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Crazyflyingpanda

Help with First Death Allegiance Army?

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Hello, I recently decided to try out age of sigmar since I have been playing the Total Warhammer series recently.  I bought a couple boxes that a friend wasn't using for cheap on a whim about a year or so ago (Flesh Eater Courts SC and black knights/ hexwraiths) but am not entirely sure how they will fit together in an army now after reading into allegiances and army comps I might try. Right now I'm thinking of picking up Arkhan the Black and pairing him with a vampire lord on zombie dragon (maybe Neferata down the line)from the SC but neither are part of flesh eaters courts, so if I wanted to use crypt ghouls and vargheists for example, I would lose loyalty bonuses for using units from multiple factions rather than just one from the death allegiance (correct me if I'm wrong I'm very new to this). 

While I would rather design an army I like playing more so than a competitive one, it makes sense that an army is more enjoyable when the units compliment each other play wise and isn't mish-mash of abilities game play wise.  Would there be an way to use ghouls and some of units from the various legions of nagash together in a viable way or am I better off ditching them since they probaby cost me around $5-10 effectively? While I understand that it may not be relevant or necessarily transferable, in Total War: Warhammer II I generally play using meat shield/ defensive frontline units holding the line for monsters supported by magic users to do theirthing (my Favorurite factions are Tomb Kings, Vampire counts and coast, as well as Lizardmen and Skaven).As far as I know death allegiance supports this play style well but I may be wrong and at least I am only $30 in the hole.  Any advice or help would be appreciated, this is my first game like of Age of Sigmar so it's a bit difficult to orientate myself with the rules.

P.S. Sorry for any formatting issues, my computer is acting bizarrely right now.

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Death can fit your described play style quite well but keep in mind Age of Sigmar is not Total War Warhammer.  The biggest difference is they got rid of all of the rank and file stuff and now the game is much more fluid in its movements and a bit more focused on the heroes.  A blob of skeletons, ghouls, reapers or graveguard is great for holding an objective but they aren't really going to tie up a front line like they would in total war, the battles are fought in a different way.

In regards to your question about your force, I wouldn't worry about being in the hole for $30, this hobby is far far more expensive than that haha.
You can ally in the flesh eater courts and I think you can even run them as a big combined death army but typically most people wouldn't run the big death army.  Usually you pick one of the legions in the book (Nagash, Sacrement, Blood, Night, Soulblight) or you pick one of the sub factions with their own book (Flesh eater courts, Nighthaunt, the new tithe army) and build your army from there.  Your choice is to either go down the FEC route (not a bad shout, an incredibly powerful army), pick a legion or possibly even wait for the new army (tithe) and see what that is about.  Your death collection will grow and allow you to field a bunch of different forces as it does grow (for example I have a blood army and if I go out and buy some vargheists I can easily transition it into a soulblight army).

I suggest you read through the lore (fluff) and rules for all of the legions and see which ones takes your fancy and come up with some rough lists around it.

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21 hours ago, Crazyflyingpanda said:

Hello, I recently decided to try out age of sigmar since I have been playing the Total Warhammer series recently.  I bought a couple boxes that a friend wasn't using for cheap on a whim about a year or so ago (Flesh Eater Courts SC and black knights/ hexwraiths) but am not entirely sure how they will fit together in an army now after reading into allegiances and army comps I might try. Right now I'm thinking of picking up Arkhan the Black and pairing him with a vampire lord on zombie dragon (maybe Neferata down the line)from the SC but neither are part of flesh eaters courts, so if I wanted to use crypt ghouls and vargheists for example, I would lose loyalty bonuses for using units from multiple factions rather than just one from the death allegiance (correct me if I'm wrong I'm very new to this). 

While I would rather design an army I like playing more so than a competitive one, it makes sense that an army is more enjoyable when the units compliment each other play wise and isn't mish-mash of abilities game play wise.  Would there be an way to use ghouls and some of units from the various legions of nagash together in a viable way or am I better off ditching them since they probaby cost me around $5-10 effectively? While I understand that it may not be relevant or necessarily transferable, in Total War: Warhammer II I generally play using meat shield/ defensive frontline units holding the line for monsters supported by magic users to do theirthing (my Favorurite factions are Tomb Kings, Vampire counts and coast, as well as Lizardmen and Skaven).As far as I know death allegiance supports this play style well but I may be wrong and at least I am only $30 in the hole.  Any advice or help would be appreciated, this is my first game like of Age of Sigmar so it's a bit difficult to orientate myself with the rules.

