AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[broche]

58 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I'm not sure I'd run an MK in Big Waaagh! the army feels way more about grinding than it does about the heavy impact type characters/units.

I would drop him for a Foot Boss, Wurgog and extra body and I'm pretty sure it would be good as well. But Krusha does bring you something (flying and high mobility) and some army just can't deal with him once it start gaining wound. 

However i would never drop Brutish cunning in a big waaagh. The key to the list is that you get all those nice bonus while keeping access to Migthy Destroyer.  Attacking in hero phase and option to double move are just too good to pass.

[varyn]

Hello everyone,

 

I am thinking of getting into AoS after a break of about 2 years and Ironjawz have caught my eye.

I've looked over the new book and put together the following 1000 point list, I'd be grateful for any feedback:

 

Megaboss (Brutish cunning, Metalrippa's Klaw)

Warchanter (Get 'em beat)

20 Ardboyz

3 Gore-gruntas (Pig-iron choppas)

3 Gore-gruntas (Pig-iron choppas)

940 points

 

I'm not sure what to do with the 60 points left over? additional command point?

thanks for reading

 

[Malakree]

14 minutes ago, varyn said:

I'm not sure what to do with the 60 points left over? additional command point?

Always yes. CPs are the lifeblood of Ironjawz, there are times my aetherquartz broach (when you spend a CP you get it back on a 5+) goes nuts and I spend 1 CP to move my entire army in the hero phase.

I'd also suggest splitting the 20 ardboys into either 10+10 or 10+5+5. Gives better board coverage for objectives and screening.

Inversely combine the two units of 3 GGs into one unit of 6. They are your big kill unit and being able to consolidate buffs onto them (Mighty destroyers/+1damage) is really good. It's also worth pointing out that it takes a minimum of 6 wounds to force a battle shock on GGs while it's 4 for ardboys. 

[tom_gore]

Proceeded to win a 3-round local 1500 pts Battlehost tournament yesterday. My list and my opponent lists will be added later when the tournament system starts working again.

Game 1 vs. Disciples of Tzeentch, Duality of Death

I deployed most of my army on the left side and only 1 chanter, pigs and 1 group of brutes to the right. My opponent did a reverse mirror, deploying most of her forces on my right side and only the acolytes and the skyfires on my left side.

She chose to go first. Failed to cast half her spells (!) and then took some pot shots with the Skyfires, killing one of my Ardboys. Thanked her for triggering Mad as Hell, ensuring that I would be able to reach the left side objective with the Ardboys. Megaboss spent a CP to trigger rampaging destroyers and surged forward to meet and mince the skyfires. I ran the pigs to capture the right side objective as she had held her pink horrors back to screen Kairos. Brutes ran forward as I failed to cast Hand of Gork. Both objectives in my control on turn 1.

The next turns, her bad luck with casting rolls continued, allowing me to push forward like a freight train. She was turtling into a corner while leaving both objectives in my control. After 3 turns it was 12-0 but we decided to play out the 4th turn. I finally managed to break through the screens of horrors and destroyed Kairos.

She was a fairly new player to AoS. I gave her some tips about playing more aggressively for the objectives, since she already knew how to screen her casters (my megaboss with +7 strength of victory stood in testament to that).

Major Win for Ironjawz

 

Game 2 vs. Flesh-Eater Courts, Total Commitment

Deployed my whole army to the frontline, fairly wide, with Weirdnob fairly close to the center so I could teleport units to the fray. He went first, hesitated about making a long-ish charge at my Megaboss but decided against it and screened his TG. Summoned the courtier and the bats to my left flank but failed to charge with both of them, allowing me to mop them up with the Ardboys and Brutes I had at that flank.

After that we played cat and mouse with the TG vs. MB for a turn, until I managed to teleport Brutes into his flank and got a double turn with another successful teleport. The brutes cleaned up his support while the Ardboys tied up the flayers. At that point I was brave enough to charge forward with my MB and with unlucky rolls his TG failed to kill it in the countercharge, allowing me to mop up the remains. Table was clean at 4th turn.

Major Win for Ironjawz

 

Game 3 vs. Gloomspite Gitz, Places of Arcane Power

Another wide deployment by me. Planned to take both flanks with Warchanters and the middle one with Megaboss, but plans changed when opponent deployed almost his whole army to my left side. With the highly mobile squigs I had to move my Megaboss to engage them and protect my Warchanter so I could hold at least 1 objective for as long as possible. Gave him the first turn.

