Objective control

[Frozenbeast]

Hi, folks, quick question regarding objective control as per base rules (not the specific Battleplan ones). It say that you "count up the amount of model you have controlling the obj (within 6") and the amount of model your adversary has controlling the obj and whoever has the more models, controls the obj".  Although it also say "if you control an obj, you keep control of an obj up until your opponent is able to gain control of it".

Let's say I control an obj first as I have 10 models on one of them and my opponent has 0 (which happens in early phases of the game) and then on a subsequent turn my opponent manage to get a 5 model unit in combat with my models controlling the obj and kills 5 of them. So now we have 5 models each within 6" of the objective. What happen now? Whose is the obj? Is it still mine as it was before this combat (it was mine before the combat and my opponent did not fulfill the requirements in order to control it ergo I am still controlling it) or is it contested as we have "counted up the number of models" and we have the same amount of them controlling the obj?

I checked the FAQs but could not find the clarification so maybe its just me reading and interpreting it wrongly but to me it looks like the two things contradict themselves.

 

Cheers

[Isotop]

57 minutes ago, Frozenbeast said:

Hi, folks, quick question regarding objective control as per base rules (not the specific Battleplan ones). It say that you "count up the amount of model you have controlling the obj (within 6") and the amount of model your adversary has controlling the obj and whoever has the more models, controls the obj".  Although it also say "if you control an obj, you keep control of an obj up until your opponent is able to gain control of it".

Let's say I control an obj first as I have 10 models on one of them and my opponent has 0 (which happens in early phases of the game) and then on a subsequent turn my opponent manage to get a 5 model unit in combat with my models controlling the obj and kills 5 of them. So now we have 5 models each within 6" of the objective. What happen now? Whose is the obj? Is it still mine as it was before this combat (it was mine before the combat and my opponent did not fulfill the requirements in order to control it ergo I am still controlling it) or is it contested as we have "counted up the number of models" and we have the same amount of them controlling the obj?

I checked the FAQs but could not find the clarification so maybe its just me reading and interpreting it wrongly but to me it looks like the two things contradict themselves.

 

Cheers

You would still control it since your opponent failed to take control of the objective. As you mentioned, you keep controlling the objective until your opponent manages to take control himself. Likewise you can just leave an objective after you have taken control of it and keep scoring wihout any models within 6" of it (until you opponent grabs it).

 

[Frozenbeast]

4 hours ago, Isotop said:

You would still control it since your opponent failed to take control of the objective. As you mentioned, you keep controlling the objective until your opponent manages to take control himself. Likewise you can just leave an objective after you have taken control of it and keep scoring wihout any models within 6" of it (until you opponent grabs it).

 

So this is exaclty what I thought but the argument against it has been: "the rule states that at the end of the turn you and your opponent count up how many models to determine" and this was THE action that defines who has the objective regardless of the previous controller of it. 

[Isotop]

8 hours ago, Frozenbeast said:

So this is exaclty what I thought but the argument against it has been: "the rule states that at the end of the turn you and your opponent count up how many models to determine" and this was THE action that defines who has the objective regardless of the previous controller of it. 

The answer to your question lies in the detail of the wording. You stated "you and your opponent count up [...] to determine [...] who has the objective". When we look at the actual rules text we find the following wording:

"[...] you and your opponent must count up the number of models you have within 6" of the centre of each objective; you gain control of an objective where your count is higher than your opponent’s count."

(https://ageofsigmar.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2018/06/AoS_Rules-ENG.pdf, page 11)

This part tells you how you gain control of an objective. Note how it does not specify what happens when neither player has more models than his opponent within 6" of the objective. The argument you stated implies that in this case, whoever controlled the objective before, loses their control of the objective (correct me if I represent you wrong). However, at this point the rules tell us again how to handle the situation:

"Once you gain control of an objective, it remains under your control until the enemy is able to gain control of it."

(same source as above)

As you can see, there is only one way to lose control of an objective. Your opponent has to gain control of it themselves. We allready found out that in order for this to happen, they need to have the majority of models within 6" of the objective at the end of a turn. Since this condition is not met in the case of a tie (special case being zero models for both), you will keep control of the objective. 

I think the argument you mentioned only works if players would automatically lose control of objectives at the start of each new turn (in order to then regain the objectives at the end of the turn). I hope I could show that this understanding is not supported by the rules, though.

Am I right in my understanding that a gaming mate of yours is having this argument with you (since you seem to be sure it works they way I presented)? If this is the case, I hope you can convince them. Otherwise, feel free to report back so we can try to make the argument even more clear  

[AaronWilson]

You can walk away from a objective and still control it. 

[Isotop]

1 hour ago, AaronWIlson said:

You can walk away from a objective and still control it. 

No offense, but I think this does not really help him without any explanation or reference aiding it.

[Frozenbeast]

2 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

You can walk away from a objective and still control it. 

As said it does not really answer to my question, but thanks for the clarification?

[King Taloren]

You maintain control of the objectives until your opponent outnumbers you for the control of the objective. If you tie when you initially control it you still keep control 

[amysrevenge]

Walking away does answer the question, or at least it works because of the same answer - an objective with no models nearby is a 0-0 tie for control.  An objective with 5 models from each player nearby is a 5-5 tie for control.  Exactly the same result - control is unchanged.  Vacant if it was vacant before, or maintained control if it was controlled before.