P.S. Sorry for any formatting issues, my computer is acting bizarrely right now.

You can run ghouls as mercenaries if anything, but death factions do not really go together too well.

Also before you commit you should check out the latest release for death, it an absolute delight. 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/08/29/breaking-news-sisters-psykers-and-skeletonsgw-homepage-post-4/

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You can run a generic Death army with any Death units, but unless you have & want to run some of the retro tomb kings units I wouldn't recommend this.  You can make it work, but modern death units are, if anything, more dependent on the more narrow faction bonuses than most non-death units in the game.  Right now your main options for more specific factions are:

Flesh Eater Courts - currently the strongest Death army in the rules if you make the optimal choices, but also the narrowest choice, lacking in units and unit options, with little presence in the fiction due in part to their lack of named characters.  Because there are so few options to work with, the faction is also extremely vulnerable to rule changes over time.  If a new faction shows up with the tools to shut down their very specific gimmicks, or if their couple of good units are hit with a nerf or price hike, then you don't have much else to fall back on.  Because there are so few different units and such little aesthetic variety within the units that exist the army can get a bit dull to complete on the hobby end.  Back to a more positive note, though, even with as few units as they have to choose from there's still some mechanical variety in there, between hordy infantry, monstrous infantry, and outright monsters.  And the concept and personality of the faction, cannibalistic horrors who in their madness see themselves as noble knights, is pretty great.  It's definitely a faction you can invest in emotionally.  Shame it's so hard to get your hands on old Brettonian models these days, as I'd love to do a Flesh Eater Courts army represented as they see themselves, with serf militia ghouls, knightly horrors, pegasus knight flayers, etc.

Legions of Nagash - actually four different allegiances - one each for Nagash, Arkhan, Neferata, and Mannfred - which share the same units and core faction rules (death save, grave sites), but a few unique rules, items, and command abilities that will favor different units & battle tactics.  All of the Legions lean heavily on recursion of 'summonable' units - both in terms of bringing back models to injured units and bringing back entire slain units.  Most of the legions are pretty heavily character dependent, relying on heroes to buff and revive units that, on their own, would be somewhat weak & fragile for their points.  Beyond that, Nagash's Grand Host favors skeletons and morghasts, Arkhan's Legion of Sacrament focuses on spellcasting, Neferata's Legion of Blood buffs vampires.  and Mannfred's Legion of the Night gives a minor defensive buff to skeletons to help them tar pit enemy units while your own hammer units outflank and surround them.  Each legion has a single signature battalion, which are all kinda baddish sadly, plus they share a skeletons battalion which is half way decent but requires a pretty big investment in units & points.  It's worth looking at if you like Black Knights in particular.  The theoretical variety of the Legions is huge as there are dozens of units to choose from and four different sets of faction rules to run them with, but in practice not so much, as many of the units are rather redundant, most of them at any given time are kind of bad (though which units are kind of bad varies with points adjustments from season to season), and while you can theoretically run the same army as any of the different legions from game to game as a change of pace, the fact that the legions favor different units & tactics means it's not usually particularly viable to take a list written for one legion and run it as another without at least some modifications - though an army built on skeleton warrior blocks with Morghast Harbinger hammers supplemented by various heroes is an exception, shifting pretty well between Grand Host and Legion of the Night in particular.  Honestly, while the legions had a brief and quite impressive heyday when they were first released, they're not especially strong in the current Skaven & Slaanesh meta.  Still, if you're looking for that classic warhammer 'endless hordes of mindless zombies and faceless skeletons marching implacably at the command of a few powerful & compelling vampires & necromancers' thing, one of the Legions of Nagash will be the faction for you.

Soulblight Vampires - the Legions of Nagash book technically has a set of faction rules for a pure vampire army.  Unfortunately, while those rules have a fair bit of personality, the unit & model selection really just isn't there for it right now, so if you like vampires I'd recommend playing a vampire-heavy Legion of Blood list instead, and just hope we see a proper Soulblight faction release in the future.

