AoS 2 - Legion Of Azgorh Discussion

[Lord Krungharr]

Yeah, probably not worth it in most cases.  I think if one wanted a low drop army, then taking a Warhost and Train, or Execution Herd and Train, battalions could work well, and have enough heroes to use the relics well.  But for armies with K'daai best to take those sorcerous allies and more bodies for the points.

I think for my massed war engine army that extra 120 points might be good for just another 10 Fireglaives for 4x10.  I'll be going 2nd most of the time anyways.

[Qcbob025]

Hhhmmm... i just got my copy of the General Handbook 2019 (it's about time! I was too busy in the latest month) and... just realized in the Pitched Battle there is some generic Chaos compendium back (YARRRR!!! Hellcannon is back!) but... according to the Hellcannon the keyword is Chaos, Deamon, Warmachine... but Legion of Azgorh allied are Chaos Gargant, Everchosen, Khorne, Monsters of Chaos, Nurgle, Slannesh, Slaves to Darkness and Tzeench... Soo if I understand this well... the Legion of Azgorh cannot have an Hellcannon as allied?

[Charly2912]

I've wondered myself. 

But there is no faction which fits to the hellcannons Keywords.

Except for everchosen, which can ally with "Chaos". Does this mean you can bring the hellcannon only there and in generic Chaos Armies? 

 

Or can every Chaos army take these generic Chaos allies? 

[Lord Krungharr]

Not every Chaos army can have generic 'Chaos' keyword allies unfortunately, but it does help balance things out a bit.  It would be tough to fit Archaon, 3 units of Varanguard, and then ally a Hellcannon in there.  Sure would be awesome!  I think Azgorh having Magma Cannons mitigates the need for Hellcannons, which by the way can be easily neutered by targeting their crew which is a separate unit from the cannon.  Magma Cannons don't share that weakness.  For the price of a Hellcannon you get 2 Magmas, and though their range is lacking, in an Artillery Train or next a Daemonsmith they can reach alright.  I like the tactic (without the Train battalion) of putting the Thermalrider Cloak on the Daemonsmith, having him run/fly up next to 2 Magmas, which are being towed by 2 Skullcrackers.  Hard to go wrong with that combo.

[Qcbob025]

8 hours ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Not every Chaos army can have generic 'Chaos' keyword allies unfortunately, but it does help balance things out a bit.  It would be tough to fit Archaon, 3 units of Varanguard, and then ally a Hellcannon in there.  Sure would be awesome!  I think Azgorh having Magma Cannons mitigates the need for Hellcannons, which by the way can be easily neutered by targeting their crew which is a separate unit from the cannon.  Magma Cannons don't share that weakness.  For the price of a Hellcannon you get 2 Magmas, and though their range is lacking, in an Artillery Train or next a Daemonsmith they can reach alright.  I like the tactic (without the Train battalion) of putting the Thermalrider Cloak on the Daemonsmith, having him run/fly up next to 2 Magmas, which are being towed by 2 Skullcrackers.  Hard to go wrong with that combo.

I am not talking if we should or not, but about if we could. I am not really building my list on 3 times de same things or max combo. I like building on diversity and thematic The question is if Chaos Keyword is automatically imply as Allied, is it a mistypo from GW that forgot to add it.. seem very weird to me that a hellcannon... cannot join a chaos dwarf army to be fair

[Grdaat]

13 minutes ago, Qcbob025 said:

I am not talking if we should or not, but about if we could. I am not really building my list on 3 times de same things or max combo. I like building on diversity and thematic The question is if Chaos Keyword is automatically imply as Allied, is it a mistypo from GW that forgot to add it.. seem very weird to me that a hellcannon... cannot join a chaos dwarf army to be fair

To play the devil's advocate for a second, the Legion of Azgorh is not the Chaos Dwarf army, they're a penal Legion. They have many similarities but taking them as representatives of the Chaos Dwarfs is like taking Fyreslayers as representatives of all Duardin.

It would still be very odd if they couldn't get Hellcannons, however that could be written off quite easily as something the Legion of Azgorh doesn't have access to for a variety of reasons, if they were part of the "main" Chaos Dwarf faction and not the Legion for example. I doubt we'll get any confirmation of that though.

