AoS 2 - Skaventide Discussion

[Skreech Verminking]

On 12/12/2022 at 11:09 PM, greg19190 said:

I have been thinking about using them with out dieying and the way I came up with is having a block of 60 clan rats with 3 of the doomflairs in it a clawlord near by with the warpstone charm get the clan rats in charge with clawlord but leave lines were the doomflayrs go 3.9 away thecnacly they charged so clanrats go first then enomy unit hits back then the doomflayrs pile in one at a time with - 3 Rend 

It’s a good idea, just remember you still have that 50% chance of dying if you overcharge it’s ability.

which is why I would have recommended deathfrenzy on him

[El_Dicko]

Hi hi fellow rat enthusiasts! Here’s a list I’m thinking about for a month long casual “tournament” in February.

++ **Contest of Generals** 2,000 (Chaos - Skaven) [1,990pts] ++

+ Core Battalion +

Core Battalion: Grand Battery

Core Battalion: Warlord: Extra Enhancement: Artefacts of Power

+ Leader +

Clawlord [110pts]: Warlord - 2-4 Sub-Commanders

Master Moulder [90pts]: General, Hordemaster, Rabid Crown, Things Catcher, Warlord - 1-2 Commanders

Master Moulder [90pts]: Lash of Fangs, Warlord - 2-4 Sub-Commanders, Warpstone-tipped Lash

Warlock Engineer [105pts]: Grand Battery - 1 Sub-commander, More-more-more Warp Power!

+ Behemoth +

Hell Pit Abomination [245pts]

+ Battleline +

Clanrats [200pts]: 40 Clanrats, Musician, Reinforced, Rusty Spears, Standard Bearers

Clanrats [100pts]: 20 Clanrats, Musician, Rusty Blades, Standard Bearers, Warlord - 1-2 Troops

Giant Rats [120pts]: 12 Giant Rats, Reinforced

Rat Ogors [280pts]: 4 Rat Ogors, Reinforced, 2x Warpfire Gun

Rat Ogors [140pts]: 2 Rat Ogors, Warpfire Gun

Stormvermin [270pts]: 20 Stormvermin, Musician, Reinforced, Standard Bearers

+ Artillery +

Warplock Jezzails [120pts]: 3 Warplock Jezzails, Grand Battery - 2-3 Artillery

Warplock Jezzails [120pts]: 3 Warplock Jezzails, Grand Battery - 2-3 Artillery

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: Allegiance: Skaven

+ Game Options +

Battle Tactics: Plots, Schemes and Misdirections

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

++ Total: [1,990pts] ++

Thoughts?

[Skreech Verminking]

8 minutes ago, El_Dicko said:

Hi hi fellow rat enthusiasts! Here’s a list I’m thinking about for a month long casual “tournament” in February.

++ **Contest of Generals** 2,000 (Chaos - Skaven) [1,990pts] ++

+ Core Battalion +

Core Battalion: Grand Battery

Core Battalion: Warlord: Extra Enhancement: Artefacts of Power

+ Leader +

Clawlord [110pts]: Warlord - 2-4 Sub-Commanders

Master Moulder [90pts]: General, Hordemaster, Rabid Crown, Things Catcher, Warlord - 1-2 Commanders

Master Moulder [90pts]: Lash of Fangs, Warlord - 2-4 Sub-Commanders, Warpstone-tipped Lash

Warlock Engineer [105pts]: Grand Battery - 1 Sub-commander, More-more-more Warp Power!

+ Behemoth +

Hell Pit Abomination [245pts]

+ Battleline +

Clanrats [200pts]: 40 Clanrats, Musician, Reinforced, Rusty Spears, Standard Bearers

Clanrats [100pts]: 20 Clanrats, Musician, Rusty Blades, Standard Bearers, Warlord - 1-2 Troops

Giant Rats [120pts]: 12 Giant Rats, Reinforced

Rat Ogors [280pts]: 4 Rat Ogors, Reinforced, 2x Warpfire Gun

Rat Ogors [140pts]: 2 Rat Ogors, Warpfire Gun

Stormvermin [270pts]: 20 Stormvermin, Musician, Reinforced, Standard Bearers

+ Artillery +

Warplock Jezzails [120pts]: 3 Warplock Jezzails, Grand Battery - 2-3 Artillery

Warplock Jezzails [120pts]: 3 Warplock Jezzails, Grand Battery - 2-3 Artillery

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: Allegiance: Skaven

+ Game Options +

Battle Tactics: Plots, Schemes and Misdirections

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

++ Total: [1,990pts] ++

Thoughts?