Nighthaunts - The all ghost army is super distinctive.  Where most undead are kind of slow, the nighthaunts are relatively fast and everything flies.  Where most undead are kind of fragile the nighthaunts are ethereal, making them relatively resilient, and ironically /more/ resilient the more elite their opponents are.  Where most undead are kind of offensively weak nighthaunts have a variety of units with rend or the ability to inflict mortal wounds.  Like most other undead, though, Nighthaunts still rely pretty heavily on buffs from their heroes, which, ethereal not withstanding, are still kind of fragile.  Offensively, their most defining feature is the ability to deep strike half their units, combined with their ability to fight a free bonus round of combat if they roll high on their charge rolls.  This makes the Nighthaunt faction extremely dice dependent, as the same high rolls that let you surprise charge opponents the turn you arrive also let you hit twice as hard when you do.  So if you roll big, you win big, but if you don't roll big your units show up and just stand there stupidly while the enemy has all the time in the world to pick off your buffing heroes before killing your units piecemeal.  The result is an aggressive and dramatic army, but a very unreliable one.  To help things out, I strongly recommend picking up Reikenor the Grimhailer and using his spellcasting buff to try to cast the Chronomantic Cogs.  On that note, the Nighthaunts do have a number of fun named characters, and their units look great and have a lot of twisted humor and personality to them.  I especially love the ghosts of healers who, as punishment for defying death during their lives, are now cursed with blades for hands so that they can only ever hurt those they touch.

Legion of Grief - sort of a half way between Nighthaunts and the Legions of Nagash, this is basically the Nighthaunt army, plus a few Legions units, with Legion style faction rules.  Ie, you lose deep strike & bonus combat round for big charge rolls, and in exchange gain heavy recursion abilities for your summonable units.  The result is much a much less aggressive, but also much more reliable ghostly army.  As with swapping armies between the various Legions, if you stick to mostly Nighthaunt units you can theoretically run the same army as either Legion of Grief or Nighthaunt (with maybe some Legion allies) from game to game, though again that's somewhat limited as the two different styles favor somewhat different unit selection.  If you want to play a ghost army, or just want an army mostly consisting of better, newer models, but you still want that classic 'horde of recursive minions serving a few powerful casters' oldhammer undead style, then Legion of Grief is for you.

Tomb Kings - I mention this only because the rules still technically exist, and are technically still legal, but if you're starting a new Age of Sigmar army I don't recommend Tomb Kings.  Their concepts are being cannibalized for other factions, and their models are no longer in production and are at this point hella expensive on the secondary markets, where they're available at all.  That said, Tomb Kings were/are a fairly distinctive undead faction in that they supplemented the shared 'slow, recursive horde of skeletons with buffy commanders' oldhammer undead core concept with some halfway decent ranged support from archers & catapults, animated stone constructs as heavy infantry & monsters to anchor your battle line, plus chariots, necropolis knights, and burrowing scorpions and tomb swarms as faster flanking options.  It was a neat army, and their Age of Sigmar rules - while somewhat out of date in the sense that their rules as currently written don't all work or make sense in 2nd edition AoS - still have some decent gems in them, even forced to rely on generic grand alliance rules rather than more specific faction allegiances.  The chariots and necropolis knights are particularly nice, recovering an entire 5 wound model every turn, plus a second 5 wound model if you happen to have a herald nearby.

Ossiarch Bonereapers - the new boys on the block, these look to be a more elite undead faction.  While you can run more elite nighthaunt armies based on their cavalry or heavier infantry, or flesh eater armies based entirely on monstrous infantry or outright monsters, both of those factions are at least theoretically grounded in hordes of lighter infantry - chainrasps and crypt ghouls respectively.  In contrast, even the lightest Ossiarchs look from the preview to be relatively heavy units.  More of an undead answer to the Stormcast Eternals - which will probably be a key part of their fluff as well.  But honestly, we don't really know yet what exactly their rules or personality will be since they aren't out yet, and from the sound of it won't be out until November, with pre-orders likely going up around Halloween.  Aesthetically at least they're the most Age of Sigmary / Mortal Realmsy undead faction we've seen yet, so if you're looking to replicate the feel of the undead armies in Total Warhammer, they're probably not what you're looking for.  That said, they will be the 'next big thing', and as a maybe smaller army of probably more elite units they might be a bit more affordable than massive hordes of skeletons, ghouls, & ghosts to collect.  Even if their prices are ridiculous to the point that they aren't cheaper to buy than a horde army, they'll still almost certainly be less models to paint, and while they've got a lot of detail to them, the new contrast paints do bone arguably better & faster than anything else, so that might be something to consider.  As such, you might want to wait for their release before making up your mind.

