Prediction - Battletome Changes

[calcysimon]

On 3/5/2018 at 11:06 PM, Thebiggesthat said:

Yet still quite competitive. 

Because nurgle has the best battleline, plaguebearers strong as tarpit + kings 21 hp 160 points + marauders 60 points 

In the various spells, artifacts and command traits only 2 each are good, not only more performing, just good

 

Too many nameds, maggot lords underperforming and without battalions to use them. 

Compared to new idoneth named hero with the same cost they have less survability and less damage output (they easily die from 140 points heroes) 

 

Gutrot was good, and it is, but after idoneth new hero buffing charge on the unit he teleport.... You think on much times u teleport with gutrot... U fail the charge... And lose kings and gutrot

 

2 battalions that are usefull (only 1 in the new battletome), others do nothing (and blight cyst for 340 points giving rend to kings only is overpriced since the ranged attack sucks and with the range of the hero using it is of no use) 

 

Charge and run is the only good thing other than new guo, still one of the most strong for battlelines power and variety

[Redmanphill]

Considering my favorite army: Ironjawz, I really wonder what they could do with them in terms of generating more lore and in turn making rules for that. Their entire motivation is simply to fight. That is very basic and essentially has no room for subtlety. They can introduce five clans I suppose and base the. On fighting styles similar to the clans in 40k. That would be okay, I guess one would be faster; one could be tougher; one could be sneaky, etc. it’s still relatively boring and flat as far as narrative goes. The range for that army is too small to really make more options out of. If we extend this out to the other factions in Destruction are we simply going to get some more clans for Spiderfang Grots and the Moon Clan? I feel that the destruction faction needs a massive injection of new models to bring it on par with the others, although Death is suffering too.

i think this highlights the problem with the entire Destruction faction, what are their motivations? Order, Death and Chaos I can understand and get behind. Destruction is simply that... and it’s boring.

[AthlorianStoners]

@Redmanphill I think BCR have potential in regards to expansion. 

I can see a faction obsessed with trying to undo the Everwinter at all costs, another that embraces it spreads the curse everywhere they can. You could have a huskard heavy list that honours Gorkamorka, a controlled storm of religious fury following their God’s abstract whims. Another option could be a band of great hunters, obsessed with tackling the biggest prey, or a ravenous group on the edge of starvation, desperate to feed. 

I think it can be done, just depends how creative GW can get.

[heywoah_twitch]

7 hours ago, calcysimon said:

Because nurgle has the best battleline, plaguebearers strong as tarpit + kings 21 hp 160 points + marauders 60 points 

In the various spells, artifacts and command traits only 2 each are good, not only more performing, just good

Too many nameds, maggot lords underperforming and without battalions to use them. 

Compared to new idoneth named hero with the same cost they have less survability and less damage output (they easily die from 140 points heroes) 

Gutrot was good, and it is, but after idoneth new hero buffing charge on the unit he teleport.... You think on much times u teleport with gutrot... U fail the charge... And lose kings and gutrot

2 battalions that are usefull (only 1 in the new battletome), others do nothing (and blight cyst for 340 points giving rend to kings only is overpriced since the ranged attack sucks and with the range of the hero using it is of no use) 

Charge and run is the only good thing other than new guo, still one of the most strong for battlelines power and variety

So I guess you're only good because you have some great options for: battleline, elite battleline, spells, artefacts, allegiance abilities, battalions, heroes, monsters, command abilities, buffs, and flying cavalry.

As a beastclaw player I can say must be nice. Reading maggotkin of nurgle made me physically depressed that an army book can be so amazing while I have one of the phoned-in early ones giving bad rules to finecast models, stretching basically 2 kits into 7 warscrolls for an army, without even one named hero.

I'd kill for a release as amazing as yours, not to mention one of the strongest armies in the game (and one that smashes idoneth deepkin, which you compare yourself to).

[NurglesFirstChosen]

On 05/05/2018 at 8:21 AM, calcysimon said:

Because nurgle has the best battleline, plaguebearers strong as tarpit + kings 21 hp 160 points + marauders 60 points 

In the various spells, artifacts and command traits only 2 each are good, not only more performing, just good

 

Too many nameds, maggot lords underperforming and without battalions to use them. 