[Grdaat]

So I wrote up three lists, and I'm a little unsure which one I should use. One's a melee focused list, which I'm not very happy with and would gladly appreciate pointers on how I could improve it. The second one's a ranged list, which I'm more happy with and looking around it seems like a lot of people had very similar lists, and might've even had the exact same list. The final one however is an allied behemoth list, taking advantage of something I haven't seen other people in the thread mention, but it seems to be legal so I'd also like advice on how to improve it. All of these lists are in spoilers because otherwise they would take up a lot of space, and all lists are copy-pasted from the Warscroll builder, made for pitched battles of 2000 points (and they all use up all 2000 of those points).

So the first up is my Blackshard List:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
LEADERS
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Allies
Infernal Guard Castellan (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Relentless  
- Darkforged Weapon & Spiteshield
- Artefact :  Armour of Bazherak the Cruel  
Infernal Guard Battle Standard Bearer (100)
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
- Artefact :  Chalice of Blood and Darkness  
UNITS
20 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (180)
20 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (180)
20 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (200)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
9 x K'Daai Fireborn (420)
WAR MACHINES
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)
BATTALIONS
Blackshard Warhost (160)

I was thinking about testing this out for a lark, but I do kinda like the way it plays. Despite using all 2000 points I don't think it's very optimized though, and I wasn't too sure on where to go with it. It might be that this is simply all that can be done with a Blackshard Warhost list. I tried to make up for the lack of mobile punch with the Sorcerer Lord + K'daai combo that a lot of people love, but since they're the only ones who can really get up front I'm iffy on that too.

Next up is the ranged list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
LEADERS
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160)
- Runestaff
- Allies
Infernal Guard Castellan (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Grotesque  
- Darkforged Weapon & Spiteshield
- Artefact :  Armour of Bazherak the Cruel  
Infernal Guard Battle Standard Bearer (100)
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
UNITS
30 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (240)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
9 x K'Daai Fireborn (420)
WAR MACHINES
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)
Iron Daemon War Engine (180)

This type of list seems pretty common here, some good ranged damage while the K'daai run in with buffs from the Sorcerer Lord to tear it up in close combat. The only thing I regret is not being able to get the discount for 12 K'daai, but I simply ran out of points and am unsure of what I should change to free up points to get those.

Finally we have my Chaos War Mammoth List:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Legion of Azgorh
LEADERS
Infernal Guard Castellan (120)
- General
- Command Trait : Grotesque  
- Darkforged Weapon & Spiteshield
- Artefact :  Armour of Bazherak the Cruel  
Infernal Guard Battle Standard Bearer (100)
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
Daemonsmith (100)
- Darkforged Weapon
UNITS
30 x Infernal Guard Ironsworn (240)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
10 x Infernal Guard Fireglaives (100)
BEHEMOTHS
Chaos War Mammoth (320)
- Allies
WAR MACHINES
Iron Daemon War Engine (180)
Magma Cannon (140)
Magma Cannon (140)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN
Horrorghast (60)

I toyed with the idea of bringing Renders or K'daai who could run with the Mammoth, but the point of the Mammoth isn't supposed to be something that my force is based around, to use 40k as an example, it's a Distraction Carnifex: something my opponent can't exactly afford to ignore and is immediately threatening right off the bat, but it isn't where the meat of my damage will come from, so the goal is to direct incoming fire at it and not all of the units behind it. Since it's going to last a long time my opponent can allocate a lot of firepower to it without too much worry, and even when it finally dies it can still wreck havoc (many targets it doesn't squash can be finished off by my magma cannons). If my opponent focuses too much fire on it, they get shot to death in return while if they try to run past it, I've got the Ironsworn to block them, or the Mammoth to run them over if they choose to go more to my flank. In addition there's also a second Daemonsmith, but his purpose is not to hang around the machines, but to be used to both unbind spells (I'd prefer to have two wizards for that) and cast Fireball or create the Horrorghast, preferably after the other Daemonsmith has already used Ash Storm against whichever unit is trying to kill the Mammoth. Horrorghast is an Endless Spell I'm choosing because with the Mammoth's Earth-shaking Charge, it inflicts -4 to the enemy's leadership, and that's before the Mammoth attacks. It'll also help when I'm shooting from afar, although It'll only be at -2 in those cases the amount of regular and Mortal Wounds I'm putting out should have some good returns on them when it comes to Battleshock. The only thing I'm not quite sure about is running 5 units of Fireglaives, but at the same time I'm unsure what I should run instead. If I were to move points for anything that isn't a Leader I'd have to delete at least two units of Fireglaives, and I'm not sure that the unit replacing them would be more effective. I'm open to suggestions on that front.

As said above, suggestions on how to improve these would be appreciated, especially on the teleport list and the Chaos War Mammoth list.