 

For starting armies, I'm not familiar enough with the current FEC or Nighthaunt rules & prices to make meaningful suggestions.  That said, if you're looking to replicate that Total Warhammer feel, I'd strongly recommend the Legions anyway, and for a new Legion player I'd suggest starting with the following:

  • Vampire Lord - winged or on steed as you prefer.  Legion of Grief don't get vampires and so would opt for a Knight of Shrouds instead.  Wight Kings look cool, but right now Vampires are pretty much an objectively better version of the same thing.
  • Necromancer - Grief do have a decent alternative in the Guardian of Souls, but Danse Macabre is so good that I'd still get at least one necromancer.
  • Max Horde Unit - see below
  • 2x5 Dire Wolves - conveniently they come in a box of 10, though the models are n't the best, so maybe use Fenrisian Wolves instead.

Re: Choice of Horde unit.  If you're aiming for Legion of Grief then you should probably be looking at 40 chainrasps, for thematic purposes if nothing else.  For Grand Host and Legion of the Night, 40 skeleton warriors, as deathrattle units are specifically buffed by those factions.  Legion of Sacrament and Legion of Blood can take your aethetic preference between skeletons or chainrasps.  I'd *like* to be able to recommend 60 zombies for Sacrament in particular, since both zombies and your spellcasters can be buffed by a corpse cart with lodestones, but the zombie rules and models are in kind of an iffy place right now, and I don't expect them to be meaningfully improved any time soon.

...

That's a pretty solid core of units that should prove useful in any of the legions.  Kind of pricey with all those skeletons or chainrasps, but that's what you get for picking a horde army.  After that core, I'd look to expand with a more elite unit & cool centerpiece model depending on your preferred Legion:

  • Blood: Blood Knights, vampire lord on Zombie Dragon
  • Night: Morghast Harbingers with halberds, Terrorgheist
  • Sacrament: more Necromancers (try the empire wizard box for variety), Mortis Engine
  • Grief: Bladegheist Revenants, Reikenor the Grimhailer
  • Grand Host: Grave Guard with great weapons or Morghasts (either type) with halberds, Any of the Deathlord Mortarchs*

* Theoretically the Deathlord Mortarchs - Arkhan, Mannfred, or Neferata - would fit as well or better in their own legions, but I prefer them in Grand Host where they don't have to be your general, that way you can take them and still have a proper general with a command ability who maybe won't draw quite so much attention from the enemy army

Regardless of faction, as your army increases in size you'll want to add more max blocks of your main infantry horde, be they Skeletons or Chainrasps, because Legions of Nagash IS a horde army and buffing & regenerating those hordes will be key to your game plan.  Theoretically you could take Zombies instead, but their rules are in a bit of an iffy place right now, and aren't likely to see touch up until GW is ready to put out new models for them, which I don't personally expect to see this year, though you never know.  Grand Host specifically could theoretically take Grave Guard in place of Skeletons as their main horde unit, but while their points have come down a fair bit recently, I don't personally feel they've come down far enough to build an entire army around them.  There was a good while where Grimghast Reapers were the horde of choice for all legions, even though they aren't battleline and should be more of an elite.  They're points have come up considerably since then, so while they might still be a good unit (not a debate for here and now), as with Grave Guard I don't personally recommend building your entire army around them these days.

By the time you start pushing 2000+ points, you'll want to look into your army's namesake as a capstone - Nagash for the Grand Host or the Mortarch of X for the Legion of X.  These characters are expensive and tend to be a bit fragile for their points, and they have to be your general, so they're typically not the most optimal of choices in competitive lists, but they're a must for big narrative games.

 

Also note that if you're getting a Deathlord Mortarch (Arkhan, Neferata, or Mannfred) you might as well get the Start Collecting: Skeleton Horde box.  It's only like us$10 more than getting the model separately & comes with two extra units.  Even if you don't end up finding a use for those extra units in your own army, you should be able to find another Death player to trade them to for more than your $10 worth in return.  The other start collecting boses aren't as good as deals, being us$30 more than the big thing included, so I'd only get them if you actually want the other units, which... eh.  None of these boxes are actually great ways to start your collection, as you should really be focused on getting a solid horde block & some buffing heroes together before worrying about big centerpiece models.  The 'Blades of the Blood Queen' box was actually a decent way to start a Grand Host army, but I don't think that box is still available.

