Death grand alliance.

[Dracothjay]

So, I play FEC as my main army, but I want to start getting into death GA as I love all models and would like to create lists using multiple units, not just focus on a subfaction.

for those who play Death GA, how are your fairing in terms of game results and what are the lists consisting of?

i do own A lot of death models and look to field 40 skeletons and a Wight king in almost every list as it's fantastic at objective camping!

[Thanatos Ares]

I have a very good win/loss ratio with my GA:Death list. And I play at South London Legion against @Nico and other #onlythefilthful opponents 

my list is:

 

 

 

Its not a very very subtle list I admit but it does the job more effectively than it would seem too on paper. What list ideas do you have?

[Dracothjay]

That's a nasty list! Monsters make people tremble, but three!? Nasty mate!

well, I'm thinking of using nighthaunt, deathrattle, deathlords and some soulblight to make a collective list. 

Over 1.5k I'm always going to use a VLoZD as general, around 1 - 1.5k I'll either use a Wight king or maybe a VL as general. I'm just wondering what are deaths grand alliance best units?

i have morghast archai in a 1k list! Nasty boys!

[xspire]

1 hour ago, Dracothjay said:

That's a nasty list! Monsters make people tremble, but three!? Nasty mate!

well, I'm thinking of using nighthaunt, deathrattle, deathlords and some soulblight to make a collective list. 

Over 1.5k I'm always going to use a VLoZD as general, around 1 - 1.5k I'll either use a Wight king or maybe a VL as general. I'm just wondering what are deaths grand alliance best units?

i have morghast archai in a 1k list! Nasty boys!

There are actually lots of really good units, you just have to make sure you're putting together a list where the units work together. For example Thanatos' list above, everything is really fast but he also has 4 behemoths jumping right in your face, which is a synergy in itself because people either try and focus down 1, and then get smashed by the other 3, or they try and target 2-3 and take them down gradually but they have to then survive the next 1-2 turns.

E.g if you're aiming for a 2k point list, you said you want a VloZD and 40 Skeles with a WK, so you need to use the rest of your points to tie those 2 ideas together because 1 is  a huge target which moves twice as fast as the other, do you want an army of huge threats and to keep the skeles back to sit on objectives? Do you want multiple blocks of skeles to march forward and force your opponent to react and you have things like the VLoZD waiting on the flanks/holding back a few turns and then charging in after your opponent has tried to deal with the skeles?

It's tough to fit lots of different toys in unless you skimp on battlelines. I've never been able to come up with a mixed list I'm happy with because I always start by brainstorming a list of all the cool things I would want to put in and then can never seem to get the points to work out at 2000, and generally nobody plays bigger games than that where I live.

[Thanatos Ares]

As @xspire points out above you need to find synergys that overlap. 

Wight King with Infernal Standard for example synergises with you're block of Skeles but not BloodKnights ....

if you're going hordes of shambling dead things then a fast counter punch unit is a solid idea. But it's easy to be overly reliant one them... 

my list as an example.. yes the monsters are a synergy in themselves being fast and hitty but when you look closely the VLoZD gives rerolls to hit to a single unit

thr GKoZD projects a reroll to wound bubble (for FEC only)

suddenly that fast flying mob of scary monsters are (between them) refilling hits and wounds.

which makes them ALOT scarier.

its crucial to find a play style you like, a 'power Level' you're aiming for, and over lapping synergies so your list isn't overly reliant on one key unit.

hope this rambling wall of text is helpful! ?

[WillofNagash]

I personally feel this is the best part of death. FEC, Soulblight and Nighthaunt are nice as far as theme go but without the model range to back them up you end up with a lot of the same models. Nighthaunt is just spirit host, if your rich enough you can play a lot of blood nights in soulblight, and if you want the most boring thing to paint then you can go FEC. I think death has a good chance of being competitive, as long as it’s played to its strengths. Summoning... bring that Swiss Army knife to the table and drop those skeletons or zombies where they are needed, put the spirit hosts in someone’s way. Enough of my rambling, just saying death grand alliance is the way.

[WoollyMammoth]

@Thanatos Ares
OMG that list is so fun i need to try it. I would have to proxy a Warpfire dragon right now because I only have 2 Terrorgheists and a Zombie Dragon lol. I wonder if you could do a similar list with FEC so you can take the Grim Garland for -2 bravery. Those Tgheist shouts are so amazing with the -2. Also you could take different Dilusions in order to get re-rolls for your beasties in combat, so you are not losing too much without the command ability. The best part is that if you roll a 6 after killing something you can pile in a second time. 

