AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Beliman]

3 hours ago, Charly2912 said:

Would you Guys Like to See a combined battletome as big waagh? Personally I'd Like to keep 3 different factions (cities duardins, Ko and FS) with the possibility tontake coalition Units from each other. I think WE have more variety this was and more opportunities for Updates of any Kind.

I'm going to be totally honest, but I think it will not be good for us. Imo, mixing all duardins in one battletome is just about the rules as we already have seen with Orruk Warclans:

• 0 new models for Bonnesplitterz or Ironjawz. Remember that they still don't have Endless Spells nor scenary, and they are from 2016!! 
• Mix all three tomes in one book: less illustrations, less stories, etc.. overall, less things for one  faction.
• The only thing that they won is one (or two) pages of battle traits to play with all 3 diferent armies. Imo, that's campaign books are all about (Lethis, Wrath of Everchosen, etc...), no need to mix them within a battletome without a proper plan.

So, why would I want that for my Flying Duardins? I don't know, maybe with a proper plan with new models mixing all styles. But I don't want to see some of our main identity go away (that's what hooked me in 2017):

• Our Lore: In a setting with gods and magic, KOs refuse to follow them and we create our own "magi-tech".
• Our design: a bit of pirates, Steampunk, Aerial combat, a new take of victorian diver suits, strange and exotic weapons.... and of course, Dwarfs!
• Our Rules: Mainly our transports. Anything else has become obsolete over time (The Code) or is a mechanic already used in other battletomes (Aether-gold and subfactions). /sadface

I understand that the Lore can be changed to accomodate the models and/or rules, but the fans of the army need to believe it.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Beliman

[cofaxest]

9 hours ago, Beliman said:

I'm going to be totally honest, but I think it will not be good for us. Imo, mixing all duardins in one battletome is just about the rules as we already have seen with Orruk Warclans:

• 0 new models for Bonnesplitterz or Ironjawz. Remember that they still don't have Endless Spells nor scenary, and they are from 2016!! 
• Mix all three tomes in one book: less illustrations, less stories, etc.. overall, less things for one  faction.
• The only thing that they won is one (or two) pages of battle traits to play with all 3 diferent armies. Imo, that's campaign books are all about (Lethis, Wrath of Everchosen, etc...), no need to mix them within a battletome without a proper plan.

So, why would I want that for my Flying Duardins? I don't know, maybe with a proper plan with new models mixing all styles. But I don't want to see some of our main identity go away (that's what hooked me in 2017):

• Our Lore: In a setting with gods and magic, KOs refuse to follow them and we create our own "magi-tech".
• Our design: a bit of pirates, Steampunk, Aerial combat, a new take of victorian diver suits, strange and exotic weapons.... and of course, Dwarfs!
• Our Rules: Mainly our transports. Anything else has become obsolete over time (The Code) or is a mechanic already used in other battletomes (Aether-gold and subfactions). /sadface

I understand that the Lore can be changed to accomodate the models and/or rules, but the fans of the army need to believe it.

I want to be honest too. I think that most of the faction will be souped up (6 tomes for Order and Chaos, 3 tomes for Death and Destruction). And there is a number or reasons for that.
1 GW could sell more models
2 Battletomes will be updated more often
3 GW could release more faction without needing to release new book
4 GW can update 1 faction from the soup and release 1 book for multiple factions
Lore and certain faction specifics are not relevant as much if you choose between less lore for souped faction and no updates at all. 

[Beliman]

@cofaxest I agree, it seems that's a good move, but I don't like it unless it's really well planned. If it's something close to Orruk Warclans, then, I will be disappointed.

38 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

Lore and certain faction specifics are not relevant as much if you choose between less lore for souped faction and no updates at all. 

It's not about souped tome or no updates, it's about souped book or a 2d wave!!

[cofaxest]

12 hours ago, Beliman said:

 

It's not about souped tome or no updates, it's about souped book or a 2d wave!!

I can't believe that KO, FS and dispossessed will get wave 2 in the same edition. So I think that first new kits will be for dispossessed with 32mm scale models similar to StD (1-2 dual infantry kits, 1-2 single infantry kits and organ gun/cannon dualkit) with some kits that can be used in KO and FS army.(for example something like Firecannon/Magmamortar and Firequeen for FS and New(redesigned) gyrocopter/Gyrobomber and  Logisticator for KO) And with that we will get Khazalid Empire book. And after that we could get actual new wave for KO and FS.

That's my VERY optimistic thinking. 