 

Note that these recommendations aren't aimed at making a top tier tournament list - honestly I'm not really sure I'd put any of the Legions in the top tier these days, but rather a solid bring & battle list with a variety of decent units that should look cool on the table while giving you a feel for what the army is about and how it's meant to function in game.

Edited by Sception
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Awesome post Sception, I love reading reviews and comments like yours. 

 

Cheers. 

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hello, that do you think is better 1000pts for starting playing woth LoN? interest in legion of sacrament, cause spell casting specification 

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6 minutes ago, simakover said:

hello, that do you think is better 1000pts for starting playing woth LoN?

I laugh at your innocent questions... muhuhahahahaaa!!!

 

For LoS at 1k you could consider fielding Arkhan, he still is the only competitive Mortarch (IMO,ymmv). 

Then the tricky part comes...

i totally love .60cal zombers with corpse cart, they just eat everything. Throw in a necromancer and a vampire and you‘re already at 1010...

so arkhan, necro, vamp, 40 skellis and 5 dogs (960)... maybe something endless (vortex or shackles).

if you’re scratching Arkhan, you could go: 2 necros, Vampire, 60 zombies, corpsecart, 5 wolves and chronomatic cogs (950+CP) they will make them zombies run. They will 2+\3+ everything and with Van hels and the vamps CA nothing will survive... also your regen will be pretty high (7d3 rerolling)

otherwise, read the book @Sception wrote two posts above and you’ll be set. There are various playstyles and tactics possible, needs to fit your tastes...

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1 hour ago, Honk said:

I laugh at your innocent questions... muhuhahahahaaa!!!

 

For LoS at 1k you could consider fielding Arkhan, he still is the only competitive Mortarch (IMO,ymmv). 

Then the tricky part comes...

i totally love .60cal zombers with corpse cart, they just eat everything. Throw in a necromancer and a vampire and you‘re already at 1010...

so arkhan, necro, vamp, 40 skellis and 5 dogs (960)... maybe something endless (vortex or shackles).

if you’re scratching Arkhan, you could go: 2 necros, Vampire, 60 zombies, corpsecart, 5 wolves and chronomatic cogs (950+CP) they will make them zombies run. They will 2+\3+ everything and with Van hels and the vamps CA nothing will survive... also your regen will be pretty high (7d3 rerolling)

otherwise, read the book @Sception wrote two posts above and you’ll be set. There are various playstyles and tactics possible, needs to fit your tastes...

 

interest, thank. is there best way to buy this stuff? like some battleforce/SC or kit bash some

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I do recommend starting any of the legions with a vampire lord, necromancer, 2x5 dire wolves, and one max unit of horde infantry (40 skeletons, 40 chainrasps, or 60 zombies).  Exception is grief, who don't get vamp lords in faction, so I would grab a knight of shrouds or dreadblade harrow instead.

As mentioned in the previous post, choice of which horde unit for sacrament is up in the air.  Zombies are theoretically the natural fit, as both zombies and your casters can be buffed by a lodestone corpse cart, but even with that buff I personally find them to be somewhat lackluster compared to tge other two options.  Maybe if their minimum unit size were 20, alliwing fir a bigger max unit discount...  as it is there are some who like them, but I'd lean towards skeletons or chainrasps myself, based on model preference.

After that foundation, the next thing I'd grab would be another necrimancer or two (maybe buy the emoire wizard box to use as extra necros for midel variety), maybe a harder hitting hammer unit (grimghasts, great weapon grave guard, halberd morghasts, or the like), then look to a larger centerpiece like a terrorgheist, vamp lord on zombie dragon, or mortis engine (not the best death behemoth, but very fluffy for sacrament).  After that, a second big block of your main horde, and finally arkhan as a capstone.  I'd save arkhan until you already have a large army to go with him as, while he's cool in a narrative sense, and not a terrible unit, he is super fragile for the points, and if you firld him he must be the general in a sacrament army, which isn't ideal.