Opponent managed to teleport the Trolls to my right side objective, effectively ****** my plans to take it with the other warchanter. Fortunately he failed the charge with the trolls. I buffed up my brutes on that side and charged them while my megaboss plowed into the goblin screens on the left side. In the combat phase I even managed to active Killa Beat against the trolls, but then made a greedy mistake and fought with my megaboss first. A few missed attacks later (-1 from the netters, mind you) there were still 4 goblins left and my hope for smashing and bashing went with it. The trolls then minced the brutes, leaving my right flank quite outmatched (I should of course have fought with the brutes first, although they could only hope to kill 3-4 trolls at best.  My megaboss had Mystic Shield up so the gobbos literally had a bigger chance of hurting themselves than my MB).

Luck intervened as he charged my megaboss with his Mangler boss and managed to cause a puny 5 wounds to him (I saved 5 4+ saves of 2 damage each on one roll). He didn't get a double turn and my megaboss retaliated twice, dispatching it and effectively securing the whole left flank. In the middle there was the last scrap, with Ardboys getting worn out by the trolls and my shamans trying to get some points off the middle objective. He charged in with his squig boss, but ended up being beaten to death by the Weirdnob (all hits, all wounds, he failed all saves and I rolled 7 for damage). Shook hands at that point.

Major Win for Ironjawz

 

Observations. Megaboss with the kit I had chosen him was a perfect balance between tanky and killy. He survived all three games (with a little luck, admittedly) and did most of the killing in each. Brutes are in a tough spot in IJ lists now. They're outshined by the Ardboys in almost every aspect. With a bit more mobility and bravery they could be wonderful, but now they're way too reliant on good run/charge rolls and battleshock tests.

Teleport is an incredibly powerful too for the Ironjawz. I wouldn't dream of fielding them without it anymore, and at 2k points with a second artifact it's going to be the shamanic skullcape, as I failed way too many teleports with a 6 in casting roll.

CP are still at a premium, but I don't feel like the Brooch is an absolute must anymore. At 2K you can start with 3 points and coupled with Ironfist and the Fungoid, you should have plenty throughout the game if you don't waste them for trivial stuff.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 102

Allegiance: Tzeentch

Leaders
Kairos Fateweaver (380)
- Lore of Change: Tzeentch's Firestorm
Gaunt Summoner (160)
- General
- Trait: Arcane Sacrifice
- Artefact: Wellspring of Arcane Might
- Lore of Fate: Glimpse the Future
Ogroid Thaumaturge (170)
- Lore of Fate: Infusion Arcanum

Battleline
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
- Lore of Change: Bolt of Tzeentch
10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (180)
- Lore of Change: Fold Reality
10 x Kairic Acolytes (80)

Units
3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Aethervoid Pendulum (50)
The Burning Head (30)
Umbral Spellportal (70)

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 69

 

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Hollowmourne
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (420)
- General
- Trait: Grave Robber
- Artefact: Corpsefane Gauntlet
- Lore of Madness: Spectral Host
- Mount Trait: Gruesome Bite
Abhorrant Archregent (240)
- Artefact: The Dermal Robe
- Lore of Madness: Deranged Transformation
Crypt Haunter Courtier (120)

Battleline
6 x Crypt Horrors (300)
3 x Crypt Horrors (150)
10 x Crypt Ghouls (100)

Battalions
Abattoir (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain
Chalice of Ushoran (50)

Charnel Throne

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 73

 

Allegiance: Gloomspite Gitz
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Loonboss on Giant Cave Squig (110)
- General
- Moonclan Stabba
- Trait: Dead Shouty
Loonboss on Mangler Squigs (280)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: Squig Lure
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Lore of the Moonclans: The Hand of Gork

Battleline
40 x Stabbas (260)
- Stabbas & Moon Shields
- 6x Barbed Nets
- 1x Moonclan Flag Bearers
- 1x Badmoon Icon Bearers
20 x Shootas (120)
- 3x Barbed Nets
- 1x Badmoon Icon Bearers
6 x Squig Herd (70)

Units
10 x Boingrot Bounderz (200)
6 x Rockgut Troggoths (280)

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 142

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by tom_gore
Lists added

[Guero]

New player, pretty clueless about how to use my gore gruntas. What's the best weapon for them to use: pig iron choppas or gore hackas? Also, if I have 6 of them, would it be better to run 2x3 or just one big group of 6?