For a casual list thus will do pretty much fine.

in theory you could argue to take 2 units of 20 clanrats instead of one big brick of 40, but at least I finally see somebody interested in playing some form of a hordy skaven unit 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@El_Dicko Way to lean into the hordes. if you wanted you could drop one reinforcement point of stormvermin to splice in some warp-grinders for mobility or switch it for reinforcing the other Rat ogre squad. That way you could have some mid- game threats or have more proper hammer units. You have enough other interesting things for an opponent to target that you foot heroes would be wasted effort. 

Frankly, during this season, just go all GV's if you can with your chosen Grand Strat. If you stick with practicing in this list you'll be well situated for the next season too when bounty hunters rotate out. 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@greg19190 I really want your doomflayer idea to work. I'm having trouble visualizing you delivery package for them. Relying on your opponent's pile-in is a tough sell, but I'm an eager customer. Help me see the light.

 

[Skreech Verminking]

23 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@greg19190 I really want your doomflayer idea to work. I'm having trouble visualizing you delivery package for them. Relying on your opponent's pile-in is a tough sell, but I'm an eager customer. Help me see the light.

 

I can not talk for @greg19190, but this is how I would probably play them:

take 9 doom flayers into your list.

6pf the are hidden the other 3 are out and hidden behind walls instead of inside units.

cast deathfrenzy on one of the models, and hope you get a high enough role to either cast dreaded deathfrenzy on the other doomflayers or if you are lucky on all three again.

And now send them to combat.

you will probably just be able to foght with one of them, which will be with the doomflayer that has just one deathfrenzy buff on him.

he has a 50% chance of dying immediately after attacking, allowing you to attack one more time he will very likely pick a unit that is next to the other two not yet activated doom flayers, although he might not want to.

if he attacks and kills them you can attack with one of your doomflayers twice and once with the other one.

if he chooses to not make an pile in move and tries with every fiber in his body to not attack your doom flayers, I wouldn’t worry too much, you still have a 50 percent chance of dying and still attacking twice with both doom flayers 

[greg19190]

52 minutes ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@greg19190 I really want your doomflayer idea to work. I'm having trouble visualizing you delivery package for them. Relying on your opponent's pile-in is a tough sell, but I'm an eager customer. Help me see the light.

 

I will be playing a mock practice, game game later I will get photo evidence of instruction 😁 

[El_Dicko]

1 hour ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@El_Dicko Way to lean into the hordes. if you wanted you could drop one reinforcement point of stormvermin to splice in some warp-grinders for mobility or switch it for reinforcing the other Rat ogre squad. That way you could have some mid- game threats or have more proper hammer units. You have enough other interesting things for an opponent to target that you foot heroes would be wasted effort. 

Frankly, during this season, just go all GV's if you can with your chosen Grand Strat. If you stick with practicing in this list you'll be well situated for the next season too when bounty hunters rotate out. 

I haven’t played AoS since before this Generals Handbook came out(and never with skaven), so my initial thought was having lots of battle line for hold the line. Trying to get my head around the new rules now, just read the review of GH over on goonhammer but haven’t picked it up yet. Squeezing in more rat ogors sounds good! But I don’t have the models, although the ones I do have and the second 10 storm vermin still need to be built and painted anyway. Thanks for the thoughts y’all!

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@El_Dicko If its been that long since you've played, don't worry about the season rules. Whats a shame and a criticism I have is that the current scenarios are mostly tied to the Galletian Veterans rule. Theres simply no generic battle pack for people to just pick up a game. 

if you can find an opponent who wouldn't mind skipping out on this season's battalions at the very least, you'll have a much more enjoyable experience. In fact, skip battle tactics too if you can if you feel rusty. 

[greg19190]

ok excuse some bad photos 

Spoiler

charge in as expected but leave a box so your doomflayers can fit in 3.5 away. clawlord top left with warpstone charm, Skryre Acolytes are enemy on 32mm bases but can represent most nasty hitty enemy and exactly the same if were a 25mm base or something bigger.

Spoiler

then add doomflayers (only have 1 at the moment) and pile in and attack clanrats...