Alternatuvely to most of that, if you lije skeletons you could build around the Deathmarch battalion.  it's kind of pricey fir what it does, but works well with the extra movement command ability that sacrament has.  For thus sort of army, you'll want to start by deciding whether you want to focus on infantry or cavalry, as that determines whether you'll want the regular wight king model or a mounted one - which you'll probably have to convert (try sticking a grave guard champion's head on the plastic mounted empire general, and just painting the horse fhistly or zombyish).  After that, get a necromancer, the minimum units for deathmarch (3x10 skeletons, 10 grave guard, 5 black knights), then push your main offensive unit to a larger size (either 30 grave guard or 20 bkack knights), push one of your skeleton units up to maximum size, then start thinking about larger centerpieces, more necromancers, more max horde units, maybe some dire wolves, maybe arkhan as before.

Some example 1000 point lists:
 

First up, here's what I would default recommend for a starting sacrament player.  Several casters, fluffy mortis engine, most of the way towards the sacrament formation if you want to run it later (it isn't great for its points, but it's cool in narrative games).  Choice of ghosts or skittles as horde.

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Trait: Peerless Commander 
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Necromancer (130)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
Necromancer (130)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Fading Vigour
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
either:

.....40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
or:

.....40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
Mortis Engine (180)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 87

 

next a variant on the previous list with a terrorgheist instead of the mortis & a necro.  Slightly less thamatic for sacrament, but a bit stronger imo.  Alternatively, you could trade the winged vamp lord and terrorgheist for a vamp lord on zombie dragon, which would then be my standard 1k grand host list.

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Trait: Peerless Commander 
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Necromancer (130)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
either:
.....40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
or:

.....40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
Terrorgheist (300)

Total: 990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 84

 

Next, a list with zombies, which again should be the default horde choice for sacrament if their rules & models weren't a bit meh.  Still, gives you an excuse to fit a corpse cart in, and between the cart, engine, and faction bonus your casting will be very strong, even with only two wizards in thus list.

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Flying Horror
- Trait: Peerless Commander 
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb
Necromancer (130)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
60 x Zombies (320)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
5 x Dire Wolves (70)
1 x Corpse Cart (80)
- Unholy Lodestone
Mortis Engine (180)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 108

 

Finally, here's a list building toward a cav heavy Deathmarch battalion.  Can't really fit it  all at 1000 points, but should be a playable start that gets you most of the way there.

Allegiance: Legion of Sacrament
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Wight King with Baleful Tomb Blade (120)
- General
- Mount: Steed
- Trait: Peerless Commander 
- Artefact: Shroud of Darkness 
Necromancer (130)
- Lore of the Deathmages: Overwhelming Dread
40 x Skeleton Warriors (280)
- Ancient Spears
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blades
10 x Black Knights (240)

Total: 980 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 90
 

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I don't personally recommend Arkhan for Sacrament lists.  Certainly not at 1000 points, because in a Legion of Sacrament army he has to be your general if you take him.  Sacrament has come decent command abilities, and you can't take one of them if Arkhan is your general.  Also, Arkhan's very fragile for his points cost, especially with some actually decent shooting making its way around the Age of Sigmar tables again.  This is problematic enough for a 300+ point model in a thousand point list to begin with, but it's way more of a problem when he has to be your general, especially in the Legions of Nagash where the Endless Legions command ability is so important to how the army functions.  So for Sacrament armies, I much prefer either a dragon lord (much tougher, especially with shroud of darkness or ethereal amulet) or a winged or mounted vampire lord (equivalently tough to arkhan with a shroud while being much cheaper and much easier to hide behind los blocking terrain while advancing) or just a plain old necromancer (as tough or tougher than arkhan while wearing a shroud and within range of summonable units,  again being much cheaper, again easier to hide behind terrain - though their lower movement speed means they can't bounce from hiding spot to hiding spot as easily as a vampire).

If you play Arkhan's Legion then you will *eventually* want to pick up Arkhan as a sort of capstone for your list, but I'd mostly only play him in larger, more narratively driven games, not so much regular bring & battle pick up games.  I'd treat him more as a fun event pies rather than a regular part of your army.  Now, I do sometimes field Arkhan in more regular games myself, but I run Grand Host of Nagash, where Arkhan doesn't need to be the general.  You can take him as a strong caster / minor monster while still having a generic general with a real command ability and a defensive artifact.  The ability to run Arkhan, Mannfred, or Neferata while still having a generic general is a big part of why I run Grand Host in the first place, for the record I think that, competitively, Sacrament is stronger in general.  LoN armies are very caster dependent, but our wizards really aren't all that efficient compared to other recent books.  The caster bonus from Sacrament goes a long way towards making up the difference.