[broche]

4 hours ago, tom_gore said:

CP are still at a premium, but I don't feel like the Brooch is an absolute must anymore.

I've the same reasoning. Also great green vision will give you mostly the same amount of point, or brutish cunning for free MD use. I think they list that need to farm CP are either Ardfist or super aggresive list that plan to MD all units in turn 1. Otherwise most CP end up used on generic command ability.

 

27 minutes ago, Guero said:

New player, pretty clueless about how to use my gore gruntas. What's the best weapon for them to use: pig iron choppas or gore hackas? Also, if I have 6 of them, would it be better to run 2x3 or just one big group of 6?

One group of 6 is good to use as an hammer. Both weapon option are good. Hacka will do sligtly more damage on the charge, and you get 2'' reach. But bottomline there is not a huge difference, damage output say pretty similar.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, broche said:

I've the same reasoning. Also great green vision will give you mostly the same amount of point, or brutish cunning for free MD use. I think they list that need to farm CP are either Ardfist or super aggresive list that plan to MD all units in turn 1. Otherwise most CP end up used on generic command ability.

Ironsunz, Mighty Destroyers, RR1's to save/hit, +1 to hit, reroll key charges, ignore battleshock and the once per game +1 attack waaagh!

There are a ton of things we need command points for and personally if I wasn't planning to be super aggressive with Ironjawz I'd be playing Big Waaagh! instead. The biggest problem I've found with Big Waaagh! is that you have to play cagey turn 1 in order to hit your full potential before it really kicks off, means you're vulnerable to alphastrikes etc.

With Ironjawz you can go straight away and use the massive mobility to instantly threaten an opponent or pin them if the mission allows it.

5 hours ago, tom_gore said:

CP are still at a premium, but I don't feel like the Brooch is an absolute must anymore. At 2K you can start with 3 points and coupled with Ironfist and the Fungoid, you should have plenty throughout the game if you don't waste them for trivial stuff.

Man the list I'm going to try and my next club is starts with 4 CP's, gets a 5th on turn 1, has the 4+ CP from a weirdnob AND runs aetherquartz. That's using the Gorefist to trim down the requirement for MD first turn, since I get the 9" move on them anyway.

On the turn you go I'd say you're ideally looking at burning 4 CP's on +1 to hit and 4 CP's on RR1's to hit depending on what units are in which key enemy units. It's so important to be able to trigger that smashing and bashing and being on 2s RR1's makes you so much less vulnerable to RNG.

EDIT: I am considering dropping the extra CP to swap my 2nd warchanter into a Wurrgog for the extra spells and generation potential...have to test that though, not sure I want to be on only 1 WC.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Malakree

[tom_gore]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Man the list I'm going to try and my next club is starts with 4 CP's, gets a 5th on turn 1, has the 4+ CP from a weirdnob AND runs aetherquartz. That's using the Gorefist to trim down the requirement for MD first turn, since I get the 9" move on them anyway.

On the turn you go I'd say you're ideally looking at burning 4 CP's on +1 to hit and 4 CP's on RR1's to hit depending on what units are in which key enemy units. It's so important to be able to trigger that smashing and bashing and being on 2s RR1's makes you so much less vulnerable to RNG.

EDIT: I am considering dropping the extra CP to swap my 2nd warchanter into a Wurrgog for the extra spells and generation potential...have to test that though, not sure I want to be on only 1 WC.

Warchanters are the super champions of IJ at the moment. Personally, I even consider running 3 of them in 2K points but I can't bring myself to paint another identical model. Will see what the IJ warband for Beastgrave will bring along.

Violent Fury is probably one of the best buffs in the game at the moment. Hell, it's so good I'm fearing it will be nerfed at some point.

As for the CP's, spending 8 points to ensure hits still leaves you to roll 1s and 2s on wounds, so even then you could get unlucky and lose the S&B chain. It's a dice game so I accept that sometimes things don't go as planned.

Edited November 25, 2019 by tom_gore

[Malakree]

2 minutes ago, tom_gore said:

Warchanters are the super champions of IJ at the moment. Personally, I even consider running 3 of them in 2K points but I can't bring myself to paint another identical model. Will see what the IJ warband for Beastgrave will bring along.