[lastdarkness]

I usualy play Nighthaunt and im working on FEC currently but the best ive done in 2k is with Mannfred Mortarch of Night in with 3 Units of 4 Morghasts.

[Dracothjay]

Well I want a list that can hold objectives, but include some units that can branch out and try and  take enemy territory objectives.

 

[Dracothjay]

My list I've made looks like this based on models I have:

wight king infernal - general

necromancer

cairn wraith

30 skeletons spears

10 skeletons spears 

morghast archai

5 hexwraiths 

so my plan is to hold objectives with skeletons, the bigger block moving to midfield objectives.

i plan on pushing out my hexwraiths, morghast and cairn wraith down a flank to either deny objectives to my opponent or crush the enemy. I've decided to push the cairn wraith up with the two units as he can provide the 6" deathless save.

i am toying with the idea of replacing the hexwraiths for 3 vargheist, but as it stands I plan on sending the hexwraiths into an enemy unit, tying them down then in my next movement phase retreat over the top of the unit (MW Bonb drops of 6+)which then allows my morghast to come in.

im thinking of giving my general the trait which makes him a wizard so I can get mystic shield off on the skellies, which allows my necromancer to cast vanhels dance macabre.

any criticism? 

[Thanatos Ares]

Mystic shield on the hexwraiths makes them way better at tanking non mortal wound dealing troops.

other than that looks solid

[xspire]

8 hours ago, Dracothjay said:

My list I've made looks like this based on models I have:

wight king infernal - general

necromancer

cairn wraith

30 skeletons spears

10 skeletons spears 

morghast archai

5 hexwraiths 

so my plan is to hold objectives with skeletons, the bigger block moving to midfield objectives.

i plan on pushing out my hexwraiths, morghast and cairn wraith down a flank to either deny objectives to my opponent or crush the enemy. I've decided to push the cairn wraith up with the two units as he can provide the 6" deathless save.

i am toying with the idea of replacing the hexwraiths for 3 vargheist, but as it stands I plan on sending the hexwraiths into an enemy unit, tying them down then in my next movement phase retreat over the top of the unit (MW Bonb drops of 6+)which then allows my morghast to come in.

im thinking of giving my general the trait which makes him a wizard so I can get mystic shield off on the skellies, which allows my necromancer to cast vanhels dance macabre.

any criticism? 

That's a nice little starting force - what are you thinking of getting next to expand in the future?

[Dracothjay]

Well, I have a mortis engine, VLoZD, VL on foot, arkhan, neferata, 5 black knights and a huge FEC army which I mainly play so I have quite a bit already.

i would love to push into nighthaunt and try them out. Mournghoul's are so sick! 

1 hour ago, xspire said:

That's a nice little starting force - what are you thinking of getting next to expand in the future?

So what's your criticism on my list anyway mate? Would love to hear your thoughts, be harsh, I can take it!

[xspire]

4 hours ago, Dracothjay said:

Well, I have a mortis engine, VLoZD, VL on foot, arkhan, neferata, 5 black knights and a huge FEC army which I mainly play so I have quite a bit already.

i would love to push into nighthaunt and try them out. Mournghoul's are so sick! 

So what's your criticism on my list anyway mate? Would love to hear your thoughts, be harsh, I can take it!

I like having small flanking forces within your army that can have a separate focus from your main force. I don't dislike any of the units you've chosen I'm just not sure how well they would all work together, mainly because they're all moving at completely different speeds which splits them up somewhat and then also leaves gaps in what you can do with them tactically.

Getting them to be effective seems like it will take a combination of events that isn't going to be regularly occurring in all your games, and if it was my list I would look to put some things together with a bit more synergy. The archai are cool but they have benefits you're not using them for (casting / summoning), and essentially when you have expensive units with abilities you're not taking advantage of I like to think of it as paying for wargear upgrades that you're not going to use. Obviously not every model is going to be 100% points efficient but I think there's better options for you, especially in lower points lists. Personally I prefer harbingers too.

If you want a nighthaunt themed flanking force that can contest objectives or provide an offensive blow I'm probably not the best person to give advice in small army lists because although I watch a lot of nighthaunt games and talk to a lot of nighthaunt players I don't really play them much myself yet. I have a feeling people with more nighthaunt experience would either suggest adding in more heroes with hosts and dropping the archai or throw down a mournghoul for fun. There's plenty of nighthaunt players on this forum to give proper advice. (I know you don't have those models at the moment).