Night's also pretty decent - the outflanking gimmick is both pretty good and really changes up how the army feels and plays, letting you pull some almost Nighthauntish tricks.

Edited by Sception
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So many funky things to field...

might even field a big block of black knights who suicide charge into the fray:

vamp, 2x necro; 2x5 wolves and 15 black knights and a vortex+cp...

totally not competitive, but supercharge the knights, into something and then resummon from gravesite 🥳

Also I really like the coven throne as a general, very nice buffs and utility, also fast and kinda sturdy.

real life troubles, I would suggest start collecting boxes for the mortis engine, Arkhan and some skellis. Also spirit hosts (3-6models) can be quite tough.

SC: Malignants has a Black Knight sprue, the engine-throne-palanquin sprue and some ghosts.

SC: Skeleton Horde with the three mortarch kit, knights and 20 skellis

so add a skelli box, a bunch of wolves (dire or fenrisian) a box of mages/necromancers and you’re set.

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from two SC boxes or knight are not useful( and arkhan on low points) or ghosts( 
for new player both seems overloaded with not usefull( on 1000) models

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I don't recommend any of the start collecting boxes for a new legions player.  Too much big stuff, not enough horde, not the right units for any legion.

The 'blades of the blood queen' box was a good way to start a grand host army specifically, but i don't think that box is available anymore.

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35 minutes ago, simakover said:

so that you recommend? 

eBay...

 

Else it‘s just a classic shopping spree. The wolves and the mortis engine probably still come on square bases, because FU death players. I personally still think the SC-boxes are ok, because of the variety and the start playing asap approach. But 40 skellis and a necromancer are just single purchase, my FEC Army was easier in that regard.

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As mentioned previously, my recommended start is separate purchases of:

1) vampire lord, specifically one of these two:

Vampire Lord

Vampire Lord on Nightmare Steed

since flying or steed are the better than plain infantry for the extra maneuverability.  If you prefer winged, but like one of the infantry models more than the winged guy, look into purchasing 40k tyranid gargoyle or dark eldar scourge bat wings off the secondary market (I use hoardobits.com in the us, if you live elsewhere you might have other options, if not try ebay).

Alternatively, if you purchase & assemble a Mortis Engine as your big centerpiece unit (see item 5 below), you'll have leftover coven throne bits, including reclining vampire ladies.  Sticking one of their upper torsos on the legs of a dark eldar scourge & adding scourge bat wings can make for a cool winged vampire lord model.

Alternatively alternatively, if you want to take a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon as your big centerpiece unit, you can skip this initial  vamp lord entirely, though long term you'll probably still want one so it wouldn't be a waste.

 

2. One or more necromancers.  The regular necromancer model is great.  With a Legion of Sacrament army you probably want to be able to field at least two.  You can get multiples of the regular model, but if you want two that look different from each other you might instead look to secondary market bits sellers for the Mortis Engine or Corpse Cart drivers, which can be converted into separate necromancers on foot pretty easily.  Alternatively you could try looking for the Empire Battle Wizards.  They used to come in a box of two with a bunch of different bits and options, several of which would make for great necromancers.  Later they were repackaged in a "collegiate arcane" box of four.  Now... now I can't find them on GW's store page at all, so you might be stuck looking for secondary sellers anyway.  Or they might just be getting repackaged for the upcoming free peoples / cities of sigmar / whatever it's called battle tome coming out in the next month or two.  Regardless, these are the models I'm talking about:

Image result for empire battle wizardsImage result for empire battle wizards

Again, the boxes come with bunches of options, you can definitely make multiple necromantic looking guys.  It's honestly a great source of conversion bits regardless.

 

3. Pick a Horde type, and get a max sized unit of them.  The options here are skeleton warriors (4 boxes), chainrasps (4 boxes) or zombies (3 boxes).  They differ in function - skeletons are the more offensive, chainrasps the fastest and toughest option, and zombies the weakest but most numerous, and the synergize well with corspe carts which also can buff your wizards with their lodestone bell.  While their functionality differs, their overall effectiveness is close enough that you should feel free to choose your horde type based on aesthetic preferences.

If you want the ghostly chainrasps, you might be able to get them cheaper in sets of 20 from the soul wars box on the secondary market.

