AoS 2 - Living City Discussion

[Lebenski]

48 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

@Lebenski pretty close to some lists that we've seen success from already so I imagine it'll work. I don't love the double sorceress and I'm not a fan of the Anointed on foot. I'd much rather take a Nomad Prince to make the sisters battleline than make the PG battleline, but maybe my instinct on that is wrong.

Thanks for the thoughts!  I really wanted to do exactly as you said and run a Nomad Price general, but his biggest issue is that you really want him on the Hidden Paths with the Sisters which means that you aren't getting your Adjutant roll turn 1, and in order to get subsequent Adjutant rolls you need to take that Hero with you too.

This is a list that really wants to leverage Strike Then Melt Away heavily (not to mention Command Abilities on the Anointed/Nomad Prince scrolls if you run them) so the Adjutant seems super important as our only way to boost CPs.

So that leaves us with needing two <6 wound heroes on the battlefield at the start of the game.  I agree that the Anointed isn't the strongest choice but he also does offer some really good utility.  His CA really powers up the big block of Phoenix Guard, no Battleshock for the PG is a thing and an extra unbinding/dispell attempt is always welcome.   Not to mention the utility of dispelling our own Lifeswarm as and when we dont want to risk the opponent controlling it.
 

I don't hate the idea of running a Sorceress General and Sorceress Adjutant with Nomad Prince in the Hidden Paths by any means but the extra 30 points probably means downgrading your Darkshards to Dreadspears and Freeguild Guard thus losing some damage output.  Thanks again for your thoughts and also for your really thorough analysis throughout this thread - it has certainly helped me!

Edited July 31, 2020 by Lebenski

[Lebenski]

44 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:Here's another list I've worked out that is rather the opposite of most of my other lists:

Anointed on Frostie (general, ironoak artisan, probably spear of the hunt as there probably isn't a better option)

Celestial Hurricanum with Battlemage (Lifesurge)

30 Phoenix Guard

30 Freeguild Crossbowmen

30 Freeguild Handgunners

4 Desolators

 

The point here is to get the drops as low as possible. I'd love to expand the drop count a bit, but I don't know what the typical Kroak and IDK lists are coming in at. Basically I'd like to be able to choose first turn against opponents where that will be advantageous. Usually the hurricanum, crossbows and desolators will start off the board with the rest on the board. Sometimes though I can imagine using a different configuration, possible with the melee starting on the board and the ranged all off it.

Nice list!  The model I most wish I could find space for is the Anointed on Frostie.  Do you think that 6 drops is really low enough to get the advantage you need?  I feel like you’d be giving up a lot for it when a good chunk of the time you won’t even get the option of going first when you need it.  Love the idea of the big blocks though!

[swarmofseals]

1 minute ago, Lebenski said:

Nice list!  The model I most wish I could find space for is the Anointed on Frostie.  Do you think that 6 drops is really low enough to get the advantage you need?  I feel like you’d be giving up a lot for it when a good chunk of the time you won’t even get the option of going first when you need it.  Love the idea of the big blocks though!

Yeah, in most of my lists I've been pushing 12-18 drops by being intentionally MSU. I've been trying hard to fit the frostie in there because of the new missions that heavily value leaders and the secondaries that revolve around heroes. It's not easy, and I don't really love it but I suspect in a tournament environment it may be really important. I just need to test it out, which I am hoping to get a chance to do on TTS now that I've got that.

I don't know if 6 is really low enough to be worth it, but I'm really only looking to get there in a couple of specific matchups. A lot of armies I don't mind if they go first. Just gotta test those matchups if I can and see how it goes to get a sense of how worthwhile it is.

 

[swarmofseals]

Anyone tried out allied Morsarr Guard? They seem like a pretty solid choice for a unit to start on the table with. I could see a group of 6 doing some good work in melee. They are a lot more efficient than any of our mobile options.

[Rune]

On 7/31/2020 at 11:58 PM, swarmofseals said:

Yeah, in most of my lists I've been pushing 12-18 drops by being intentionally MSU. I've been trying hard to fit the frostie in there because of the new missions that heavily value leaders and the secondaries that revolve around heroes. It's not easy, and I don't really love it but I suspect in a tournament environment it may be really important. I just need to test it out, which I am hoping to get a chance to do on TTS now that I've got that.

