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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Dispossessed Discussion

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1 hour ago, smucreo said:

Do you guys think this is a valid route to take? 

If you want to play the magic game no. Too many points goes filling the requirement.

The Stormcast spell changed my idea on spells, I'm going to try this:

120 Warden King

100 Runelord

100 Runelord

140 Knight incantor (or Exorcist, we need the warscroll)

160 Warriors x20

200 Longbeards x20

420 Hammerers x30

360 Irondrakes x20

280 Ironbreakers x20

100 Everblaze comet

20 Quicksilver swords OR Soulsnare shackless

--2000

 

130 duardin wounds on the table, a good punch in hammerers-irondrakes-longbeards-comet and some premium screen units!

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Don't get me wrong, the spell is great and I'm sure this list is resilient and deals good damage, but how will you get across the board? I'd rather add a couple of fast moving units there to make sure you can at least try to play the objective game.

I feel that the magic game is pretty safe for us considering we have 2 unbinds at +2 with just 2 runelords and runic icons on most units, so we should focus on either grabbing fast units when we can to get across the board, or trying to add mechanics like the tempests eye allegiance or the cronomantic cogs to boost our speed.

That's why if you go for the allied stormcast wizard route you are better off grabbing cogs as the endless spell of choice, and not others even though they can certainly be nasty. 

Apologies if it sounds a bit rambly, I'm browsing on my phone right now.

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That's a good point, I always tend to lose the Objective game.  Maybe I have a wrong prospective on that side of the game!

I do not like cogs, tho. Assuming we begin at 12" from the half-board with cogs we march to 6" from the half (without running, to shieldwall); assuming obstacles we're out of the objective, still.

Maybe i should go back to the Steam Tank or Fulminators 🤔

 

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3 hours ago, smucreo said:

Do you guys think this is a valid route to take? I can't really make it work in my head with all the things I have to take and all the things I want to take...

The closest thing I have right now is:

Battalion 160

Warden King 120

Runelord 100

Unforged 100 

2x 10 Longbeards 200

2x 20 Longbeards 400

2x 10 Ironbreakers 280

1x20 Irondrakes 360

Extras:

2 Gyros 160

1 Runelord 100

This puts me at 1980, but gives me rerolls to hit and the rest of the dispossessed things plus the Firestorm allegiance abilities for Tempest's Eye, which is nice for mobility across the board. Of course this list is unrefined but this is the closest I've come to something viable with the restrictions of the battalion.

Tempest's Eye allegiance on a Dispossessed based force feels wasted without at least on block of 30 Quarrellers to take advantage of being able to shoot if you're given the first turn with. If you're willing to swap the Gyrocopters out for something else fast moving (Aetherwings?) I'd give the Living City a look to get the Irondrakes in place (albeit stood next to a board edge) on turn 1.

The War Throng's auto pass battleshock on a 1-3 rule in a list using Order (and by extension Free City) allegiance abilities is than the Dispossessed battle trait that does the same thing, as you'll get to reroll battleshock in an Order War Throng.

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My thoughts when choosing the parameters of the list were:

I chose Tempest's Eye because I wanted to use Ironweld as well as Dispossessed at first. Also, since it gives +2 to move if grounded/+4 if flying and +1 to saves I thought it could work pretty well considering that I could run my dorfs up the board and have them be at 3+ save to compensate for the loss of rerolls for that round (instead of moving 4 or 6 with the normal move + possible cogs I can move 10, losing only a little on saves thanks to the +1). The battalion, although pretty similar in benefits to what generic Order allegiance gives, is still significantly better. Ignoring half of the battleshock tests is great, especially when you also reroll them, although I admit it may be a bit overkill. Reroll to hit always on what basically amounts to almost the whole army is imo pretty justifiable, especially now that the battalion also gives command points.

It was my original idea to include 30 quarrelers as well, but the points just didn't line up and what came out was this. I'm sure I could cut the number of longbeards, but for now this was what I came with.

I really like the Ironweld part, so I plan to at least keep that for now, and although Living City sounds great the bonuses given by Tempests eye sound equally as appealing for me right now if I manage to sneak in a couple of gyros in the list like I did here, since they will be moving at 16" turn one and with a +1 in save.

But I appreciate your thoughts! I'll work on trying something else to see how it fits with this list, the only part I don't like about the battalion tbh is how you have to include the unforged.

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3 minutes ago, smucreo said:

But I appreciate your thoughts! I'll work on trying something else to see how it fits with this list, the only part I don't like about the battalion tbh is how you have to include the unforged.

The Unforged is something most people would never normally run outside the battalion, but he's not terrible for the points you pay once you've slapped a Relic Blade on him, and is a handy extra hero in the battleplans you need them to take objectives with.

I can't fault you for wanting to include Ironweld stuff instead of Sylvaneth, rock on!