Regardless, this horde unit will be the most expensive chunk of your initial army purchase, and the part that takes the longest to assemble & paint, so it's reasonable to break the work into multiple chunks.  Grab one to two boxes of your horde, move on to the next thing, and come back for the rest after maybe.  There's really no sugar coating this, though.  Legions of Nagash is a horde army, and that means a lot of models, and that means a lot of money and time.  If you want something else, try a monster heavy Flesh Eaters list or waiting for the seemingly more elite Bonereapers.

 

3 b - if you picked zombies as your horde, you'll also want to buy a corpse cart to go with them.  It's not too hard to magnetize so you can swap out the bell or the balefire, but if you don't want to bother with that just build it with the bell.

 

4. Pick up 2x5 dire wolves.  Dire Wolves saw a points increase recently, but they're still a great option for filling battle line requirements, grabbing unoccupied objectives, harrassing small enemy units, screening your faster moving units and heroes from charges, etc.  Some people even take them in big units, buff them up, and use them as a primary horde unit.  I'm not much for that, but point is you want at least 10 and may want more.  The official models conveniently come in a box of 10 for an affordable price:

Image result for dire wolves age of sigmar box

But a lot of players don't like how they look, and their connection to their bases is both obnoxiously large and surprisingly fragile, so you might want to consider alternative models.  Fenrisian Wolves are a decent alternative:

Image result for fenrisian wolves box

But they will be more than twice as expensive, as the box costs more, only comes with 5 models instead of 10, and you'd have to buy the correct 60mm oval bases separately, since the box comes with 40mm rounds, which is what the 40k unit uses.

 

5.  Finally get yourself one big cool centerpiece model.  Mortis Engine is the fluffiest for Sacrament, but a Terrorgheist or a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon might be more effective.  Each of these kits is large and troublesome to assemble and paint.  You'll want to work in smaller assemblages and take your time.  If you're new to the hobby entirely, and not just new to Death in particular, then you definitely want to save this one until after you've finished assembling and painting the previous items in order to get some hobby experience under your belt.

 

There is no good starter box combining these things into a more affordable pile, so you're kind of stuck just getting this stuff separately, which is expensive and hasslesome, but the army you end up with should look good and be reasonably playable.  Not top tier - again the Legions really aren't top tier right now, but functional and give you a proper feel for what the army is about.  From there I'd recommend picking up some thematically appropriate terrain to go with your army - the Sigmarite Mausoleum is cool - before expanding into higher points.  When you are ready to expand, a second unit of your primary horde is probably the next thing to pick up, followed by something more elite.  Maybe a dragon or terrorgheist if you didn't grab one already, maybe some Morghasts with halberds.  But that's way down the line, no sense worrying about it now.

Edited by Sception
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Sception, if I may borrow a moment of your time....

 

I currently have thirty Grimghasts,  20 skels, a couple of morghasts and Big Nag himself. I know I want more skells and possibly GG and a couple more Morgs. I’m also thinking Arkham and one, or two? necros to go with it. 

With the skells I’m leaning towards the sword n board kit out. Any thoughts on them weapon wise?

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small skeleton units should always be sword & board.  Max size blobs will do more damage with spears... in theory.  In practice your big horde units are often strung out to stay in range of buffs or to bubble wrap your heroes or whatever in which case they can't pile up to take advantage of the increased reach anyway.  So if you prefer sword & board loadout on skittles that'll be fine.

Otherwise you're off to a solid start.  I would still recomend a vamp lord, necromancer, & some dire wolves before messing with more elite units or monstrous heroes.

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Cheers bro. I do have a necro. I’m looking to get the SC Hordes box for Arkhan too and definitely want a selection of vamps due to awesome models!

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On 9/6/2019 at 4:08 PM, Sception said:

4. Pick up 2x5 dire wolves.  Dire Wolves saw a points increase recently, but they're still a great option for filling battle line requirements, grabbing unoccupied objectives, harrassing small enemy units, screening your faster moving units and heroes from charges, etc.  Some people even take them in big units, buff them up, and use them as a primary horde unit.  I'm not much for that, but point is you want at least 10 and may want more.  The official models conveniently come in a box of 10 for an affordable price:

[picture]

But a lot of players don't like how they look, and their connection to their bases is both obnoxiously large and surprisingly fragile, so you might want to consider alternative models.  Fenrisian Wolves are a decent alternative:

😇👍 ...my own interpretation of Fenrisian Wolves as Dire Wolves battle lines in a Legion of Grief army:

 

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