I don't know if 6 is really low enough to be worth it, but I'm really only looking to get there in a couple of specific matchups. A lot of armies I don't mind if they go first. Just gotta test those matchups if I can and see how it goes to get a sense of how worthwhile it is.

 

Hit me up if you want to test some things on TTS! I'd love to theory craft with someone. 

[Popisdead]

I don't know what VAnguard-Raptors do/are but consider either of the two mounted units that can shoot and come one.  I believe they are concussors or fulminators?  I believe you would still make good use of AEtherwings also even without the VR.

Oh also Lifeswarm.  Healing WWRs is good and presents a good balance of debating your opponent always taking the turn if you can heal up guys.  

[swarmofseals]

53 minutes ago, Popisdead said:

I don't know what VAnguard-Raptors do/are but consider either of the two mounted units that can shoot and come one.  I believe they are concussors or fulminators?  I believe you would still make good use of AEtherwings also even without the VR.

Oh also Lifeswarm.  Healing WWRs is good and presents a good balance of debating your opponent always taking the turn if you can heal up guys.  

Vanguard-Raptors are kinda OK ranged units, but they enable Aetherwings to move during the enemy charge phase which is absolutely huge. Aetherwings are still great either way, but they are much better when they can actively intercept enemy charges.

[SentinelGuy]

The vanguard raptors can also make use of the aquilor command which allows them to redeploy up the board. It means that you get a full alpha strike with pretty much the entire force on turn 1. 6 of them chuck out 54 ranged shots (essentially darkshard stats) but are more survivable and have a smaller footprint.

[swarmofseals]

7 minutes ago, SentinelGuy said:

The vanguard raptors can also make use of the aquilor command which allows them to redeploy up the board. It means that you get a full alpha strike with pretty much the entire force on turn 1. 6 of them chuck out 54 ranged shots (essentially darkshard stats) but are more survivable and have a smaller footprint.

Here's where you lose me a bit. 54 4+/4+/- shots is really not much of an "alpha strike'. You're killing 3-4 Ardboys with that shooting, which is not very good for a 280 point unit (especially when it also requires taking an otherwise mediocre hero and spending a CP).

They also aren't more survivable. You're spending 280 points on 12 wounds with a 4+ save. I'd much rather have ~30 wounds with a 5+ or 6+ save.

6 Vanguard Raptors w/ Hurricane Crossbows: 13.5 rend 0 damage

30 Darkshards: 20.17 rend 0 damage

30 Freeguild Crossbows w/ general buff: 33.61 rend 0 damage

 

[SentinelGuy]

I didn't mean as an alpha strike on their own, they'd be the supporting piece working in tandem with other units. 

As a deployed unit they act as an anchor to more important units that you want off the board at the start. In my case that's usually a mix of something like Wildwood Rangers, Drycha, Durthu, Treelord, Dragon etc. 

Paired with an Aquilor (another anchor) they can jump multiple times throughout the game to take objectives, avoid charges, and pick off supporters and chaff. Their footprint is much smaller than 30 Darkshards or Crossbowmen which makes them easier to deploy, hide behind terrain and avoid charges. That's what I meant by survivable. 

They also work well with the birds and can get them to move out of turn.

Are they the best option? In most lists I very much doubt it. But then I've seen plenty of games where the hordes of Darkshards and Crossbowmen get deleted by Gyrocopters.

I don't see the point in playing what is essentially a static gunline with Living City, Tempest's Eye does it much better. For me personally, I'd rather have ninja troops popping up all over. The hordes just don't fit how I play.

[swarmofseals]

I finally got a game in on TTS with my 6 drop living city list! I played against Heimdarr Fyreslayers list featuring 40 HGB, 20 Vulkites, Runefather, Runmaster, Runesmiter, Battlesmith, and 2 Grimwrath Berserkers with the Lords of the Lodge battalion. He won the roll to decide the realm and chose Aqshy, while I won the roll off to drop first. As we were both 6 drops I chose to drop first and ended up giving him the first turn. We were playing Total Conquest.