I think in smaller lists doing a 60/40 or 50/50 'theme' split is always fun and can still give you good results, and I know you can't really do that with FEC haha.

[NinjaDetective]

15 hours ago, Dracothjay said:

My list I've made looks like this based on models I have:

wight king infernal - general

necromancer

cairn wraith

30 skeletons spears

10 skeletons spears 

morghast archai

5 hexwraiths 

so my plan is to hold objectives with skeletons, the bigger block moving to midfield objectives.

i plan on pushing out my hexwraiths, morghast and cairn wraith down a flank to either deny objectives to my opponent or crush the enemy. I've decided to push the cairn wraith up with the two units as he can provide the 6" deathless save.

i am toying with the idea of replacing the hexwraiths for 3 vargheist, but as it stands I plan on sending the hexwraiths into an enemy unit, tying them down then in my next movement phase retreat over the top of the unit (MW Bonb drops of 6+)which then allows my morghast to come in.

im thinking of giving my general the trait which makes him a wizard so I can get mystic shield off on the skellies, which allows my necromancer to cast vanhels dance macabre.

any criticism? 

I always prefer to take the 60 points for a wraith as summoning/reinforcement points instead since its only one model and gives a bit more flexibility.

Ive also found 2 units if 20 better that one of 30 and one of 10

[Dracothjay]

Would a unit of 5 black knights and 6 spirit host be a better pick rather than the wraiths and morghast?  That puts my 1k force at 970 pts. 

Also changed the skeletons to 2 units of 20, which the. Makes my Wight king and necromancer less important as 20 skeletons with dance macabre won't be doing much damage.

[xspire]

Short answer: No.

Black Knights are almost redundant at this stage - everything they can do, can be done by other units either for less points or better. I'd rather have more normal skeletons than Black Knights, which could be an idea for you.

Spirit hosts are good.

Personally I would run something like this:

WK

Necromancer

40 Skeletons

20 Skeletons

3 Spirit Hosts

3 Spirit Hosts

1 Banshee (my pick) OR 1 Wraith

OR drop the 40 skeletons down to 30 and run 3 x 3 Spirit Hosts, OR drop the 20 skeletons down to 10 and use the leftover points for 2 x 3 Spirit Hosts and 5 Hexwraiths, OR stick with 2 x 20 Skeletons, then go 3 x 3 Spirit Hosts with a Banshee or Wraith - personally I think more skeletons are going to serve you well in 1000 points but there are some options.

[AverageBoss]

Thinking about trying this out for my next GA list:
 

Allegiance: Death

Leaders
Vampire Lord On Zombie Dragon (440)
- General
- Deathlance & Shield & Chalice
- Trait: Supernatural Horror
- Artefact: Cursed Book
Necromancer (110)
Crypt Ghast Courtier (80)

Battleline
5 x Blood Knights (260)
- Soulblight Battleline
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)
- Nighthaunt Battleline
40 x Crypt Ghouls (360)
6 x Crypt Flayers (320)
- Flesh Eater Courts Battleline (Crypt Infernal Courtier General)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
 

Also using the new Ghost Fleet rules of course, which will give more versatility to the Vampire Lord, Necromancer, Spirit Host, Blood Knights, and Mortis Engine.

[someone2040]

My understanding is that all the models in your main allegiance must have keywords/belong to factions that match the Wraithfleet requirements. Which means only Soulblight, Nighthaunt, Deathrattle and Deathmages.

So you can't have Deadwalkers or Flesh-Eater Courts in there.

That's my understanding of the rules anyway. So even though you're building a generic 'Death' allegiance army, you are still bound by the faction restrictions if you wish to use Wraithfleet.

[xspire]

13 hours ago, someone2040 said:

My understanding is that all the models in your main allegiance must have keywords/belong to factions that match the Wraithfleet requirements. Which means only Soulblight, Nighthaunt, Deathrattle and Deathmages.

So you can't have Deadwalkers or Flesh-Eater Courts in there.

That's my understanding of the rules anyway. So even though you're building a generic 'Death' allegiance army, you are still bound by the faction restrictions if you wish to use Wraithfleet.

Unfortunately, this is correct.

[AverageBoss]

Well, that is unfortunate. I think I will stick with the same list however.

But I will put the vampire on horse (better spell and command ability), and send in the Dragon unridden per the FEC entry.