Yeah I know how good they are, the first is for the unit of 6 GG's. I'm not sure how important it is on the cabbage or 2 units of 3s with it.

Choice is basically between 

• Wurrgog + Weirdnob with HoG and GGV
• Wurrgog + Warchanter with irrelevant artefact.
• Warchanter+Weirdnob with HoG and GGV + CP

So for me it really comes down to the Warchanter+CP vs Wurrgog. I think the CP is largely equivalent with the 4+ CP which leaves it as +1 damage vs 2 unbinds, Mystic Shield and Fist of Gork.

[broche]

@Malakree I think your CP consumption are skewed by your aggressive play style.  I've run a low - CP blootooth with some success. Personnaly I rarely use the +1 to hit except to cancel a -1 to hit. I also usually bet a 20-30 point to get triumph which act as a CP but cheaper and better effect.

My priority usually goes as follow:

High (use whenever you can): Mighty destroyer and Reroll charge

Attacking in hero phase for free when you can is a no brainer, and a failed charge can loose the game.

Medium: Battleshock / reroll 1 to save

If you loose 3+ pig/brutes or 6+ ardboys it's usually a good idea use IP. RR save 1 on Maw Krusha should also be used if there is a reasonable risk he'll die (I lost to slaneesh because I was greedy on that one). In any case, you'll rarely use those more than twice per game (I think i never used IP more than once personally)

The rest are nice to have and i'll use them sporadically if I've extra CP.

 

[Andrew G]

Is everyone playing 'ardfist that you can spend as many CP as you want and summon as many 'ardboyz as you have successes? 
Tom from Warhammer Weekly made a comment that they've ruled in other books that anything that requires a trigger/condition in order to use a CP has been ruled that you can only respond once to that trigger/condition and specifically called out 'ardfist players for abusing this before the F.A.Q

Personally, I've been absolutely wrecking with this, but it's obviously contingent on being able to use multiple CP to summon 'ardboyz after a teleport/ dying as a screen.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
Ardfist (120)
Scuttletide (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 153

I'm not big on the Brutes, but I wanted everything else exactly as is and that leaves  280 points leftover. I don't own enough 'ardboyz to include 15 more with how many I typically spawn throughout the game, and Brutes aren't exactly terrible ....

Edit* I've also ran this as Ironsunz, probably depends on your meta/terrain whether you're extremely worried about your warchanter getting sniped and want to hedge against at the expense of aetherquartz. The charge in your opponents phase is really good if you failed the teleport and your opponent is actively avoid the 3 intial 'ardboyz units.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Andrew G

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, broche said:

I think your CP consumption are skewed by your aggressive play style.  I've run a low - CP blootooth with some success. Personnaly I rarely use the +1 to hit except to cancel a -1 to hit. I also usually bet a 20-30 point to get triumph which act as a CP but cheaper and better effect.

I will not disagree with this, it seems the argument I'm then making is the slightly more egotistical "My way of playing Ironjawz is the correct way of playing !!!" Still going to make that claim but will preface it with the statement that I am being egotistical, I know it and now I'm going to throw my reasons at you to see how well you can dismantle them.

Note: Obviously I'm talking about hyper tuned, maximum potential power-gaming ******. If you 6 Footbosses then go for it, I'm not here to ****** on peoples fun.

• Ironjawz should always be played with a hyper aggressive.

There's a ton of reasons why Ironjawz are suited to this playstyle, the massive reach combined with Smashing and Bashing is obvious, I think the more key argument I would make is however 

• If you are not playing hyper aggressive with Ironjawz you should just play big waaagh! instead.

Obviously this is a hell of a statement I just ask you step back for a moment and consider it from a playstyle perspective. What are the primary differences between the two allegiances, what strengths does one have over the other. Smashing and Bashing is super obvious so ask yourself what this supports and how it works mechanically. SnB allows you to get round the combat priority, this is important because relatively Ironjawz are actually quite soft. No after damage saves, no -hit, only a 4+ save and low bravery. This supports a blitzkrieg style of play where you hit the enemy so hard they can't ever muster a response. By exactly the same token Mighty Destroyers allows your army to explode into motion the moment your opponent shows the slightest hint of weakness. 