As for the lore it depends on how you think about it. For me it's not "less lore for KO, FS and dispossessed" it's more like "more lore about united Duardin Empire" and "every aspect of duardin culture in one book". To be honest from first edition I can't say that GW did a very good job to expand KO, FS and dispossessed lore in battletomes so we still could get any interesting information(lorewise) in the novels and short stories from BL. 

Edited November 18, 2022 by cofaxest

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, cofaxest said:

I can't believe that KO, FS and dispossessed will get wave 2 in the same edition. So I think that first new kits will be for dispossessed with 32mm scale models similar to StD (1-2 dual infantry kits, 1-2 single infantry kits and organ gun/cannon dualkit) with some kits that can be used in KO and FS army.(for example something like Firecannon/Magmamortar and Firequeen for FS and New(redesigned) gyrocopter/Gyrobomber and  Logisticator for KO) And with that we will get Khazalid Empire book. And after that we could get actual new wave for KO and FS.

That could totally be possible. Imho, I don't think that all 3 Duardins are going to be updated in the same edition, I could totally see some "updates" in White Dwarf or a campaign to play as a Khazalid Empire too.

Fyreslayers already recieved a new battletome and pretty sure that they are out for a few years. I'm not sure what will happen with Cities fo Sigmar and Dispossessed after the release of Dawnbringer Crusade. But kharadrons are still not updated with a new battletome, and we are still in time for a 2d wave like Sylvaneth. That's another possibility to take in mind.

2 hours ago, cofaxest said:

As for the lore it depends on how you think about it. For me it's not "less lore for KO, FS and dispossessed" it's more like "more lore about united Duardin Empire" and "every aspect of duardin culture in one book". To be honest from first edition I can't say that GW did a very good job to expand KO, FS and dispossessed lore in battletomes so we still could get any interesting information(lorewise) in the novels and short stories from BL. 

Btw, even if I really love KOs, I'm not against a Khazalid Empire book, it's just that I don't want to lose anything in the process. Kharadrons have one of the most interesting background, with The Code, the Conference of Madralta, the treason from Lethis, ... I want to continue to recieve the same treatment.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Beliman

[cofaxest]

Just some ideas for our Ships after BCR battletome.
1 Gunhauler
10w/4+save/14" move/7 bravery - 170 pts
Weapon
Cannon - 18"/1 shot/3+/2+/-2/3+d3
Shrapnel - 12"/4 shots/3+/3+/-1/2 
Drill - 30"/1 shot/3+/3+/-3/2d3 - if enemy unit have more then 10 models - reroll dmg.
Carbain - 12"/2 shots/3+/3+/-1/2
Give 6+ ward save to other ships that can be stacked up to 5+
3 types of bombs
deal d3 MW
can't take or issue command in combat phase
can't make pile-in move

2 Frigate 
14w/3+save/12" move/7 bravery - 320 pts
Weapon
Cannon - 24"/1 shot/3+/2+/-2/3+d3
Shrapnel - 18"/4 shots/3+/3+/-1/2 
Skyhook - 30"/1 shot/3+/3+/-2/d6 - you can target terrain. If hit you can move the ship up to d6" towards the target. 
Carbain - 12"/4 shots/3+/3+/-1/2
3 types of bombs
deal d3 MW
can't take or issue command in combat phase
can't make pile-in move
Can take up to 20 models. If take more then 15 it can't flyhigh

3 Ironclad
18w/3+save/10"move/8 bravery - 540 pts
Weapon
Cannon - 30"/2 shots/3+/2+/-2/3+d3
Shrapnel - 24"/8 shots/3+/3+/-1/2 
Skyhook - 30"/1 shot/3+/3+/-2/6 - you can target terrain. If hit you can move the ship up to 6" towards the target.
Volleygun 18"/18 shots 3+/3+/-1/1
Torpedo 24"/4 shots 4+/3+/-1/d3 
Carbain - 12"/8 shots/3+/3+/-1/2
Once per game can shoot special torpedo. Target a unit within 18", on a 2+ that unit can't make ward saves.
3 types of bombs
deal d3 MW
can't take or issue command in combat phase
can't make pile-in move

Edited November 20, 2022 by cofaxest

[cofaxest]

As for the heroes
Navigator
5w/3+save/4"move/7bravery - 90 pts
Weapon
Pistol 15"/3 shots 3+/4+/-1/1 if hit, enemy unit doesn't get cover bonus in that shooting phase
Have +1 to unbind and dispell if doesn't use aether storm ability.

Khemist 
5w/4+save/4"move/7 bravery - 100 pts
Aethermatic augmentation improve rend by 1
Can have artefact that gives him an ability to unbind and/or dispell. Also he can dispell Endles spells with +2. After dispelling spell can be sucked in the "bottle" and plased in the next hero phase. If spell is in the bottle Khemist can't dispell and/or unbind.