[xspire]

I've been trying to put a mixed Death list together based on a lot of the mixed order lists that have been cropping up in the tourney scene (hero heavy) - unfortunately hero spam is a lot easier for Order as not only do they have so many more options than other alliances, but they're all very well costed, and bias aside a lot of death choices are overcosted at the moment. That being said, here is what I was thinking of:

Neferata - General - 400

Arkhan - 320

VLoZD - 440

Mourngul - 400

5 Blood Knights - 260

5 Dire Wolves - 60

5 Dire Wolves - 60

5 Dire Wolves - 60

I know this has a lot of obvious problems and can definitely be improved upon. The main issue is that the variants of this list run by other factions (mostly order) fill out their battleline with ranged units to compensate for having the full combat hero load out. The Mourngul could be replaced by 5 Blood Knights and a VL. I've wanted to run the Nef + Mourngul combo for awhile but it never really fits in to any of the lists I try and put together (due to them both being slightly overcosted in GH2017).

I would need some help in hammering this into something decent, although I'm just not sure it's possible to make something fun & competitive like this unless we get some updates. This kind of list really suffers vs ranged and a lot of people are moving towards ranged rather than rushing for combat.

 

 

[AverageBoss]

1 hour ago, xspire said:

I've been trying to put a mixed Death list together based on a lot of the mixed order lists that have been cropping up in the tourney scene (hero heavy) - unfortunately hero spam is a lot easier for Order as not only do they have so many more options than other alliances, but they're all very well costed, and bias aside a lot of death choices are overcosted at the moment. That being said, here is what I was thinking of:

Neferata - General - 400

Arkhan - 320

VLoZD - 440

Mourngul - 400

5 Blood Knights - 260

5 Dire Wolves - 60

5 Dire Wolves - 60

5 Dire Wolves - 60

I know this has a lot of obvious problems and can definitely be improved upon. The main issue is that the variants of this list run by other factions (mostly order) fill out their battleline with ranged units to compensate for having the full combat hero load out. The Mourngul could be replaced by 5 Blood Knights and a VL. I've wanted to run the Nef + Mourngul combo for awhile but it never really fits in to any of the lists I try and put together (due to them both being slightly overcosted in GH2017).

I would need some help in hammering this into something decent, although I'm just not sure it's possible to make something fun & competitive like this unless we get some updates. This kind of list really suffers vs ranged and a lot of people are moving towards ranged rather than rushing for combat.

 

 

Unfortunately, the only range battleline unit GA:Death has is Skeleton Chariots. And they are much more of a melee threat than ranged.

I am thinking about trying a list along the lines of:

Allegiance: Death

Leaders
Neferata Mortarch Of Blood (400)
- General
Necromancer (110)
Vampire Lord (140)
- Mount: Nightmare
- Artefact: Cursed Book

Battleline
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
5 x Dire Wolves (60)
10 x Skeleton Warriors (80)
- Ancient Blade & Shield

2 x Morghast Archai (220)
6 x Crypt Flayers (320)
3 x Spirit Hosts (120)

Behemoths
Mortis Engine (180)
Zombie Dragon (300)

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400

Might turn the skeletons into more wolves though and take Manfred instead of Neferata.

[erasercrumbs]

Oddly enough, I previously had no interest in Death whatsoever, but a few days ago I became aware of an unrelated pewter miniature that very closely resembles a Necrarch vampire. Being a huge fan of Nosferatu, my mind suddenly became abuzz with thoughts of zombies and corpse carts. Once I get my hands on that vampire, I'll probably start a GA Death army that's mostly Deadwalkers, spurred on by a necromancer and, of course, my blood-sucking demon-rabbit of a Necrarch.

Funny how a non-GW miniature is going to wind up forcing me to throw more money at GW.

[AverageBoss]

50 minutes ago, erasercrumbs said:

Oddly enough, I previously had no interest in Death whatsoever, but a few days ago I became aware of an unrelated pewter miniature that very closely resembles a Necrarch vampire. Being a huge fan of Nosferatu, my mind suddenly became abuzz with thoughts of zombies and corpse carts. Once I get my hands on that vampire, I'll probably start a GA Death army that's mostly Deadwalkers, spurred on by a necromancer and, of course, my blood-sucking demon-rabbit of a Necrarch.

Funny how a non-GW miniature is going to wind up forcing me to throw more money at GW.

Actually back in older WFB times, the Vampires of the Vampire Counts armies (which all of what is Grand Alliance Death fell under as their servants), were split up into different bloodlines each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

And there actually was a Necrach bloodline. The models have been oop for at least a decade now, but I believe there was one on foot, on horse, and a named character on a dragon.

Curious to see the 3rd part model though.