Let's chat Stormcast Eternals

[BURF1]

Just now, Requizen said:

Partially agree. I think we will see more balanced SE lists between melee/shooting. There will still be at least one hammer power melee unit per list, but our games won't be decided purely by a massive Paladin or Dracoth hit.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
 

I think it's the other way, I think this pushes stormcast towards more extreme specialization. The melee lists will be basically warrior brotherhoods with more paladins/judicators and less liberators, the shooting lists will be all shooting units except aetherwings, lord relictors and occasionally knight azyros. Stormcasts are too expensive and lack any meaningful synergy to try and make balanced lists. Oh, also gimmick lists out the butt.

[BURF1]

5 hours ago, Turragor said:

All this talk of alpha striking and the limitations - I think the meta of the future will see Stormcast make more use of repositioning (BETA striking?)

At least, I believe they should.

It offers a bunch more creative lists.

We've the potential for a classic bait and switch against less mobile but tough armies and other armies (so far) with comparable repositioning potential aren't as tough as stormcast.

I am really liking the potential and can't wait to see more people abandon the alpha strike playstyle and instead seek new methods of making the golden nipple boys great.

I just think stormcasts are too expensive for this to work, at least while stormfiends are flying 18 inches and thundertusks average a 32" threat range. I don't think stormcasts are suddenly bad I just think they're much less flexible than they used to be. I'm also a bit bitter about how many pages of this book were wasted on junk, like anyone will ever use storm vortex or warrior chamber.

[wayniac]

8 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

I just think stormcasts are too expensive for this to work, at least while stormfiends are flying 18 inches and thundertusks average a 32" threat range. I don't think stormcasts are suddenly bad I just think they're much less flexible than they used to be. I'm also a bit bitter about how many pages of this book were wasted on junk, like anyone will ever use storm vortex or warrior chamber.

You mean how much is wasted on things that won't be used in Matched Play, right?  Because remember, the book has to support 3 styles, not just one.

Anyways, count me in the "You will see balanced lists" camp, except for the highest end of competitive people who will always find something to break, in which case I think abusing those super longbows will be the new Kurnoth Hunter spam (and about as fun to play against, not that most competitive people care one lick about their opponent's fun).  You edited it from your other post, but I was going to ask what a "leafblower" list is, since I've heard the term (in reference to 4th or 5th edition 40k Guard) but it sounds like just a different term for the "gunline" list.

[Turragor]

14 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

I just think stormcasts are too expensive for this to work, at least while stormfiends are flying 18 inches and thundertusks average a 32" threat range. I don't think stormcasts are suddenly bad I just think they're much less flexible than they used to be. I'm also a bit bitter about how many pages of this book were wasted on junk, like anyone will ever use storm vortex or warrior chamber.

I am reaching the point where I don't understand the critique aimed at the changes. Or I would but I hesitate to lump all those complaining into one big group had grown complacent in easy play, easy win, alpha strike lists who don't like change.

That's too simple.

Maybe it's simply my failing; as someone who plays pretty casually but always felt the army was strong and it was me making the mistakes (and I never took WB, played SS one time and lost).

Sure the book has stuff that won't burn up all tourneys with top 3 places going to SC but isn't that all books?

I like the book. I think Stormcast are in a better place than before.

Even if they take some kind of overall performance hit - overall 5% worse than before this new tome - they seem to have more options and more fun.

Edit/

Final thought.

Maybe the specific examples you quote need brought down to the new SCE level instead of raising SCE up to the 4 huskard on Thundertusk with masses of grots, kunning rukk or skryre level?

[Requizen]

Revisiting Hallowed Knights: Lords of the Storm is expensive, but the bonuses are quite good. +1" to charge means you can never fail a 3", and A Martyr's Death (swing before being removed in combat) means a potential turn 1 Hammerstrike will get lots of swings no matter what they charge into. With the right Hero choices and some fiddling I think there might be something there, though you eat 320 in Battalion costs alone.

If you go less for Hammerstrike it might work though.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[Thebiggesthat]

And that's the biggest thing for me, there's alot more stuff to have fun with 

[Turragor]

2 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Revisiting Hallowed Knights: Lords of the Storm is expensive, but the bonuses are quite good. +1" to charge means you can never fail a 3", and A Martyr's Death (swing before being removed in combat) means a potential turn 1 Hammerstrike will get lots of swings no matter what they charge into. With the right Hero choices and some fiddling I think there might be something there, though you eat 320 in Battalion costs alone.