EDIT: If anyone saw this earlier there was a list that included Sayl, but as pointed out in the comment right below he cannot use his spell on Chaos Dwarfs, so I removed the list.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Grdaat
Cleaning up some phrasing. Removing a list that doesn't work.

[Charly2912]

Im at Work right Now and cant get much into Detail, but something I've realised is that the sayls list, Sounds awesome in theory, but cant be used due to the ability says Pick One Friendly Slaves to Darknes Unit. 

 

Sadly he doesnt Work on other Chaos units. 

[Grdaat]

5 minutes ago, Charly2912 said:

Im at Work right Now and cant get much into Detail, but something I've realised is that the sayls list, Sounds awesome in theory, but cant be used due to the ability says Pick One Friendly Slaves to Darknes Unit. 

 

Sadly he doesnt Work on other Chaos units. 

You're right, my mistake I missed that little bit. I'll edit that list out then, as mentioned it was something I was toying with but I'm more curious about the Mammoth list anyway.

[Lord Krungharr]

20 hours ago, Grdaat said:

To play the devil's advocate for a second, the Legion of Azgorh is not the Chaos Dwarf army, they're a penal Legion. They have many similarities but taking them as representatives of the Chaos Dwarfs is like taking Fyreslayers as representatives of all Duardin.

It would still be very odd if they couldn't get Hellcannons, however that could be written off quite easily as something the Legion of Azgorh doesn't have access to for a variety of reasons, if they were part of the "main" Chaos Dwarf faction and not the Legion for example. I doubt we'll get any confirmation of that though.

Huh huh, you said penal

Interesting and fluffy observation.  I wonder if any new Grand Alliance Chaos book will ever be done, or if Chaos Duardin will be a thing, as the WarCry Iron Golem have one in there.  I have old Astragoth as my Standard Bearer now.  He must have been captured by Drazhoath!

[Televiper11]

Took down SCE with a 1K list yesterday: Taur'ruk, Smith, Castellan, 2x10 Fireglaives, 2x Magma Cannon, 1x3 K'daai

[Poppityping]

Hi everyone. I just finished reading the Warcry short story the iron promise, as it heavily features chaos dwarfs (or 1 at least). There is a very curious passage from the story however, where the chaos dwarf states that they "tricked a god into raising this mountain for us, and took his secrets" 

[Lord Krungharr]

Hail, Hashut!  I'm making a ziggurat now to use as my transport and display base for Azgorh.

[Grdaat]

5 hours ago, Poppityping said:

Hi everyone. I just finished reading the Warcry short story the iron promise, as it heavily features chaos dwarfs (or 1 at least). There is a very curious passage from the story however, where the chaos dwarf states that they "tricked a god into raising this mountain for us, and took his secrets" 

That's probably something new, the only think I can think of that would refer to from the old world is raising Zharr-Naggrund from the ground. However I highly doubt anyone would claim they were tricking Hashut into raising it up so that they could learn his secrets.

[Grdaat]

Out of curiosity, what would be the better ally to pull in if I wanted to bring in a monster, a regular Giant/Gargant, a Siege variant, or a Mammoth? A list I put up before used the Mammoth, but I'd like to try a Siege Gargant since they were made by the Legion of Azgorh before. Are they any good, or would it be better to go with a regular one or just stick with the Mammoth?

I should probably mention that technically the Siege Gargant doesn't have the CHAOS GARGANT keyword, it only has the CHAOS, GARGANT keywords. Nobody that I play with is going to use that technicality to prevent me from using them though.

[Charly2912]

The only Good Thing about the Siege Garant is his save especially against Shooting, the ability to ignore Terrain and that he cant Fall down when charging. 

But its 40 points more than the regular gargant and the dmg output is like 0. 

I Enjoy my gargants some times, but i prefer the usual one. But they are both Not the best units

 

Cant speak about the mammoth. 

 

[Lord Krungharr]

A Chaos Mammoth is kinda like Skarbrand; the enemy MUST target it or they will be destroyed by it.  Problem with the Mammoth now is the new base size, it's as big as a sheet of paper!  So very hard to maneuver around the table at all.

[Grdaat]

35 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

A Chaos Mammoth is kinda like Skarbrand; the enemy MUST target it or they will be destroyed by it.  Problem with the Mammoth now is the new base size, it's as big as a sheet of paper!  So very hard to maneuver around the table at all.