We didn't get a chance to finish as the server went down for maintenance on us, but it was a very solid game. We each had some good and some less good rolls, nothing too swingy. He ended up getting off a very long charge on turn 1 with his tunneled HGB and wiped out my Handgunners, but this may have been a mistake as it left him open to a counter-charge from the Phoenix and Phoenix Guard which in turn killed 15 of them (they were out of range of a hero so only had a 6+ shrug).

My deepstrike package wiped out his Vulkites and one of his heroes and had 2 grimwraths to deal with when the game crashed. Meanwhile, his second block of HGB had just rolled boxcars to get stuck in with my melee line (although a fair few would not be in range for the first swing).

In the end I think he was likely a favorite to win, but it was far from decided.

Overall I came away with the following impressions:

• In this particular matchup and battleplan combo I might have been better served to just deploy on the table instead of deepstriking
• The melee threat was pretty solid. It may not have been as efficient as ranged units can be at dealing damage, but it was able to punish him for overextending in a way that ranged units would have more difficulty doing
• I definitely would have preferred to have the high drop version of the list and not have the turn choice in this matchup. Having small units to block charges would have been very, very strong.
• EDIT: Also I think taking an extra CP is pretty close to mandatory

Edited August 5, 2020 by swarmofseals

[swarmofseals]

Got another game in today, this time vs. a Hallowheart list:

His list (approximate)

Spoiler

Anointed

Luminark w/ battlmage

Hurricanum w/ battlemage

Knight-Incantor

Battlemage (aqshy)

20 Sisters of the Watch

3x10 PG

5 Sisters of the Thorn

Extra CP

Whitefire Retinue

 

My list

Spoiler

Anointed on Frostie - general, ironoak artisan, spear of the hunt

Hurricanum w/ battlemage - lifesurge

Freeguild General

30 Freeguild Crossbows

4x10 Freeguild Handgunners

3 Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows

3 Aetherwings

6 Morsarr Guard (allies)

Extra CP

Game Description

Spoiler

The battleplan was Shifting Objectives. Lots of buildings on the board ("bretonnian village" terrain setup if anyone is familiar with that option).

I won the roll to choose the realm and chose Ghur as it seemed least likely to help my opponent.

He deployed with each unit of PG in position to run forward and take an objective with basically everything else in the center (ish). I deployed with my Aetherwings on the left flank, my Longstrikes in the back center of my territory, the Morrsarr Guard center left and Frostie center right and a unit of handgunners in the center and on the right flank. The rest set up in reserve.

He took the first turn, moved up and scored big the first two turns, but didn't really get to do any real damage first turn as his sisters and casters were all out of range. I dropped in my crossbows, hurricanum, general, and 2 units of handgunners and took his sisters and battlemage off the table on my turn 1 while moving up my aetherwings and morsarrs on the left and getting the phoenix stuck in in the middle. I kicked myself for not measuring after dropping in my hurricanum as it ended up at 18.1" from target, wasting those juicy storms of shemtek.

I lost the priority roll and he took the first go in round 2.

His spells did a lot of damage during his turn 2, taking out about half of my drop-in shooters and the freeguild general. He took the objectives back from me.

In my second turn I re-took the left objective and took the center objective but failed to completely kill off the two units of phoenix guard there. My shooters finished off his hurricanum and damaged his luminark.

I lost the priority roll again for the third round and he again chose to go first. At this point he was basically trying to hold on as long as possible as I was way ahead on the board. Between his turn and my turn I finished off the left unit of PG during his combat phase, shot off the remaining center PG and Luminark and began shifting to take the right objective. He charged my anointed with his anointed and knight-incantor and dealt a bit of damage but lost his incantor and a few wounds on his anointed. During my half of the round I charged the right objective with my phoenix and both dished and took a bit of damage.

I won the priority on turn 4 and he conceded. At this point it was basically over as despite some major mistakes I was set to hold all three objectives for the remaining two turns, which would provide enough points to surpass him.