If you go less for Hammerstrike it might work though.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
 

I like the idea of 3 heroes from Lords of the Host bunched up forcing enemy combat retreats. With 6 heroes you can have two nodes doing that. Ofc enemy just needs to snipe 1.

Wonder if that could be worked into a raptor and judicator core force? The enemy has 1 round to melee them before retreating.

[Requizen]

Hm actually might be worth considering using Hammer Prosecutors for Hammerstrike. Range and cheap is nice but having another unit for Alpha Strike melee is powerful. Buff them up with various buffs and chuck them with the Vexillor before bringing in the Paladins, they can be a threat, and 3d6 makes the 9" charge less of an issue. But then buying and completing more bird people makes me want to cry

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[Requizen]

Quick thought of potential list:

Celestial Vindicators

Lord-Aquillor (General)
Lord-Relictor
Lord-Relictor

Vanguard-Hunters
Vanguard-Hunters
Vanguard-Hunters
Vanguard-Hunters

Hammerstrike
Protectors
Protectors
Protectors x10
Javelin Prosecutors

2000/2000

Single drop, only the Relictors and Prosecutors start on the board, or not depending on the opponent. Blades on the Hunters so they can use the rerolls. A bit one-note but possibly quite good just due to deployment shenanigans.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

[Turragor]

Really like Storm Heralds but I think its 1660 points. Even so... I gotta try it out.

[Immersturm]

As I mentioned before, I am a fan of the Aetherwing, but I struggle to complete the list at 2000pts. I am trying to include the Palladors and Hunters, but I always keep asking myself whether Dracoths and Liberators wouldn't be better. And then I ask myself what makes Aetherwing better than traditional Lists to begin with. Lords supplemented with Libs and Juds, throw in Dracoths and possibly Raptors and I believe it might be deadlier than anything you could cook up with Vanguard.

I hope I am wrong, because Vanguard seem pretty fun.

[BURF1]

1 hour ago, Turragor said:

Really like Storm Heralds but I think its 1660 points. Even so... I gotta try it out.

What's funny is that if you keep stormcast allegience with it, you have a relic you can't use. So I would drop stormcast allegiance and bring some 80pt order core, probably dreadspears, and a lord relictor.

That said, the idea of a SURPRISE MUTHAHUBBARD! Stardrake is sooooooo fun I'm absolutely going to try and do it. I think what you do is you focus 100% on offense, give the stardrake legendary fighter and the obstinant blade and then give the lord relictor bless weapons and pheonix stone and start booking him out to where the stardrake ends up. With 5 drops you should be choosing turns about half the time, let them go first, do your palladors 6d6 move drop the stardrake so it can charge something it'll kill in one turn while being able to get a good target for roiling thunderhead, shoot the bejeezus out of everything you can see, send the stardrake in to massacre a medium size unit(NOM NOM TZEENTCH SKYFIRES!) Get the double turn, do it again but with the chocobos as support and either wipe his whole army or...yunno...lose your stardrake and gg.

[BURF1]

8 minutes ago, Immersturm said:

As I mentioned before, I am a fan of the Aetherwing, but I struggle to complete the list at 2000pts. I am trying to include the Palladors and Hunters, but I always keep asking myself whether Dracoths and Liberators wouldn't be better. And then I ask myself what makes Aetherwing better than traditional Lists to begin with. Lords supplemented with Libs and Juds, throw in Dracoths and possibly Raptors and I believe it might be deadlier than anything you could cook up with Vanguard.

I hope I am wrong, because Vanguard seem pretty fun.

Quick question, does fury brand work with star-fated arrow? Because it looks like it should.

[Kytlock]

So I am pretty sure I have settled on a 1k starter list that I want to build up to 2k over the summer. 

Lord Castellant

5x Judicators w/ Skybolt Bows and 1 Prime with Shockbolt Bow

5x Judicators (Same as above)

3x Prosecutors w/ Javelins and 1 Prime with Trident

3x Prosecutors (Same as above)

5x Protectors w/ 2 Starsoul Maces

5x Retributors w/ 2 Starsoul Maces

 

Granted, my list is not with the new Battletome. I started about a week ago, not knowing anything about the game or the upcoming battletome. I currently own a Lord Relictor, Lord Celestant on Dracoth, and 5x Retributors. This was my starter plan. Any advice will surely be appreciated.

[Turragor]

Em is that drawing attention to imagery on the original image? Or are you joking?

They're much more inspired by a kind of pantheonic ancient greek or roman army.

Annnnyyyyywayyyy

1 hour ago, BURF1 said:

What's funny is that if you keep stormcast allegience with it, you have a relic you can't use.