Lets assume you're playing a slow methodical style that's NOT hyper aggressive. What does Ironjawz really bring to the table, Hand of Gork? A little extra burst of speed? Realistically not a great deal. The threat potential is there but it's not oppressively overwhelming in the same way that a hyper aggressive IJ style is, it's just more flat.

Take the same situation but your allegiance is Big Waaagh! the first and most obvious thing is that you really don't want to be bombing across the field and trying to explode out the other side of your opponent turn 1. It's not that it doesn't support the hyper aggressive style, it's that it actively punishes it. You're so much stronger Turn 2 than you are Turn 1 it's unreal. How about the more conservative, contained style. Well it means that when you actually get to battle you're going to be +1/+1 and have a 6++. It's mindblowing how strong the Big Waaagh! is once it's bonuses start stacking and what do you need to do that? Time. Best way to get time, slow methodical play.

As an example, lets consider the list by @tom_gore 

11 hours ago, tom_gore said:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Ironclad
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 102

No Mighty Destroyers hurts a bit but is it worth trading for +1/+1 and 6++?  The only other thing you're losing is one warbeat. On the other hand you're generating 4+d6 waaagh! points just because with an extra +2 with a CP. You've already established that without my ridiculous spam the CP dependency tanks a ton. Not to mention that the whole "7+ to cast HoG" is suddenly a lot less painful since you can give yourself +2 to cast.

Thus my contention is that IJ is designed for my hyper aggressive style list/play while the list styles that you guys are suggesting all gain large boosts just by switching to Big Waaaagh! even before you factor in the extra unit diversity. Throw an Ironfist ontop and you've even got MD!

[broche]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Ironjawz should always be played with a hyper aggressive.

That is quite a statement  

I'm more moderate. I think Ironjawz favour aggressive play, but you can be aggressive without going all-in.  Both Ironjawz and Big Waaagh had good success  with defensive style of play. I think Ironsunz have value in a defensive list. For exemple, with big waaagh if you loose your heroes early you'll not be in good shape (as you loose both their buff and WP generation) while Ironsunz will actually protect them in turn 1, plus ironsunz countercharge is a pretty defensive ability. 

What I actually like with the new Ironjawz is opposite to before you can use controlled agression, as 2 units buffed by warchanter is enough to wreck havoc against most list, and you actually keep force in reserve.

[tom_gore]

I do actually agree with you that the correct playstyle for IJ is going hyper aggressive. If I had more GG models I would probably go for just that - a massive alpha strike that will wipe the table clean in one glorious combat phase. I actually did play my list pretty aggressive anyway when it came to objectives and that pretty much won me the game - although against the lists I went against were also outmatched in killing power and I would have tabled them anyway. Still, with the first and third scenario and the consecutive point gain forgetting the objectives early game is just not an option if you plan to win.

However, as I don't have more GG models and I don't plan to buy more unless I run into a better deal than buying the SC set and selling off the rest, for 2K points I'm indeed torn between BW and IJ allegiance. Taking the Ironfist is in any case a no-brainer, and model-wise I'm stuck with adding more Ardboys (which is not a bad thing). Adding Scuttletide is also nice so I would try to find room for that.

 

[Kasper]

1 hour ago, tom_gore said:

I do actually agree with you that the correct playstyle for IJ is going hyper aggressive. If I had more GG models I would probably go for just that - a massive alpha strike that will wipe the table clean in one glorious combat phase. I actually did play my list pretty aggressive anyway when it came to objectives and that pretty much won me the game - although against the lists I went against were also outmatched in killing power and I would have tabled them anyway. Still, with the first and third scenario and the consecutive point gain forgetting the objectives early game is just not an option if you plan to win.

However, as I don't have more GG models and I don't plan to buy more unless I run into a better deal than buying the SC set and selling off the rest, for 2K points I'm indeed torn between BW and IJ allegiance. Taking the Ironfist is in any case a no-brainer, and model-wise I'm stuck with adding more Ardboys (which is not a bad thing). Adding Scuttletide is also nice so I would try to find room for that.

 

I don't think he nesscecarily means aggressive as in alphastrike lists. It's more like you really have the tools to capitalize on your opponent not screening properly, moving out of position with key units etc. Ironjawz can be super punishing with Mighty Destroyers and the Ironsunz CA.

 

Big Waaagh definitely lends itself towards a lot more bodies (Ardboyz) to withstand not having Smashing and Bashing imo. and then grind it out with super combat effective units.