Impressions and lessons

Spoiler

• The phoenix again performed nicely, dishing out some decent damage and soaking a ton of offense despite mediocre rolls.
• The crossbowmen did a lot of heavy lifting damagewise while the handgunners did very little
• The morrsarr guard rolled really poorly but got the job done
• Longstrikes were fine but not efficient in this matchup, but that's fine -- they aren't here for this matchup.
• The general plan of deepstriking the ranged package worked nicely against this opponent as it allowed me to get the drop on his Sisters of the Watch despite not having the first go. That said, the ranged package drops in quite far from the objectives if you drop behind your opponent in a single cluster. It probably would have been smarter to drop in the handgunners on one of the flanks with the general and the crossbowmen and hurricanum in the rear. This is not a favorable battleplan for the LC deepstrike ranged strategy. The biggest takeaway by far was that I need to be more thoughtful about my deepstriking instead of going for the most damage efficient play
• Darkshards would have been preferable to handgunners in this matchup, but I don't think I needed the extra boost and I'd much rather have handgunners against melee armies.
• Overall the matchup and battleplan combination felt very favorable. I think it might have actually been even more favorable against a typical ranged-focused Hallowheart bridge list. He would have been able to do heavier damage on turn 1 (probably taking out my MG or phoenix) but the counter attack would have been much more brutal and I likely wouldn't have been playing from behind on objectives.
• Artefact choice on the Phoenix is interesting. Spear of the Hunt isn't bad, and I can definitely see a lot of value in being able to activate the phoenix and then the MG immediately, but the Chamon artefact would really make the Phoenix that much harder to kill. I definitely would have preferred the Chamon artefact in this matchup.

 

[swarmofseals]

Yet another LC list for your perusal, this one quite melee heavy:

Spoiler

Anointed on Frostie (general, ironoak artisan, spear of the hunt)

Sorceress (lifesurge)

30 PG

20 Crossbows

10 Darkshards

6 Morsarr Guard

4 Fulminators

3 Aetherwings

Extra CP

One takeaway from my previous game that I forgot to mention is that the extra CP feels much less necessary if you don't plan to drop in a melee unit.

[Rune]

14 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

Got another game in today, this time vs. a Hallowheart list:

His list (approximate)

  Reveal hidden contents

Anointed

Luminark w/ battlmage

Hurricanum w/ battlemage

Knight-Incantor

Battlemage (aqshy)

20 Sisters of the Watch

3x10 PG

5 Sisters of the Thorn

Extra CP

Whitefire Retinue

 

My list

  Reveal hidden contents

Anointed on Frostie - general, ironoak artisan, spear of the hunt

Hurricanum w/ battlemage - lifesurge

Freeguild General

30 Freeguild Crossbows

4x10 Freeguild Handgunners

3 Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows

3 Aetherwings

6 Morsarr Guard (allies)

Extra CP

Game Description

  Reveal hidden contents

The battleplan was Shifting Objectives. Lots of buildings on the board ("bretonnian village" terrain setup if anyone is familiar with that option).

I won the roll to choose the realm and chose Ghur as it seemed least likely to help my opponent.

He deployed with each unit of PG in position to run forward and take an objective with basically everything else in the center (ish). I deployed with my Aetherwings on the left flank, my Longstrikes in the back center of my territory, the Morrsarr Guard center left and Frostie center right and a unit of handgunners in the center and on the right flank. The rest set up in reserve.

He took the first turn, moved up and scored big the first two turns, but didn't really get to do any real damage first turn as his sisters and casters were all out of range. I dropped in my crossbows, hurricanum, general, and 2 units of handgunners and took his sisters and battlemage off the table on my turn 1 while moving up my aetherwings and morsarrs on the left and getting the phoenix stuck in in the middle. I kicked myself for not measuring after dropping in my hurricanum as it ended up at 18.1" from target, wasting those juicy storms of shemtek.

I lost the priority roll and he took the first go in round 2.

His spells did a lot of damage during his turn 2, taking out about half of my drop-in shooters and the freeguild general. He took the objectives back from me.

In my second turn I re-took the left objective and took the center objective but failed to completely kill off the two units of phoenix guard there. My shooters finished off his hurricanum and damaged his luminark.

I lost the priority roll again for the third round and he again chose to go first. At this point he was basically trying to hold on as long as possible as I was way ahead on the board. Between his turn and my turn I finished off the left unit of PG during his combat phase, shot off the remaining center PG and Luminark and began shifting to take the right objective. He charged my anointed with his anointed and knight-incantor and dealt a bit of damage but lost his incantor and a few wounds on his anointed. During my half of the round I charged the right objective with my phoenix and both dished and took a bit of damage.