Compared to new idoneth named hero with the same cost they have less survability and less damage output (they easily die from 140 points heroes) 

 

Gutrot was good, and it is, but after idoneth new hero buffing charge on the unit he teleport.... You think on much times u teleport with gutrot... U fail the charge... And lose kings and gutrot

 

2 battalions that are usefull (only 1 in the new battletome), others do nothing (and blight cyst for 340 points giving rend to kings only is overpriced since the ranged attack sucks and with the range of the hero using it is of no use) 

 

Charge and run is the only good thing other than new guo, still one of the most strong for battlelines power and variety

Plaguebearers stick around it’s true ...but hit with puss filled pillows, and the power of the blightkings is too easily negated with a common -1 to hit debuff. 

Our stunted deepstrike of being limited to first turn and the ridiculous pts cost of the battalions mean there’s very few options for nurgle players. I’d like a majour reduction to the cyst battalions at the very least. A cheaper blight cyst for example would make up for the fact that blightkings are so easily neutered. 

 

[Burf]

On 4/30/2018 at 6:15 AM, Thebiggesthat said:

I'm not sure what you meant by the monopoly comment, can you clarify?

I'm not criticising the battalions at all really. My criticism is with the general creep in complexity and rules designed in isolation at the expense of being consistent. Take Stormcast as the example. You  have 4 or 5 intra-faction abilities that offer bonuses for essentially painting your models a certain way. Why make those free for factions, when they aren't for older books.  Why make a point of saying that armies dropping for free 9 inches away is not good for the game, then giving other armies a chance to do it for free. Why make an army complicated rules-wise in a battletome, as new players just starting have no visibility of how something plays?

 

It's all 'ooh these rules are cool, and the rules fit perfectly #pleasantforplastic' from the voices out there, but Jonny Newplayer picks up his favourite army and boom, the first game he is against an army with some army-wide special rules, special rules on top of those, some special scenery, and some special rules for painting things. Oh, and multiple abilities that do the same thing but some worded 'wholly within'  and others worded 'within'. 

 

It's design in isolation and playtesting by yesmen. 

Personally, Johnny newplayer can start with checkers if he's having such a hard time catching up. The new battletomes are a clear step up over the older ones largely BECAUSE of their increased complexity.

The Stormcast battletome, for example, is terrible not just because it's lopsided with options costed into being nonsensical, but also because it's so damn dull. The army runs in a straight line forward with rerollable 2+s and prays you don't have enough mortal wounds. There's almost no actual gameplay to them, especially since they've nerfed basically every battalion at this point.

Fixing the Stormcast vs Newer books differential would be to make Stormcast more like the newer books, not the other way around.

[calcysimon]

18 hours ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

Plaguebearers stick around it’s true ...but hit with puss filled pillows, and the power of the blightkings is too easily negated with a common -1 to hit debuff. 

Our stunted deepstrike of being limited to first turn and the ridiculous pts cost of the battalions mean there’s very few options for nurgle players. I’d like a majour reduction to the cyst battalions at the very least. A cheaper blight cyst for example would make up for the fact that blightkings are so easily nurtured.

 

I hope in it too, and maybe some costs reduction for beast of nurgle and pusgoyles

[ledha]

Even with a -1 to hit, blightking in a blight cyst (Rend-1 + ignore cover is hilarious) have the same  or BETTER hitting power than a ironjaw brute, a  stormcast paladin (without starsoul mace) or a skullreaper... while being cheaper (160 pts) and more resilient with 21 wounds and 4+ save. It's silly, even more when you take account everything else they can have (the run+charge, the +1 to wound with the wheel, or blade of putrefactions, etc...) . And most of the -1 to hit are from spells and prayer, and nurgle is not shy in sniping or dispelling options.

 

Honestly, nurgle is far from limited in options. We see lot of nurgle list well placed in lot of recent tournament, with great unit variety, wether it's mortal, deamons, mixed, with battalion, without battalion...

[chord]

21 hours ago, ledha said:

Honestly, nurgle is far from limited in options. We see lot of nurgle list well placed in lot of recent tournament, with great unit variety, wether it's mortal, deamons, mixed, with battalion, without battalion...

Agreed Nurgle is now one of the strongest armies.   Our local meta has very very good nurgle players.