Had you considered the Chronomantic Cogs (in fast forward mode) in a Tempest's Eye list to get an extra 4" on each unit in the first turn? :) 

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With what you said I changed the list a bit, what do you think of the following?

For the second list I tried to include cogs without losing much, and for that I included a Loremaster which I believe is the cheapest mage available. The second list on a good day would have my dwarfs running at 12" and the gyros moving 18 on the first turn.

image.png.c82a9b3e239fe037313a89fb543bdd65.png

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@smucreo

I'm liking the second list a lot. It's a shame you can't fit a second Runelord in to spread the -1 Rend love around (it's dynamite on an Unforged with a Relic Blade).

With such a small amount of drops due to the batallion you'll also be picking priority against most armies, allowing you to shoot first with the Irondrakes too.

If you're looking at sticking to fluffy (Tempest's Eye sits in Ashqy) artefacts, had you looked at the Thermalrider Cloak for your Warden King, giving him a whopping 14" move with +2 charge on the first turn with successfully cast Cogs, and letting him beat up most small units and other infantry heroes when stacked with Legendary Fighter and the Runelord's -1 rend.

Also, not that it makes much difference (both are stinking elves who exist to make your dwarfs faster and then sit the rest of the battle out), but the Loremaster's gone up in points in the new GHB; the Archmage has however had his points go down to the Loremaster's old value. :) 

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Ohh okay that's good to know, I'd use Archmage then haha I actually like his unique spell more, and the fact that he can ride a horse to move 14" naturally (18 with the cogs and the allegiance 😱)

It's interesting that it is set in the Realm of Fire... I may have to paint their armor red and try to learn a glowing weapon technique to match them up to that! I'm not big on converting though, so I'd only recolor them haha Though I say this knowing full well this screws with my original plan to paint them blueish with snow bases, so I may have to think about it :D 

About the artifacts: I noticed that Relic Blade gives +1 damage, does this stack with the Unforged doing double damage to Chaos? I mean, does it do (1*2)+1=3 or does it do (1+1)*2=4? Either way, it's really not bad damage!

Where did you find the Thermalrider Cloak? Is it a realm specific artifact? Do we know if we can use them in matched play after all?

Edited by smucreo

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7 minutes ago, smucreo said:

It's interesting that it is set in the Realm of Fire... I may have to paint their armor red and try to learn a glowing weapon technique to match them up to that! I'm not big on converting though, so I'd only recolor them haha

Realm of Fire by way of Middenland if you're interested:

sFxsP01.jpg

(though I'm keeping my army's original Averland and red/bone Dwarf colour schemes and just giving them Tempest's Eye iconography and a few Tempest Lord Stormcast to lead them into battle, saying they're respectively an individual trading company and clan based inside Tempest's Eye with their own colour schemes. Nothing at all to do with the allegiances available to Tempest's Eye coincidentally being the ones my existing Order army was already made up of, right down to the tiny amount of Swifthawk Agents, no siree... 🙄😉)

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Oh so they are blue? Nice! Just how I wanted to paint them then! haha thanks for all the resources provided!

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I think you forgot the battalion cost in your list! The updated one is 170 🤣

By the way you guys are convincing me on the Unforged, he does look better now!

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Nooo really? but but... my perfect 2k points... and why an odd number?? damn 😅 I'll have to think about it when I get back home.

EDIT:  Maybe the shackles could prove useful? you boost yourself with the allegiance and you stop (kinda the enemy with shackles... and you'd still have 30 points left for maybe an extra endless spell; either that or you could go for the geminids maybe).

Edited by smucreo

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6 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said:

I think you forgot the battalion cost in your list! The updated one is 170 🤣

By the way you guys are convincing me on the Unforged, he does look better now!

The Unforged has always been goooood when you give him a Relic Blade, especially when he does 24 damage to a unit of Chosen belonging to a particularly hysterical Slaanesh player.

He's even better now in a lot of lists because you can realistically give him Legendary Fighter for an extra 2/4 damage attack, knowing that he'll die early, allowing you to give a command trait to your "real" general.

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There's a neat little combo with the Unforged and the new artefacts :P

He can add +1 to wound if the target has more then 1 wound and he can stack it with the +1 to wound from Warden King. Longbeards can let him reroll 1s to wound. So +2 to wound, rerolling 1s.

Now, in the new artefacts table from Ghur (malign sorc book) you can find an Anraheirs's Claws: Pick one of the bearer's melee weapons to be Anraheris's Claw. If the wound rollfor that weapon is a 6+ add 2 to the Damage characteristic of that weapon for that attack.

So you are dealing 3 damage every 4 to wound and reroll every one. In a 3+ hit rerolling one, that's a good shot of damage.

IF you're attacking chaos units you double that damage after every modifier....