I won the priority on turn 4 and he conceded. At this point it was basically over as despite some major mistakes I was set to hold all three objectives for the remaining two turns, which would provide enough points to surpass him.

Impressions and lessons

  Hide contents

• The phoenix again performed nicely, dishing out some decent damage and soaking a ton of offense despite mediocre rolls.
• The crossbowmen did a lot of heavy lifting damagewise while the handgunners did very little
• The morrsarr guard rolled really poorly but got the job done
• Longstrikes were fine but not efficient in this matchup, but that's fine -- they aren't here for this matchup.
• The general plan of deepstriking the ranged package worked nicely against this opponent as it allowed me to get the drop on his Sisters of the Watch despite not having the first go. That said, the ranged package drops in quite far from the objectives if you drop behind your opponent in a single cluster. It probably would have been smarter to drop in the handgunners on one of the flanks with the general and the crossbowmen and hurricanum in the rear. This is not a favorable battleplan for the LC deepstrike ranged strategy. The biggest takeaway by far was that I need to be more thoughtful about my deepstriking instead of going for the most damage efficient play
• Darkshards would have been preferable to handgunners in this matchup, but I don't think I needed the extra boost and I'd much rather have handgunners against melee armies.
• Overall the matchup and battleplan combination felt very favorable. I think it might have actually been even more favorable against a typical ranged-focused Hallowheart bridge list. He would have been able to do heavier damage on turn 1 (probably taking out my MG or phoenix) but the counter attack would have been much more brutal and I likely wouldn't have been playing from behind on objectives.
• Artefact choice on the Phoenix is interesting. Spear of the Hunt isn't bad, and I can definitely see a lot of value in being able to activate the phoenix and then the MG immediately, but the Chamon artefact would really make the Phoenix that much harder to kill. I definitely would have preferred the Chamon artefact in this matchup.

 

"but the Chamon artefact would really make the Phoenix that much harder to kill. I definitely would have preferred the Chamon artefact in this matchup."

Just a FYI you are limited to Ghyran as Living City. Which could be a fun addition, as it would heal you two wounds a turn then. Probably not what you'd prefer but it is decent.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Rune

[swarmofseals]

58 minutes ago, Rune said:

"but the Chamon artefact would really make the Phoenix that much harder to kill. I definitely would have preferred the Chamon artefact in this matchup."

Just a FYI you are limited to Ghyran as Living City. Which could be a fun addition, as it would heal you two wounds a turn then. Probably not what you'd prefer but it is decent.

Ohh right, completely forgot about that! Problem solved.

[Zeblasky]

So, I've almost completed my first AoS army, yay. Have quite a few extra models, buuuut I still need to decide on what the final army will look like. I've decided on what core units will be, but I still have 490 points that I am not quite sure about. So everything below a line is up for discussion.

So, first off, lets start with the main army idea.

 

Nomad Prince General - 120pts

Dreadlord on a Black Dragon - 300pts.

Anointed on Frostheart Phoenix - 320pts

20 Sisters of the Watch - 320pts

20 Sisters of the Watch - 320pts

5 Sisters of the Thorn 130pts

-------------------------------------------------------

5 Sisters of the Thorn - 130pts

Treelord Ancient - 260pts

Emerald Lifeswarm -  50pts

Extra CP - 50pts

 

The core units are all very solid and have a great role. Sisters deploying from the reserve for devastating shooting, Ancient Treelord for screening, Dreadlord for screening o backline striking. The only thing weak here however is Treelord Ancient. While fitting nicely by points, his melee profile is quite noticeably weaker if compared to a regular Treelord and his extra kit is not required here. So what if we change it a bit?

-------------------------------------------------------

5 Sisters of the Thorn - 130pts

5 Sisters of the Thorn - 130pts

Treelord -180pts

Extra CP - 50pts

 

Now, for the cost of 50 points, we have both a better monster and another great combat wizard, giving quite a boost both to this army potential offensive capability, its survavibility and more bodies for objectives. The bad things however:
1) Treelord needs a hero nearby for Living City CA to be used on him (and with both Dreadlord, Prince, Annointed and 18 range this should not be a problem)

2) I cannot give any artifacts to the Treelord (although considering that I would choose Spear of the Hunt and Treelords kinda have it  on a 4+ anyway, this does not matter that much).