Spoiler

enemy hits back and kills ****** loads of clanrats and clawlord can passes off on 3+ if heroic action is used  

Spoiler

then you can pile in your doomflayres 1 at a time laughing knowing that you are the only thing that can kill your doomflayers that turn... you can add more or less doomflayers just make the box bigger. -3 rend on the doomflayers and the clan rats also have -1 as well, all this for 605 points and an artifact thoughts? 

Edited December 16, 2022 by greg19190

[greg19190]

5 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@El_Dicko If its been that long since you've played, don't worry about the season rules. Whats a shame and a criticism I have is that the current scenarios are mostly tied to the Galletian Veterans rule. Theres simply no generic battle pack for people to just pick up a game. 

if you can find an opponent who wouldn't mind skipping out on this season's battalions at the very least, you'll have a much more enjoyable experience. In fact, skip battle tactics too if you can if you feel rusty. 

that and the season is nearly over so not really worth getting in to now.

 

6 hours ago, El_Dicko said:

I haven’t played AoS since before this Generals Handbook came out(and never with skaven), so my initial thought was having lots of battle line for hold the line. Trying to get my head around the new rules now, just read the review of GH over on goonhammer but haven’t picked it up yet. Squeezing in more rat ogors sounds good! But I don’t have the models, although the ones I do have and the second 10 storm vermin still need to be built and painted anyway. Thanks for the thoughts y’all!

 

[Lord Krungharr]

How do Doomflayers get rend -3?

[Skreech Verminking]

1 minute ago, Lord Krungharr said:

How do Doomflayers get rend -3?

The warpstome charm (artefact on the clalwordl) guves enemy units within 3” -1 to their save rolls

[Skreech Verminking]

7 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

The warpstome charm (artefact on the clalwordl) guves enemy units within 3” -1 to their save rolls

In theory you could even go further and add the purplemsun to your army.

which then basically gives your doom flayers a -4rend attack

[El_Dicko]

1 hour ago, greg19190 said:

that and the season is nearly over so not really worth getting in to now.

 

 

Well, the thing is I’m kinda stuck learning them since the liga/tourney rules state “

• Games are played under Games Workshop rules with the latest updates at 15.12.2022
• Matched Play - Pitched Battle Rules are in Effect, as per the General Handbook 2022
• Galletian special rules are in Effect
• Any publication from GW that were released before this date is accepted
• Latest FAQs are in effect”

[Skreech Verminking]

37 minutes ago, El_Dicko said:

Well, the thing is I’m kinda stuck learning them since the liga/tourney rules state “

• Games are played under Games Workshop rules with the latest updates at 15.12.2022
• Matched Play - Pitched Battle Rules are in Effect, as per the General Handbook 2022
• Galletian special rules are in Effect
• Any publication from GW that were released before this date is accepted
• Latest FAQs are in effect”

There are a few small thinks you won’t have to remember.

You can basically ignore the rules for galletian veteran, since as it is, we have a better rule for attacking from multiple ranks.

to keep in mind though is that units in the bounty hunter detachment will deal more damage against basically all of your battleline (- rat ogors in your list).

the faq for the skaven was barely noticeable.

and unless you’re fielding 3 Masterclan heroes not necessary to read.

 

[greg19190]

just had the best game with skaven this year against my normal opponent with beastclaw raiders. a doomwheel lifted 2 ironblasters and a mornfang, and another one got rid of 3 mornfang 2+ mortals is really consistant. i used the 60 clan rats and 3 doomflayers trick and killed the frostlord on stonehorn with them. 2 stonehorns and the priest one with the dirty snowballs battered the clanrats lifting 39 of them in a combat round, then the clanrats stopped the frostlord from charging and from having a combat phase for 2 turns by bring back clanrats at the end of the battleshock phase and putting them in 3 of the frostlord, then when they take damage from monstrous actions removing them... such a good game, the additional -1 from the clawlord is realy good in general and having a 3+ pass it on makes him really survivable then picking one of the other command ability's to suit realy liking the new book  

Edited December 16, 2022 by greg19190

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

@greg19190 So I assume you are abusing the following:

Core Rules 12.1: "A unit is eligible to fight if it is within 3" of an enemy unit and it has not fought in that phase, or if it made a charge move in the same turn and it has not fought in that phase."

Doom-flayer Hidden Weapon Team Ability: "...A unit set up with this ability is treated as having charged in the same turn."