Endrinmaster on foot - 95 pts, Endrinmaster with baloon - 170 pts
6w/4+save/4"move/7 bravery, 7w/3+save/12"move/7 bravery
Eye of Grungni just deal d3 mw on 3+
Unlocks Endrinriggers as Battleline

Admiral - 125, Brokk - 200/Magnate - 180
6w/3+save/4"move/8 bravery, 8w/3+save/12"move/8 bravery
+1 tohit vs monsters and heroes

Once per turn can issue one command twice for 1 cp.
Unlocks Thunderers/Sharpshooters as Battleline


 

[cofaxest]

As for the infantry
 

Grundstock sharpshooters -145 pts
2w/4+save/4"move/7 bravery

All rifles - serg with DB rifle

18" 2 shots (4 for serg) 3+/3+/-1/1

+1 towound rolls if enemy unit within 3".

Fumigator - the same

Drillbill - Add 3" to Unleash hell and Redeploy
Icon gives them +1 share of aethergold
 

Grundstock thunderers - 145 pts
2w/4+save/4"move/7 bravery

All special weapon - serg gives +1 attack

12" 1 shot(2 for serg) 3+/3+/-1/2

If unit have all 3 types of special weapons rend is -2

+1 towound rolls if enemy within 3".

Fumigator - the same

Drillbill - Add 3" to Unleash hell and Redeploy
Icon gives them +1 share of aethergold

Arcanauts - 100 pts
1w/5+save/4"move/6 bravery
Score while in the ships
+1 tohit within 9" from objective
In cover if within 3" of any skyvessel and can reroll battleshock
Cutter - 2 attacks/4+/4+/-/1
Pike 2 attacks 2"/4+/3+/-1/d3
Serg melee weapon 1 attack 1"/4+/3+/-1/d3
Battleline

Skywardens 6 models - 180 pts
2w/4+save/12"move/7 bravery
up to 2 volleyguns and 2 other specials + grapnel can be taken for 6 models
Pistols 2 shots 12"/3+/3+/-1/1
Volleygun 6 shots 18"/4+/4+/-1/1
Drill 1 shot 24"/4+/3+/-3/d3 if enemy unit have more then 10 models - reroll dmg.
Skyhook 1 shot 24" 4+/3+/-2/d3 you can target terrain. For each hit you can move the unit upto d3" towards the target.
Grapnel - For each grapnel 6 models count as 1 for hitched rule.  
Pike 2 attacks 2"/3+/3+/-1/d3
Skymines - if model dies from melee attack roll 2 dice on 5+ deal 1 mw(+1 to the roll if enemy unit can fly). 
Battleline in KO army

Endrinriggers 6 models - 180 pts
2w/4+save/12"move/7 bravery
up to 2 volleyguns and 2 other specials + grapnel can be taken for 6 models
Pistols 3 shots 9"/4+/3+/-1/1
Volleygun 6 shots 18"/4+/4+/-1/1
Drill 1 shot 24"/4+/3+/-3/d3 if enemy unit have more then 10 models - reroll dmg.
Skyhook 1 shot 24" 4+/3+/-2/d3 you can target terrain. For each hit you can move the unit upto d3" towards the target.
Grapnel - For each grapnel 6 models count as 1 for hitched rule.   
Saw 2 attacks 1"/4+/2+/-2/d3
Repair - Roll 1 die for each model within 3" of the ship on 4+ restore 1 w.

[cofaxest]

Oh and as for the lore it looks like in latest short story The Ancestors' Hall

Spoiler

Grombrimdal start to open Duardin underworls and want to find Valaya in one of them.  

 

[GunslingerOy]

What does a modern competitive KO list look like in this GHB or this edition. I have a hard time finding any lists featuring them and I am KO curious 

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, GunslingerOy said:

What does a modern competitive KO list look like in this GHB or this edition. I have a hard time finding any lists featuring them and I am KO curious 

I don't remember the list exactly, but the last lists that got a top 3 spot in tournaments were basically: 2 admirals 1 khermist, 1 navigator, 3x10 arkanauts and 2x Ironclads. Generally with the purple sun or some other endless spell.