3) I have to discard either Lifeswarm or extra CP. And I think that CP is quite more important here for the alpha strike?


But! What if, instead of replacing Ancient Treeelord, we simply make him... more viable?

-------------------------------------------------------

Anointed - 100pts

Treelord Ancient - 260pts

Brancwraith - 80pts.

Emerald Lifeswarm -  50pts

 

Good things: I have Annointed as Adjutant, so initial extra CP is only on 50% chance, but it's still a CP generator for the rest of the game and hard to kill cheap hero. I also have Branchwraith to be deployed somewhere close to an objective, where Anchient Treelord will deploy a Wyldwood, in which Branchwraith will stay up to a forth or fifth turn, just summoning Dryads in relative safety. And as long as I get 2 summons before the fifth turn, it should be worth it. Shame I have no way to boost Branchwraith casting though.

Bad things: I need most of my units to be on the board turn 1, including Treelord, so he could place the Wyldwood right from the start. That means relatively weaker Turn 1 potentian alpha strike.  And overall I feel that Dryad Factory strategy with Living City would be nuch better in 1000pts games.

So, what version of this build do you think is the best one? Or any ideas on how to improve my combinations?

[swarmofseals]

@Zeblasky I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think any of those versions is going to work very well assuming you are playing pitched battles. The key problem is that you're going to struggle mightily to score points when you have so few bodies on the board, and the bodies that you do have are going to be coming in at the table edge and have to stay put in order to deal good damage.

[Zeblasky]

@swarmofseals I am a bit confused at your reaction, considering that you have said this about the first version of my build half a year ago x)

 

On 1/30/2020 at 8:00 PM, swarmofseals said:

Looks pretty solid, I think. I'd suggest some changes but it depends a bit on how flexible you are about what models you include.

As for the actual point, well, sure, my army is more about killing, then about taking and contesting the objectives. Still, I feel that I have enough to hold and screen my side of the field, while pulling my opponent apart, boggling him down with 3 tanky Behemoths and making him more focused on defending his own side of the field instead. Or shutting down SotW for that matter, as if you just let them sit and shoot uncontested, by the end of a third turn you probably won't have enough troops to contest anyway. And if I would really need some bodies on the objective, well, I can move one of the SotW units 12 inches every turn after the first one thanks to the Living City CA.

[The Red King]

2 hours ago, Zeblasky said:

@swarmofseals I am a bit confused at your reaction, considering that you have said this about the first version of my build half a year ago x)

 

As for the actual point, well, sure, my army is more about killing, then about taking and contesting the objectives. Still, I feel that I have enough to hold and screen my side of the field, while pulling my opponent apart, boggling him down with 3 tanky Behemoths and making him more focused on defending his own side of the field instead. Or shutting down SotW for that matter, as if you just let them sit and shoot uncontested, by the end of a third turn you probably won't have enough troops to contest anyway. And if I would really need some bodies on the objective, well, I can move one of the SotW units 12 inches every turn after the first one thanks to the Living City CA.

Unrelated but are you the Total war player who's regularly on Turin's tournaments?

[Zeblasky]

5 hours ago, The Red King said:

Unrelated but are you the Total war player who's regularly on Turin's tournaments?

Yeeep. May be I'll be able to to play in the ESL today, but not sure if I will make it. And here I'm trying to get into "Wanderers" as well x) Also hoping that Wood Elfs will make a true comeback with the Old World in a few years.

 

[The Red King]

2 minutes ago, Zeblasky said:

Yeeep. May be I'll be able to to play in the ESL today, but not sure if I will make it. And here I'm trying to get into "Wanderers" as well x) Also hoping that Wood Elfs will make a true comeback with the Old World in a few years.

 

Sweet. I love those videos and the community. And yeah as an avid wood elf player on the tabletop and TW I hope they get some stuff in the future. 