I had to think for a moment why you were able to fight at all by setting up outside of 3" of your front line. I like it. The real trick will be reliably getting the clanrats into position on the charge, in addition to the clawlord. Perhaps best suited to let clanrats take the charge on your opponents turn, then on your next turn, retreat, charge for efficient spacing?

[greg19190]

3 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

@greg19190 So I assume you are abusing the following:

Core Rules 12.1: "A unit is eligible to fight if it is within 3" of an enemy unit and it has not fought in that phase, or if it made a charge move in the same turn and it has not fought in that phase."

Doom-flayer Hidden Weapon Team Ability: "...A unit set up with this ability is treated as having charged in the same turn."

I had to think for a moment why you were able to fight at all by setting up outside of 3" of your front line. I like it. The real trick will be reliably getting the clanrats into position on the charge, in addition to the clawlord. Perhaps best suited to let clanrats take the charge on your opponents turn, then on your next turn, retreat, charge for efficient spacing?

To be honest that is how it worked out last night, could not get a good charge in to the target unit and then got beaten up but enough survived and then just retreated them out and charged in again and form 2 lines going back and one at the front like a box with 3sides so the doomflayer were with in 3 and having a single line of clanrats at the front stopping the in this case stonehorn from piling in on them, still worked with 21 clanrats. The clawlord was useful by stopping the stonehorn from piling away from the unit of clanrats

also he survived 2 rounds of combat with the frost lord only taking 2 damage some clanrats may have died in his place but they are self replacing... He also fluffed all his attacks each round even though he had 8.... The doomflayers worked first one blew up on a 7 did 3 damage (why do they blow up on a 7 what law reason is there?) secone one only got 4 attack did none and the last one got 10 and did 8 damage so was megga 

Edited December 17, 2022 by greg19190

[Lord Krungharr]

Just got my 1 doomflayer in the mail today along with my 3 ratling guns.  I don't have 60 clanrats, not really thinking I'll ever want them....but that's a great battle vs the Ogors you had!

I'll pelt them with globes, lightning, and 2 Doomwheels.

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

20 hours ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

Doom-flayer Hidden Weapon Team Ability: "...A unit set up with this ability is treated as having charged in the same turn."

I should note, I'm unsure about the discrepancy between "having charged" and "having made a charge move". Everyone's instincts would say they are the same, but I would have to dig into FAQ's to be really sure. 

[Riff_Raff_Rascal]

Has anyone else been trying out the Plagueclaw catapult and Horrorghast combo? I'm currently magnetizing my lightning cannons retro-actively to make a plagueclaw heavy list, just seems too fun. 

[Lord Krungharr]

1 hour ago, Riff_Raff_Rascal said:

I should note, I'm unsure about the discrepancy between "having charged" and "having made a charge move". Everyone's instincts would say they are the same, but I would have to dig into FAQ's to be really sure. 

Since a charge is a move, I couldn't think anything but having charged means having made a charge move.  

On an annoying note, the Doomwheel I got off eBay was partially assembled, and the geared wheel hubs were glued all wrong, so no way to assemble it successfully 😛  So no double Doomwheel list yet. 

But looks like one can fit 4 of them, plus 4 Lightning Cannons, 2x10 and 1x5 Acolytes, plus 2 Engineers and an Arch Warlock in 2k points.  4 drop army with 2 battle regiments.  Could be worth proxy-trying, but I so want to see the real deal on the table.  

[greg19190]

17 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Just got my 1 doomflayer in the mail today along with my 3 ratling guns.  I don't have 60 clanrats, not really thinking I'll ever want them....but that's a great battle vs the Ogors you had!

I'll pelt them with globes, lightning, and 2 Doomwheels.

Stuff to soak up there charges/stop them from charging is important to stop your damaging stuff from being killed off or giving them bad targets... That said maybe offence is the best defence so maybe just having more is better

[Lord Krungharr]

I've got a bag full of tiny rats from all the Plague Monk kits.  I think that'll make a Vermintide and maybe some rat swarms too.  Those could be screens of sorts.

But I took a deeper look at the goofy doomwheel I got, and looks like the pegs and holes still line up, just with those cross-piece brackets towards the backside.  I should be able to cobble together some bits to hold it together then.  Not sure I'll add the ginormous flags, but they certainly are dramatic looking!