Skaven battleline

[Tittliewinks22]

Do not have the book available for a bit. Looking at the skaven on Warhammer community warscroll builder it says a "Masterclan or (Clan) general and all units are (Clan)." for unique battleline options.

It is impossible for an army with Masterclan general to have all units as a specific clan because the Masterclan unit does not have that keyword?

[sorokyl]

41 minutes ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

Do not have the book available for a bit. Looking at the skaven on Warhammer community warscroll builder it says a "Masterclan or (Clan) general and all units are (Clan)." for unique battleline options.

It is impossible for an army with Masterclan general to have all units as a specific clan because the Masterclan unit does not have that keyword?

I mean the answer is in the sentence.  Your general can be masterclan. The rules do not contradict themselves in a single sentence. Masterclan general is the only exception to "all units are (Clan)". 
 

[Tittliewinks22]

40 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

I mean the answer is in the sentence.  Your general can be masterclan. The rules do not contradict themselves in a single sentence. Masterclan general is the only exception to "all units are (Clan)". 
 

So it can be taken as two ways.

Masterclan general

Or 

(Clan) general + all (Clan) Units.

 

 

Vs.

Masterclan general + all (Clan) units.

Or

(Clan) general + all (clan) units.

[sorokyl]

13 minutes ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

So it can be taken as two ways.

Masterclan general

Or 

(Clan) general + all (Clan) Units.

     Vs.

Masterclan general + all (Clan) units.

Or

(Clan) general + all (clan) units.

1

the official rules (pitched battle profiles) have a comma in there, which makes it clear

"Battleline in Skaventide army if general is MASTERCLAN or CLANS ESHIN, and all other units are CLANS ESHIN"

Warscroll builder often has bugs and should never be considered official. it's just a useful tool. 

[Tittliewinks22]

4 minutes ago, sorokyl said:

the official rules (pitched battle profiles) have a comma in there, which makes it clear

"Battleline in Skaventide army if general is MASTERCLAN or CLANS ESHIN, and all other units are CLANS ESHIN"

Warscroll builder often has bugs and should never be considered official. it's just a useful tool. 

Thanks! The comma makes it more legible

[Tittliewinks22]

We'll still needs an FAQ, because Masterclan is not got (clan) keyword so you cannot fullfill both requirements for specific battleline RAW. 

 

I'm pretty sure you are correct RAI though.

[Tittliewinks22]

Would also mean this way, if you wanted stormfiend battleline. There is no way to take any other battleline in the army.

The more my friends and I think about this the more we think. Masterclan allows all battleline regardless.

[Overread]

From the book

"Battleline in Skaventide army if general is Masterclan or Clans Pestilens and all other units are Clans Pestilens"

The 'and' separates the two clauses and the other clan battleline options are the same, saving swapping pestilens above for skyre, etc.... As it stands as written in the book the general maybe either masterclan or "named clan" and all other units must be the same named clan. There is thus no option to, for example, take clan rats in a clan skyre army and have stormfiends count as battleline. 

 

The only area where people are potentially questioning it though is in the term of "allies". Now allies can't be battleline, but it does let you take allied units; esp for a faction like Skaven Pestilens that were used to taking Nurgle allies. As it stands you can't take any allies either as they would count as "other units". That's really the only area that I think deserves a clarification in the FAQ.

[XReN]

It is ruled pretty clear, dunno where's the problem:
MASTERCLAN OR CLAN General
Everything else is CLAN
PESTILENCE for Monks and Censer Bearers
SKRYRE for Fiends and Acolytes
MOULDER for Giant Rats and Rat Ogors
ESHIN for Gutter and Night Runners

With conditional battleline you ABSOLUTELY, POSSITIVELY CANNOT TAKE ANY UNIT FROM OTHER CLAN, with the exception of MASTERCLAN General

And there is also no need to FAQ allies, ruling for conditional BL refers to Skaventide Army
Skaventide is Allegiance
As we know, allies don't count towards determening Allegiance

[sorokyl]

 

8 hours ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

Would also mean this way, if you wanted stormfiend battleline. There is no way to take any other battleline in the army.

The more my friends and I think about this the more we think. Masterclan allows all battleline regardless.

Well, you can also use Acolytes as battleline if 100% Skryre, but yes that's the intent. You can never use both conditional battleline and clanrats/stormvermin as battleline in the same list. It's just not possible. The fact that your general can be masterclan does not impact the rest of your list or battleline choices at all. the flexibility only applies to the general.

[Russrmc]

9 hours ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

Would also mean this way, if you wanted stormfiend battleline. There is no way to take any other battleline in the army.

The more my friends and I think about this the more we think. Masterclan allows all battleline regardless.

As far as I can tell, you and your group  are unusual to be having this issue of seeking clarification, although I can appreciate that this is a totally different way to do things compared to any other army, so some confusion is understandable...

It's masterclan as general plus clan units or clan general plus clan units to get clan battle line. Both army building apps have been updated to support this and the rules in the book are pretty clear on this.

And I say this bearing in mind that they updated the app after introducing skaven tide to allow for pestilens and Nurgle allies to function correctly, so the system for list validation has been checked for errors and adjusted, and still works as expected based on the above. So I'd suggest you can conclude that the liklihood that it's not intended to work this way is extremely low. 

[CJPT]

If you want Stormfiend battleline, then your entire army needs to be Skryre with the possible exception of a Masterclan general. You also get Acolytes as battleline in that scenario, but you lose access to clanrats and stormvermin as battleline - exactly the same as a pure Skryre army.

There's nothing in the wording that suggests that Masterclan generals give you access to all battleline options, as far as I can see!

[Mutter]

12 hours ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

There is no way to take any other battleline in the army.

Acolytes?

[Overread]

Masterclan is a clan keyword, its right there on every Masterclan unit Warscroll. In addition they have their own equipment pools to draw from in the Battletome. The only reason there is now "allegiance abilities" is because Masterclan has no troops at all to form a legal army. They only have access to heroes, but it is a clan within the system and it is a specific key word.

 

I think the rules will make more sense to you once you've got a Battletome in hand and can read through it clearly rather than putting it together from apps, hearsay and suchlike.

[Russrmc]

18 hours ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

Would also mean this way, if you wanted stormfiend battleline. There is no way to take any other battleline in the army.

The more my friends and I think about this the more we think. Masterclan allows all battleline regardless.

This is super clear. Both official army building tools have been designed to make it work, and the Azyr app has also had a bugfix on an unrelated army composition issue for skaven, so we know its been actively looked at. 

Masterclan can be a general in an otherwise all one clan keyword army to get clan battle line. Thats it. Its really quite simple, it's just different to how it usually is for other armies, but it's not contentious!