[cofaxest]

3 hours ago, GunslingerOy said:

What does a modern competitive KO list look like in this GHB or this edition. I have a hard time finding any lists featuring them and I am KO curious 

- Army Faction: Kharadron Overlords
- Subfaction: Barak-Zilfin
- Triumph: Inspired
LEADERS
Arkanaut Admiral (125)*
Aetheric Navigator (85)**
- Artefacts of Power: Svaregg-Stein ‘Illuminator’ Flarepistol
Aether-Khemist (90)**
- General
- Command Traits: Collector
- Artefacts of Power: Staff of Ocular Optimisation
Aether-Khemist (90)**
- Artefacts of Power: Spell in a Bottle
BATTLELINE
Arkanaut Frigate (250)*
- Heavy Sky Cannon
Arkanaut Frigate (250)*
- Heavy Sky Cannon
Arkanaut Company (90)*
- Company Captain
- Volley Pistol
- Light Skyhook and Gun Butt
- Skypike
- Aethermatic Volley Gun and Gun Butt
BEHEMOTH
Arkanaut Ironclad (490)*
- Great Volley Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Zonbarcorp ‘Dealbreaker’ Battle Ram
OTHER
Grundstok Thunderers (270)*
- Gunnery Sergeant
- Honour Bearer
- Double-barrelled Aethershot Rifle, Gun Butt and Drillbill
- Aetheric Fumigator
Grundstok Gunhauler (155)*
- Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Zonbarcorp ‘Debtsettler’ Spar Torpedo
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x Purple Sun of Shyish (90)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
**Command Entourage
- Magnificent

TOTAL POINTS: 1985/2000

[Beliman]

SO, new preview from GHB 2023:

Spoiler

What do you think about that? I'm thinking that a battleram/great skyhook with a blendermiral followed by maybe some Riggers could surprise more than a few dudes.

The Galletian Sharpshooters seems to be a "counter" for The Key to Victory, time will tell if it will be good.

[Boar]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

What do you think about that?

Champion rules: possible boost to Admiral and Flying Endrinmaster

CA for ATK at cost of pile in: could be quite good for Endrinriggers, question is what restriction it will have

Sharpshooter battalion restrictions/requirments could be very important, as untargetable support heroes (like all of the Seraphon ones f.ex.) could be very problematic for us.

It's still hard to say one way or thre other as we need plans,tactics,strats for better picture, that being said as enjoyer of melee heroes in KO (Admiral, Hammer Endrinmaster) I am cautiously optimistic. Tough I don't really play super competitievly so YMMV.

[Beliman]

Rumors from GHB'23:

Kharadron Overlords:

Frigate: 240 (-10)
Hauler: 160 (+5)
Navigator: 100 (+15)
Admiral: 140 (+15)
Endrinmaster on foot: 80 (-15)
Brokk: 160 (-40)
Endrinmaster with Dirigible suit: 160 (-20)
Drekki: 120 (-10)
Riggers: 110 (-10)
Wardens: 100 (-5)
Thunderers: 130 (-5)
Thundrik&lads: 130 (-20)

[Flippy]

5 hours ago, Beliman said:

Rumors from GHB'23:

Kharadron Overlords:

Frigate: 240 (-10)
Hauler: 160 (+5)
Navigator: 100 (+15)
Admiral: 140 (+15)
Endrinmaster on foot: 80 (-15)
Brokk: 160 (-40)
Endrinmaster with Dirigible suit: 160 (-20)
Drekki: 120 (-10)
Riggers: 110 (-10)
Wardens: 100 (-5)
Thunderers: 130 (-5)
Thundrik&lads: 130 (-20)

Nice. The Endrimaster's and his troops reductions will really help in small games (1000 pts). 

[cofaxest]

11 hours ago, Beliman said:

Rumors from GHB'23:

Kharadron Overlords:

Frigate: 240 (-10)
Hauler: 160 (+5)
Navigator: 100 (+15)
Admiral: 140 (+15)
Endrinmaster on foot: 80 (-15)
Brokk: 160 (-40)
Endrinmaster with Dirigible suit: 160 (-20)
Drekki: 120 (-10)
Riggers: 110 (-10)
Wardens: 100 (-5)
Thunderers: 130 (-5)
Thundrik&lads: 130 (-20)

Now I feel that with new rules for the season we can think about wardens under barak-zon or riggers with endringible master. 

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, cofaxest said:

Now I feel that with new rules for the season we can think about wardens under barak-zon or riggers with endringible master. 

I don't know how it works but it seems that there is a Command that gives you +1atk if your unit don't pile in (or something like that).

If that's the case, that doubles our saw attacks for that juicy -2rend. Not sure how good it could be but it's something to take in mind.

 

[cofaxest]

15 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I don't know how it works but it seems that there is a Command that gives you +1atk if your unit don't pile in (or something like that).