[Kasper]

On 11/17/2019 at 7:35 PM, Waaaaaaght? said:

Dang, that's what I thought, but I hoped against it. Gotrek is very hard to damage or kill. His main weakness is just to run from him, he is pretty slow.

His warscroll base movement speed is slow, sure, but he can be buffed to run and charge etc. Is it the same threat range as a MawKrusha with MD? Not at all, but thinking he's a snail is just not true. 😛 His true weakness is endless spells imo.

[Martijn de Bruin]

Looking for some advice. In my group the following armies are being played: Mawtribes, Daughters of Khaine, Ossiarch Bonereapers, Seraphon, Stormcast Eternals, Slaanesh, Skaven & Maggotkin. We usually play 2K but some of us want 1K matches so we can speed things up. We will be playing matches on 4'x4' tables. I'm trying to build the best/competitive list possible. This is my initial version and would like some feedback on wether it's a good list or if should make changes to make it the best possible list. 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 76

Edited December 1, 2019 by Martijn de Bruin

[Jabbuk]

1 hour ago, Martijn de Bruin said:

Looking for some advice. In my group the following armies are being played: Mawtribes, Daughters of Khaine, Ossiarch Bonereapers, Seraphon, Stormcast Eternals, Slaanesh, Skaven & Maggotkin. We usually play 2K but some of us want 1K matches so we can speed things up. We will be playing matches on 4'x4' tables. I'm trying to build the best/competitive list possible. This is my initial version and would like some feedback on wether it's a good list or if should make changes to make it the best possible list. 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 76

Your list looks cool. I gotta ask though, what is your thought process behind taking the Weirdnob as general? What kind of playstyle will you take?

Also, personally I'm not a big fan of taking a battalion in 1k list. 160 pts is A LOT in such small scale and your army will be much stronger and resilient with more units, especially considering some of those you mentioned have summon.

Also, in 1k list, you might play on a smaller scale board? So having Ironfist seems less important to me because your army will be compact enough.

Consider adding an additional unit and perhaps a Megaboss instead of a battalion because he can hold his own and is equal to a combat unit by himself. You also gain some nice synergies with his CA and the Waaagh which could make a difference in such small scale games. I'm a fan of big numbers in Wound count because Ironjawz is truly scary when there's a lot of bodies. Our units are extremely good.

My two cents

Edited December 1, 2019 by Jabbuk

[Malakree]

@Martijn de Bruin 

Embrace da Cheese, Bring da Cheese, Be da Big Cheese!

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 980 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 72
 

[Jabbuk]

6 minutes ago, Malakree said:

@Martijn de Bruin 

Embrace da Cheese, Bring da Cheese, Be da Big Cheese!

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 980 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 72
 

That works too haha, I also totally forgot that you don't have a Warchanter, which is the best damn unit of this whole army @Martijn de Bruin

[Martijn de Bruin]

 

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

@Martijn de Bruin 

Embrace da Cheese, Bring da Cheese, Be da Big Cheese!

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat

Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 980 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 72
 

I felt this coming 😄

Not a huge fan of Ardfist, expecting the ability to be limited soon. But I suppose I asked for it hehe. 

I only have 30 boyz available to me right now and will not be getting more just for Ardfist.

1 hour ago, Jabbuk said:

Your list looks cool. I gotta ask though, what is your thought process behind taking the Weirdnob as general? What kind of playstyle will you take?

Also, personally I'm not a big fan of taking a battalion in 1k list. 160 pts is A LOT in such small scale and your army will be much stronger and resilient with more units, especially considering some of those you mentioned have summon.

Also, in 1k list, you might play on a smaller scale board? So having Ironfist seems less important to me because your army will be compact enough.

Consider adding an additional unit and perhaps a Megaboss instead of a battalion because he can hold his own and is equal to a combat unit by himself. You also gain some nice synergies with his CA and the Waaagh which could make a difference in such small scale games. I'm a fan of big numbers in Wound count because Ironjawz is truly scary when there's a lot of bodies. Our units are extremely good.

My two cents

Being a 2 drop I expect to start first most of the time and want be aggressive from T1, being able to charge with GG and even Boyz by teleporting them. Or i.e use Mystic Shield on the GG if they need to hold something.