Which relic do you mean? You mean rolling for relics? Surely there's still fine relics in there. Hmm maybe I misunderstand 'relic'.

Oh and the wording for deployment - it reads like everything can be deployed in the winds aetheric but only palladors can bring units out of the winds aetheric. Maybe it means the Palladors can't deploy in the winds aetheric (but can be in the celestial realm).

Regardless if you are out of palladors you can't deploy? Contrast to hammerstrike force.

The deployment is more assured than scions of the storm anyway!

I too want to just put a stardrake in the middle of the enemy lines. I did that (and lost the drake a lot) by flying it there previously and enjoyed it!

[BURF1]

23 minutes ago, Turragor said:

Em is that drawing attention to imagery on the original image? Or are you joking?

They're much more inspired by a kind of pantheonic ancient greek or roman army.

Annnnyyyyywayyyy

Which relic do you mean? You mean rolling for relics? Surely there's still fine relics in there. Hmm maybe I misunderstand 'relic'.

Oh and the wording for deployment - it reads like everything can be deployed in the winds aetheric but only palladors can bring units out of the winds aetheric. Maybe it means the Palladors can't deploy in the winds aetheric (but can be in the celestial realm).

Regardless if you are out of palladors you can't deploy? Contrast to hammerstrike force.

The deployment is more assured than scions of the storm anyway!

I too want to just put a stardrake in the middle of the enemy lines. I did that (and lost the drake a lot) by flying it there previously and enjoyed it!

I mean that you don't have enough points leftover to buy another hero with the suprise stardrake battalion so you get your base relic, and another relic from the battalion but you have nothing to put the other relic on with stormcast allegience.

[Turragor]

21 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

I mean that you don't have enough points leftover to buy another hero with the suprise stardrake battalion so you get your base relic, and another relic from the battalion but you have nothing to put the other relic on with stormcast allegience.

Aha follow you now

[Malakithe]

So Raptors + Aetherwing + Gryph-Hounds = untouchable Raptors that will shred anything stupid enough to get near them

[Fellclaw01]

6 hours ago, Requizen said:

Personally I think people are focusing too much on Alpha Strike lists. I think there is a fair shot of buff/combo armies being a thing now. There are strong buffs and auras, taking Staunch Defender with a LCoD gives you a bubble of Battleshock-proof, +1 save units. Throw in a Castellant to make another unit even more save, give him the Fury Brand Mystic Light.

Check out your unit of 10-15 Paladins with 2+ saves (healing on 5+) that will never run away and have an extra attack each. For extra lolz, throw in a Relictor for Bless Weapons to give them exploding 6s
 

This, thank you

I was def guilt ly of thinking i had to alphastrike becuase i thought that was how i needed to build them to get the most out of thier abilities

yes i was being a big man baby becuase i am struggling to understand this army and i am going to take a deep breath and try something different

 

 

[Grailstorm]

On 16/02/2017 at 11:24 PM, Siegfried VII said:

The Scions of the Storm seems worse and worse by the minute...

Not really - you don't have to put them up there. It's just an added advantage if you want it. MUCH better than the generic order ability.

[Siegfried VII]

1 minute ago, Grailstorm said:

 MUCH better than the generic order ability.

Anything is better than the generic order ability...

[Thebiggesthat]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

So Raptors + Aetherwing + Gryph-Hounds = untouchable Raptors that will shred anything stupid enough to get near them

With a priest blessing weapons or divine lighting targets.

What I'm seeing is a lot of ways to shred big units and kill monsters.

If you lightning chariot a unit of raptors, do they count as moving for bonuses? It says they may not move, so that's fine, rapid fire time! 

[Grailstorm]

Judicators are in the Vanguard Wing battalion now, and there's a potentially tasty little combo for the previously little-used crossbows. Every 6 to hit is an additional wound roll. You can buff them with a priest to make every 6 to hit also give you another shot. Teleport crossbow judicators with the Vexillor and enjoy 3 shots each, with every 6 giving another shot and another wound roll ?

[Grailstorm]

5 minutes ago, Thebiggesthat said:

With a priest blessing weapons or divine lighting targets.

What I'm seeing is a lot of ways to shred big units and kill monsters.

If you lightning chariot a unit of raptors, do they count as moving for bonuses? It says they may not move, so that's fine, rapid fire time! 

No, the chariot is a set up, so bonuses are good!

[Thebiggesthat]

Nice, so raptors zipping around the board, shredding moonclan