If that's the case, that doubles our saw attacks for that juicy -2rend. Not sure how good it could be but it's something to take in mind.

 

Plus you can strike with master and riggers together if I'm correct. 

[Boar]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I don't know how it works but it seems that there is a Command that gives you +1atk if your unit don't pile in (or something like that).

If that's the case, that doubles our saw attacks for that juicy -2rend. Not sure how good it could be but it's something to take in mind.

 

There was something about NOT charging, which for fragile troops like Skyriggers is very bad. So we will see once we have full wording

Edited December 27, 2022 by Boar

[Beliman]

8 hours ago, Boar said:

There was something about NOT charging, which for fragile troops like Skyriggers is very bad. So we will see once we have full wording

Ouch, that would be really sad...

[Boar]

7 hours ago, Beliman said:

Ouch, that would be really sad...

Yeah, pretty much  confirmed now with all the leaks not HERO/MONSTER/NOT charging, even rule is named No Retreat, No Surrender

[Beliman]

After last LVO presentation, it was confirmed that Serpahons are going to be the summer book. Only Kharadrons and Cities of Sigmar don't have any 3.0 battletome, and we already know that Cities of Sigmar are going to be part of the Dawnbringer Crusade (or vice versa). So, there is a high chance that our book will be released sooner!

If that's the case, what do you expect to see? 
Spring starts over march 20, I don't think that there is room to see any new miniature, so I expect 0 new kits (at least, this years anniversary is an Admiral!). 
So, rules it is:

I expect a profile simplification along all book (or I hope so) with a lot more rend here and there. Factions with just one ability (plis, without overlapping our Code!) and a lot less artifacts/traits/enhancement tables (with the usual "Only Arkanaut Admiral" at the begining of the description). 
I can see some of our main mechanics being polished but not removed, with the Aethergold staying with maybe more triumphs or mixed with Heroic Actions. Our High Fly ability could still be used with all TPs from other armies.

Edited January 30, 2023 by Beliman

[Arzalyn]

47 minutes ago, Beliman said:

If that's the case, what do you expect to see? 
Spring starts over march 20, I don't think that htere is room to see new miniatures, si I expect 0 new kits (at least, this years anniversary is a KO). 
So, rules it is:

I expect a profile simplification along all book (or I hope so) with a lot more rend here and there. Factions with just one ability (plis, without overlapping our Code!) and a lot less artifacts/traits/enhancement tables (with the usual "Only Arkanaut Admiral" at the begining of the description). 
I can see some of our main mechanics being polished but not removed, with the Aethergold staying with maybe more triumphs or mixed with Heroic Actions. Our High Fly ability could still be used with all TPs from other armies.

GW don't release new tomes without at least a new foot hero. I don't expect new units, but we should get a new foot hero at the bare minimum. Probably the books rumor enginee is for this hero.

I agree with you on the changes, I expect the will polish what is already there them make big changes. I think the KO playstyle is there on our actual book, it just need to be made less messy. Lots of people talk about the NPE of the faction, but I doubt you can make a shooting focused faction without it being a little unfun to play against. What they could do on this front would be making us less reliant on our shoots for the damage by making it high quality with low volume and making or melee options similar, so we have a incentive to get in combat to finish the job.

Personally I hope they give us around 4 options for each part of the code. It will finally shiny now that subfactions don't lock those kind of things anymore. For Aethergold I hope they detach them from triumphs, so we don't suffer if they change what triumphs do again. They could give us a Aethegold effect table, including the Guild triumphs in it with the "X model only". Its will be pretty cool if they expand on those two abilities, as it will probably make KO one of the most costumizable factions, even with the expect reduction in the traits/artefacts/endrinworks options.

[Dogmantra]

My big hope for the new book is merging some of the special weapon profiles, I'd really like to see it cut down to maybe three - the standard shot, the mass but weaker shot, and the elite shot, maybe with a special ability for the various weapons to make up for them having the same profile. Thunderers potentially having six different profiles in a single unit is silly.

I hope that drill launchers become a bit less of a fish for 6s game, and that they differentiate the ship weapons a little bit more. Instead of d6 shots for shrapnel launching, 1 shot for each model in the target unit feels like a good replacement with a very specific role.

I hope the code as a build your own subfaction stays. I'd actually particularly like it if they don't even do special subfactions and simply say "if you want to be Barak Nar, pick these options". Doubt that will happen but I can dream.

If there's a new unit I'd honestly like to see a new foot infantry unit. I don't think a new ship is really needed, and there are a lot of foot heroes already. Some sort of specialist would be cool, perhaps the foot equivalent of skywardens?