The reason I chose Ironfist is that I feel the GG are limited in movement if my source of MD has to come from the Shaman or Warchanter who are likely not as aggressive on the field. I definitely see your point on having more models instead though.

These are the models I have available to me right now:

1 MBMK, 1 MB, 1 Shaman, 3 Warchanters, 30 Ardboyz, 9 GG (Choppas), 10 Brutes (Choppas)

What would my best option, disregarding Ardfist?

[Jabbuk]

16 minutes ago, Martijn de Bruin said:

 

I felt this coming 😄

Not a huge fan of Ardfist, expecting the ability to be limited soon. But I suppose I asked for it hehe. 

I only have 30 boyz available to me right now and will not be getting more just for Ardfist.

Being a 2 drop I expect to start first most of the time and want be aggressive from T1, being able to charge with GG and even Boyz by teleporting them. Or i.e use Mystic Shield on the GG if they need to hold something.

The reason I chose Ironfist is that I feel the GG are limited in movement if my source of MD has to come from the Shaman or Warchanter who are likely not as aggressive on the field. I definitely see your point on having more models instead though.

These are the models I have available to me right now:

1 MBMK, 1 MB, 1 Shaman, 3 Warchanters, 30 Ardboyz, 9 GG (Choppas), 10 Brutes (Choppas)

What would my best option, disregarding Ardfist?

Cool. To me the 6 GGs group at this 1k pts game is gonna act like a huge hammer. You're either gonna use MD right away and punish a bad deployment, or you won't MD them later because they'll be stuck in a fight and will have done their job. I understand your concern about the MD source that's far but again, to me at 1k, I would be less threatened by scenarios where something important happens far away from my army. Then again, I don't know how your friends play, I could be wrong. For us, when we play at 1k, I believe the board is smaller to make it more interesting. Otherwise, it's a bit silly when you have so few units.

I personally think MawKrusha at 1k and less is too commiting. The general consensus here I believe is to go for ardboys all the way. I personally love brutes and will field 2 groups and maybe more in the future if I gather the strength to paint 10 with gore-hackas, but that's just because I think they look so good.

Honestly, at 1k pts, I would tend to drop the Weirdnob and go for MB and Warchanter and mix a GGs and Ardboys combination that will fit your meta. If you have a lot of casting, in your meta, you might want to add a Weirdnob for a shot at dispelling. GGs are incredibly good. If you're more of an aggressive player, I'd say try to fit as many as you can. The teleport shenanigans for me rarely work, it never triggers when I need it. Although in your list you seemed to spec for it with your Weirdnob but I tend to think teleporting is less important in smaller scale games. Vince Venturella is also kind of an advocate of going strong melee and ****** casting. I think at 1k that's what I would do. 

If you wanna go full aggro, max out on GGs, get another wave of ardboys and MB and Warchanter and see how you like it.

I hope that helps.

[Malakree]

26 minutes ago, Martijn de Bruin said:

I felt this coming 😄

Not a huge fan of Ardfist, expecting the ability to be limited soon. But I suppose I asked for it hehe. 

I only have 30 boyz available to me right now and will not be getting more just for Ardfist.

Im actually not suggesting you get more. At 30 you can convert each of those 5s to 10, same drop count and you gain a Warchanter.

I started referring to none exploitive versions as a "softfist". You're basically using it as it was intended, to recycle the ardboys for more wounds/bodies. Plus the second hero let's you fit in the aetherquartz. Try it without the exploit, just replacing the units continually, it's still good.

[Jabbuk]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Im actually not suggesting you get more. At 30 you can convert each of those 5s to 10, same drop count and you gain a Warchanter.

I started referring to none exploitive versions as a "softfist". You're basically using it as it was intended, to recycle the ardboys for more wounds/bodies. Plus the second hero let's you fit in the aetherquartz. Try it without the exploit, just replacing the units continually, it's still good.

I like the softfist idea personally too. I will definitely try it later.

[Malakree]

49 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

I like the softfist idea personally too. I will definitely try it later.

I ran it at 1k in the chrimbobo doubles. It was solid especially in Big Waaagh!

In one of my games I summoned 10 on the edge near an objective, my opponent sent 15 hearthguard into them, lost 2 and the rest of my unit fled. Spent the CP and summoned another unit 9" to the right, they moved the 4 and charged a unit behind on the objective seizing it.

I basically spent a CP to get 15 hearthguard out of position and kill 2 of them...