 

 

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But we still don't know if the realm artifacts are suitable for matched play right?

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4 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said:

There's a neat little combo with the Unforged and the new artefacts :P

He can add +1 to wound if the target has more then 1 wound and he can stack it with the +1 to wound from Warden King. Longbeards can let him reroll 1s to wound. So +2 to wound, rerolling 1s.

Now, in the new artefacts table from Ghur (malign sorc book) you can find an Anraheirs's Claws: Pick one of the bearer's melee weapons to be Anraheris's Claw. If the wound rollfor that weapon is a 6+ add 2 to the Damage characteristic of that weapon for that attack.

So you are dealing 3 damage every 4 to wound and reroll every one. In a 3+ hit rerolling one, that's a good shot of damage.

IF you're attacking chaos units you double that damage after every modifier....

Nice! Cool excuse to go really nuts and run a pair of Unforged, one with Anraheir's Claw and the other with a Relic Blade for maxium dwarfage.

Appropriate given that the Claw's from the Realm of Beasts, but he could also have an Amber Battlemage (on foot) cast Wildform on him for an extra +1 to wound if you wanted to go really nuts. :D 

 

3 minutes ago, smucreo said:

But we still don't know if the realm artifacts are suitable for matched play right?

Totally "legal" in any game, including matched play. It's the realm-specific spells that are only allowed if you're fighting in that particular realm. :) 

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ok wow that's a lot of extra info and artifacts haha does anyone happen to have a link to the info on realm artifacts? I want to research a bit. If it's not allowed here, a PM will do! 

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Ok, after looking at the different artifacts, I was thinking about possible combinations since for my current proposed list I would have 2 available thanks to the battalion. My current nominees are:

Ghyrstrike on the Unforged and Verdant Mantle/Jade Diadem on either the Runelord or the Warden King.

Blade of Endings on Unforged + Ethereal amulet on the Warden King (ignoring rend on the King with a 4+ reroll all fails is really strong, and you get the +2 damage on 6s with the Unforged which is cool)

Thermalrider Cloak on Unforged +  Ignax's Scales on Warden King (this combination is my favourite for flavour purposes and for making sure the Unforged actually gets into combat)

And for the list itself, I'd add the Shackles instead of the cogs to avoid being over the 2k mark (thanks a lot cost increase for the battalion 😭) for now. 

 

Edited by smucreo

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Inspired by all the chat about Free City allegiances earlier today I've made a discussion thread for them. Come check it out:

 

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1 hour ago, Double Misfire said:

Inspired by all the chat about Free City allegiances earlier today I've made a discussion thread for them. Come check it out:

 

I thank you for this, my wallet does not! 

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hey guys, I found the PDF For the tempest's eye allegiance... Is this legal in pitched battle?  Is it usually worse than order allegiance due to there only being a single ability (no traits or artifacts?)

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Just now, sorokyl said:

hey guys, I found the PDF For the tempest's eye allegiance... Is this legal in pitched battle?  Is it usually worse than order allegiance due to there only being a single ability (no traits or artifacts?)

Head to the all-new Free Cities thread. Tempest's Eye allegiance can be used on top of the basic Order if you only use units from the required factions without any named characters. :) 

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So I impulse purchased WoTGC Tempest's Eye... got a decent deal on it.  

And so it was that army number 5 was started...

I am not in a big hurry to buy more models for this, just trying to get a  sense of what to look out for (always shopping for deals, hence 4 incomplete armies).   At first the army will be a free city allegiance with mostly SCE + dispossessed. In addition to Tempest's Eye I have the original starter, soul wars, some random SCE stuff, a cogsmith, and a runelord.

The SCE contribution will largely be liberators (for battleline) and prosecutors (both because they look awesome and because I now have 9 of them) and some soul wars stuff. 

I will start out the Disposessed with my Warden King, Runelord, and 20 Ironbreaker/drakes, and grow it over time, but I'm not sure what to grow into.  

This is my interpretation of the units:

Warriors: Cheap always-battleline melee unit. Stronger in large groups. 
Longbeards: A different always-battleline melee unit that can buff nearby units (maybe take a unit of 10 always?)
Hammerers: Strong offense, conditional battleline
Ironbreakers: The elite melee unit. Tougher, more damage, more expensive. conditional battline
Quarrellers / Thunderers: Variations on similar ranged units, needs to be played in groups of 30 for max effectivness.
Irondrakes: The ranged version of Ironbreakers, elite ranged units. 

I prefer elite units (fewer models to paint) so the Ironbreakers and Irondrakes stand out to me (good thing those are the 2 kits I have so far!).    I am leaning drakes because it seems like they will always have a place.  Am open to splitting it 10/10 though.  I probably want 10 longbeards sooner rather than later for the buff.

Which unit type is the most auto-include for you, and which do you think does best in a mixed army with SCE? 

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