because RAW is getting in the way of how the rule is clearly supposed to work.

[Isotop]

On 1/12/2020 at 6:38 PM, NinthMusketeer said:

The point being that RAW, "Pink Horrors" are not a unit.  Or at least it does not refer to the current warscroll.  There are "Horrors" which could contain 10 Pink Horrors, but that still is not the name of the unit. Now we all know what the ability means RAI but TECHNICALLY the first option could only be used to summon the older "Pink Horrors" warscroll that is now obsolete. To make it work with the current lineup it would have to read along the lines of "a unit of Horrors containing 10 Pink Horrors" because the name of the unit is different. That is why it needs an FAQ/Errata, because RAW is getting in the way of how the rule is clearly supposed to work.

I am not sure about this. "10 Bloodletters" is not a unit name either, the "10" gets in the way when trying to match it with a warscroll unit name. When we summon them we just assume to create a unit consisting of 10 Bloodletter (models). In my view, we can apply the same rule to Pink Horrors without a problem.

[NinthMusketeer]

"Bloodletters" is the name of a warscroll though, "Pink Horrors" isn't unless we refer to the older one. IMO it is largely moot because they will FAQ in a couple weeks to fix it.

Edited January 15, 2020 by NinthMusketeer

[Isotop]

On 1/15/2020 at 7:39 PM, NinthMusketeer said:

"Bloodletters" is the name of a warscroll though, "Pink Horrors" isn't unless we refer to the older one. IMO it is largely moot because they will FAQ in a couple weeks to fix it.

You still have to bend things to make your explanation correct. You say unit name = title on the warscroll, don´t you? The Gaunt Summoner warscroll says:

 

"Choose 1 unit from the following list: • 10 Pink Horrors • 10 Bloodletters • 10 Plaguebearers • 10 Daemonettes • 6 Furies"

(https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls//aos_Gaunt_Summoner_eng.pdf). 

 

There are basically two different ways of understanding this rules text:

 

A: The objects listed ("10 Pink Horrors", "10 Bloodletters", ...) have to exactly match a warscrolls title.

or

B: Formalizing, for example, "10 Bloodletters" into "X N". We then get to summon a unit consisting of X(number of models) N(kind of model).

 

I think it is pretty easy to see that A is not really possible (without bending the rules text). Therefore B has to be the way to go. Following B, there is no problem in summoning a unit with a model quantity of 10 and model type Pink Horror. 

Fell free to explain to me how A could be possible without bending/over-interpreting the rules text or show me another interpretation C that makes sense.

 

 

 

 

[NinthMusketeer]

Can you find some other abilities that work as you say, where the name does not refer to the warscroll? Because there are many that work where the name refers to the warscroll.

[EMMachine]

8 hours ago, NinthMusketeer said:

Can you find some other abilities that work as you say, where the name does not refer to the warscroll? Because there are many that work where the name refers to the warscroll.

The problem is, the Horrors are the first unit of it's kind, where basicly three different units are included into 1 warscroll.