Killax Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Steelheart's Champions Like all fantastic Let's Chat topics I believe that Warhammer Underworlds will be great with it's own set of Let's Chat topics aswell. The idea here is really to chat about the Warband, use of characters and offcourse deck construction that will eventually contain all kinds of different cards. The advantage of keeping all these topics in one place allows for players to really browse through a list of ideas and tactics applied by several players. Offcourse painting and modeling discussions will also be part of these kinds of topics. In order to inform the starting player and veteran I decided to put the character cards here and will eventuall break down the cards in the starting deck for Steelheart's Champions aswell. Currently I can't find the complete deck scans of all cards just yet, so please be patient! Warband: Standard deck: ObjectivesCleanse ConquestUpgrades and PloysPeal of Thunder Stormforged Resistance Sidestep Usefull Links:https://warhammerunderworlds.com/liberators/ Feel free to join the excitement for Warhammer Underworlds: Shadespire! Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. White Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 On the modelling end of the conversation....I wish Steelheart came with a helmet to wear. We like all our stormcasts to be helmeted. Keeps the mystique of them being energy beings of Azyr. Sure, I can cut the head and stick a helmet on, but cutting out the helmet under his arm may prove difficult. Also, Steelheart's name reminds me to much of this fella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Mr. White said: On the modelling end of the conversation....I wish Steelheart came with a helmet to wear. We like all our stormcasts to be helmeted. Keeps the mystique of them being energy beings of Azyr. Sure, I can cut the head and stick a helmet on, but cutting out the helmet under his arm may prove difficult. Also, Steelheart's name reminds me to much of this fella A lot of Age of Sigmar reminds me of He-Man, once I accepted that the joy really began! But on the subject of possibly converting, I think it isn't too difficult to do what you perhaps want to! It will thake thinking, greenstuff, precision cutting, a diamond vile and some fine grit sandpaper. On top of that another lower arm with shield would be very welcome to fill in the gap. When we look at the contents we see the following: As seen on 1. (Steelheart's assembly) his arm with helmet allready comes seperate, meaning most of the helmet should be possible to 'clean'. Because it's a seperate piece I don't think the task in itself is impossible or extremely hard to do (it would be if the arm was allready on the body). When we then have a nice close up of the model: I believe that at least enough of the front of the face is left open to remove the hand and lower arm from holding it. Which could lead to: Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. White Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 @Killax - Well done! I've got several spare helmets and shields, so good to go. I may end up using a helmet or shield not matching the other two characters, but...eh...we'll say he's a unique hero! And regarding, He-Man, I agree and wrote a little about it here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zabbraxas Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Article just pop from the community website https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/10/the-warbands-of-shadespire-steelhearts-championsgw-homepage-post-2/ So basic tactics for stormcast, seems to be defensive play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. White Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 @Killax, where'd you get that assembly instruction graphic from? Do they have one for the skeletons out yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share Posted October 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Mr. White said: @Killax, where'd you get that assembly instruction graphic from? Do they have one for the skeletons out yet? From War of Sigmars review. All the assembly videos are up, even Duncan painting the units. Check Warhammer Underworlds website Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banglesprout Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 On 10/10/2017 at 1:31 PM, Mr. White said: On the modelling end of the conversation....I wish Steelheart came with a helmet to wear. We like all our stormcasts to be helmeted. Keeps the mystique of them being energy beings of Azyr. Yeah I agree with this! One possibility would be to paint his head so he looks like an ethereal or ghostly being of energy rather than a flesh and blood human. That'd also fit in with the general Shadespire aesthetic - so I'm thinking I might take that route rather then trying to convert him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. White Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 26 minutes ago, Banglesprout said: Yeah I agree with this! One possibility would be to paint his head so he looks like an ethereal or ghostly being of energy rather than a flesh and blood human. That'd also fit in with the general Shadespire aesthetic - so I'm thinking I might take that route rather then trying to convert him. Also, a very cool idea. Please share if you go through with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel saxcloud Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 gosh, i dont Like too much stormcast, but I like more the sc without helmet, and I'm writing a bg piece to explain that for the band of shadespire I will convert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sete Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Gonna be honest, I will make my own warband out of a box. The defensive aspect of their playstyle is right down my alley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elodin Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I'd say the main reason Stormcast are reactive/defensive in playstyle is because they have a somewhat slower movement (3). It's not terrible (the Sepulchral Guard have 2 before inspire) but it