What I was thinking is if I took something like a Mammoth, my opponents would be so busy dealing with it that they'd be neglecting my Maga Cannons and Fireglaives. I'd like to bring along something good to help beef up my army in a major way and so a monster like a Mammoth seemed like a good idea. Their rules also seemed really good, and I was curious if other people thought so as well. I take it you're in favour of them, base size aside?

[Lord Krungharr]

Oh yeah, Mammoths are awesome!  Especially in something like a Slaanesh army, where they could run and charge and attack twice.

[Grdaat]

Scratch what I said about the Legion of Azgorh not being able to take Chaos Siege Gargants, I didn't notice they could take Monsters of Chaos as allies, which Siege Gargants technically are. This also opens up the following as allies:

Razorgors, Warhounds, Jabberslythe, Chimera, Cockatrice, Slaughterbrute, Mutalith Vortex Beast, Curs'd Ettin, Gigantic Chaos Spawn, Skinwolves and the Warpfire Dragon.

Anyone play with any of these in a Legion of Azgorh army? I'd think the Cockatrice would be good, they usually are. The rules for the Gigantic Chaos Spawn look promising, the Skin Wolves look a little too pricey, but the Chimera seems like it could put in some good work. What do you think, or should I just avoid all of them and stick with my Mammoth?

[Lord Krungharr]

I can testify that Gigantic Chaos Spawns are really fun to play, though they rarely do much damage.  I think I like them better in 40k.

4 Cockatrices would fit in a max allied slot for Azgorh.  They're pretty fragile but to pop up and do 4D6 mortal wounds to someone is spicy good, and they get bunches of attacks with the talons on the charge. 

Jabberslythes are also pretty good, and apparently cheaper than before!  They do mortals when they take damage, like Aliens, and the possibility of freezing enemies in their tracks is always good, even on a 6+.

Skin Wolves used to be better, I'd skip those.  Warhounds for a cheap fast screen aren't bad.  Razorgors could be a surprise attack unit, I've used a single one once, but a maxed unit could be good.  Mutaliths are better than the Gigantic Spawn I think, though still pretty random.  Slaughterbrutes are meh.

Chimera is certainly expensive but decent in combat too at least.

All are more useable than the Mammoth I think though I suppose you could even leave that in your backfield to dare enemies into taking its objective if it couldn't march forward because of terrain?  

[Lord Krungharr]

This is silly and might be the most ranged mortal wounds I think any army could do, and all without spells!  Not saying it would win a bunch, but I think it could spoil someone's day

400     4x Daemonsmiths (give 1 the Thermalrider Cloak)

600    6x Fireglaives

400   4x Cockatrices (allies, Monsters of Chaos)

560   4x Magma Cannons

1960 total, good for a triumph.  I'm only 2 Daemonsmiths, 20 Fireglaives, and 4 Cockatrices away!  Boy, Azgorh is fun to play......

 

 

[Grdaat]

35 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

This is silly and might be the most ranged mortal wounds I think any army could do, and all without spells!  Not saying it would win a bunch, but I think it could spoil someone's day

400     4x Daemonsmiths (give 1 the Thermalrider Cloak)

600    6x Fireglaives

400   4x Cockatrices (allies, Monsters of Chaos)

560   4x Magma Cannons

1960 total, good for a triumph.  I'm only 2 Daemonsmiths, 20 Fireglaives, and 4 Cockatrices away!  Boy, Azgorh is fun to play......

 

 

With that setup you might want to just take Chaos as your allegiance, since you can use Dark Avenger or Lord of War to boost those units of Fireglaives. Dark Avenger against Order units with them would be disgusting.

[Lord Krungharr]

Interesting idea!   Would one even miss the Blackshard Armor Allegiance Ability that much?   Being a shooty force the Grotesque command trait isnt all that important.

 I have wanted to try out a grand Chaos alliance for my Skullcrackers and Bull Centaurs too to see if that +1 to hit trait could work some extra wonders too.  

[Grdaat]

12 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Interesting idea!   Would one even miss the Blackshard Armor Allegiance Ability that much?   Being a shooty force the Grotesque command trait isnt all that important.

 I have wanted to try out a grand Chaos alliance for my Skullcrackers and Bull Centaurs too to see if that +1 to hit trait could work some extra wonders too.  

I've been wondering that myself, the list I'm most fond of at the moment uses four Fireglaives and I feel like it's much better to buff my chances of hitting than ignoring the first wound suffered. The Crown of Conquest also seems like it would help, since it seems like it implies you get to use command abilities without spending command points.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Grdaat
Slight fix.