[swarmofseals]

11 hours ago, Zeblasky said:

@swarmofseals I am a bit confused at your reaction, considering that you have said this about the first version of my build half a year ago x)

 

As for the actual point, well, sure, my army is more about killing, then about taking and contesting the objectives. Still, I feel that I have enough to hold and screen my side of the field, while pulling my opponent apart, boggling him down with 3 tanky Behemoths and making him more focused on defending his own side of the field instead. Or shutting down SotW for that matter, as if you just let them sit and shoot uncontested, by the end of a third turn you probably won't have enough troops to contest anyway. And if I would really need some bodies on the objective, well, I can move one of the SotW units 12 inches every turn after the first one thanks to the Living City CA.

A lot has changed in the last year both in terms of the meta and in terms of my own experience. The more games I play, the more I realize that deepstriking using the LC ability is a mixed blessing. Usually I can completely annihilate part of the opponent's army with my shooting, but doing so leaves a large part of my army way out of position (especially if you deploy on one of the side edges of the board). Often times you are then forced to move (or even run) your shooters just to get them in range of another target. With SotW, if you are moving you also are losing half of your offense.

The Anointed on Frostheart is legitimately tanky, but the other two behemoths will die quickly to any real offense. A charge from something like eels, hearthguard, Witch Aelves, Brutes/Ardboys, stonehorns, greatswords, Mortek Guard, etc. etc. will easily kill your tanky behemoths (except possibly the phoenix). For example, against hearthguard even if your opponent doesn't have a CP to make the hearthguard fight first and the tree stomp goes off and the hearthguard have no buffs aside from the ones on their own warscroll:

Treelord activates and deals a total of 4.25 unsaved wounds to the hearthguard, killing two guys (this includes the Treelord shooting attack btw). The hearthguard activate pile in, say, 10 guys. They deal a total of 9.33 unsaved wounds to the Treelord with broadaxes or 10.11 unsaved wounds with poleaxes. If closer to the entire unit piles in or they have any buffs at all the Treelord is a dead duck in one go.

Even if the hearthguard just sat there taking it and never got to activate it would take the treelord 10 activations to wipe the unit out, or just over 7 activations to reduce the unit below 6 models such that the Treelord AND a unit of Sisters of the Thorn could gain control of the objective.

There are a lot of units in the game right now that put loads of defensively efficient wounds on the board, and in my experience lists like this just won't work in that context.

[Popisdead]

On 8/9/2020 at 7:11 AM, swarmofseals said:

A lot has changed in the last year both in terms of the meta and in terms of my own experience. The more games I play, the more I realize that deepstriking using the LC ability is a mixed blessing.

...

 

Treelord activates and deals a total of 4.25 unsaved wounds to the hearthguard, killing two guys (this includes the Treelord shooting attack btw).

I think it's an amazing tool that has mutli-facets.  Psychological for one.  Plus the list allows for so much it really presents many ways to use it.  I would say it's arguably the strongest part of the list.  When I played Darkwalker Waherd the ambushing pressure was what made it good.  However I would say it's easy to do wrong (i'm great at that last one  )

Your treelord does better than mine   I wish he was the defensive pillar of old.  

[SentinelGuy]

Treelord really does need toughening up a bit. When I take him it's usually for the stomp and because some people think he's more dangerous than he really is.

[Nezgor]

 

Hi guys, I have two lists, which one do you like the most?

Spoiler

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Knight-Azyros (100)
Lord-Castellant (120)
Drycha Hamadreth (300)
- Lore of Leaves: Ironoak Skin
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- General
- Shield & Runesword
- Command Trait: Ironoak Artisan
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Leaves: Lifesurge

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
4 x Concussors (440)
1 x Gyrobombers (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Cities of Sigmar
- City: Living City
Mortal Realm: Ghyran

Leaders
Knight-Azyros (100)
Drycha Hamadreth (300)
- Lore of Leaves: Ironoak Skin
Freeguild General on Griffon (320)
- General
- Shield & Runesword
- Command Trait: Ironoak Artisan
- Artefact: Spear of the Hunt
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (280)
- Lore of Leaves: Lifesurge

Battleline
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)
10 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
4 x Desolators (380)
3 x Kurnoth Hunters (190)
- Greatswords
1 x Gyrobombers (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
 

Thx for the anwers.