certainly means they can't rush down enemies all over the board, it's easy to get divided and ganged up on if you're not thoughtful on movement. Although most of you probably already know this, make sure you always roll your defense dice even if the opponent whiffs all their attacks. Even against 0 damage attacks, if you roll a Shield or a Critical, you still inspire. Besides that, I actually like Steelheart without the helmet. Though maybe somebody can model a helmet on him while he's still carrying the helmet, so he can have a hat for his hat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 Yeah I think not being out-swarmed is essential for them but what's even more important is to be on the aggressive side of things if the oppertunity allows for it. Especially against Bloodreavers, waiting in defence is probably one of the worst things you can do. Defending will happen regardless because your always 1 model short for that 4th activation but certainly try to make the most out of it before that happens. In addition even flipped you one-hit most of the Bloodreavers. What I hope to figure out the first day I have it is how to utilize the boards who have several places where opponents cannot get to easily. To me these boards seem ideal for Stormcasts because they are fewer and thus have this part not act as an obstacle but 4th blocking model so to say. However in any case the Stormcast from the starterset do seem like a very tactical heavy Warband, where choices are simply put a little harder to make as for Garrek's. Their prime advantage remains the quite likely early flips to Inspired, which is why I think thaking one out and thaking one on the chin is a fair deal as long as you know that only one model can easily reach you. Bogging things down can now be done in three ways and I strongly insist fans of Steelheart to really optimize this tactical advantage for fewer models: 1. Narrow placement, using the most out of basic rules and allowing you to bog down entries: 2. Choose one of the boards who have un-placeable parts, to stay out of reach of a second potential charger. 3. The combination of both, which I think can seriously favout Steelheart's Warband. Hope to recieve the starter soon, I really can't wait to play the life out of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childoffang Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 The issue with a deployment to negate the numbers of the enemy is that you will struggle to get thier pieces if they don't play into your hands. Being the smallest sized warband if the opponent is playing a more objective based game you may run out of time to stop them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor of Calth Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 It's worth noting before you read this post that I haven't actually got around to playing a game, so my current thoughts are based entirely on my first impressions from various youtube replays/batreps, and a vague knowledge of the game mechanics. - One of the Stormcast players greatest strengths, the individual capibilities of each individual fighter, is also one of it's biggest weaknesses. Each Stormcast model lost hinders the capabilities of the warband to greater effect than that seen in other warbands. - In every game I watched where the Stormcast player has lost, the opposing player has managed to pick them one by one. The most common cause of this is actually the Stormcast player themselves committing to a charge, and seperating a fighter from the rest of the group. Rather than committing to charges, the Stormcast player should commit to counter charges. - This allows the Stormcast player to play to their greatest strength, their defensive capactity. Because each individual fighter is very tough from a defensive point of view, the Stormcast player should aim to share wounds between fighters. Each fighter can take alot of individual damage and still not go down for sometime. - By keeping the group relatively close together, the Stormcast player can countercharge with another model in the Stormcast warband when one of it's fighters is attacked in the opposing players preceding activation. The countercharging fighter should be placed in a way that it effectively becomes bait to any other enemy fighter rather than the other already damaged fighter. In some instances, the posistion of the counter charging fighter may mean that the opposing player cannot reach the damaged fighter ,and will have to charge the counter-charged if they should wish to fight with another fighter this turn. This is especially effective against warbands with low movement such as the "S.Guard." This leaves the damaged fighter free to quickly flee, counter charge themselves and even just act as a deterrent to the opposing player attacking again with any of it's fighters this turn. Due to the high attacking power of each individual Stormcast fighter, a player attacking a pair/group of Stormcast fighters together is all but guaranteed to lose a fighter even if they should get lucky in return. - Cards decks should focus around defensive capabilites and maneuverability. Keeping fighters alive, and being able to scurry damaged ones to a place of safety is of paramount.importance. - When placing boards the Stormcast player should aim to create a chokepoint with the two boards can minimising the size of the connection between the two boards. - The Stormcast player should aim to place objectives as close together, and as many in his/her own deployment zone, as possible to compensate for the warband's fighters low movement value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 25 minutes ago, Praetor of Calth said: It's worth noting before you read this post that I haven't actually got around to playing a game, so my current thoughts are based entirely on my first impressions from various youtube replays/batreps, and a vague knowledge of the game mechanics. - One of the Stormcast players greatest strengths, the individual capibilities of each individual fighter, is also one of it's biggest weaknesses. Each Stormcast model lost hinders the capabilities of the warband to greater effect than that seen in other warbands. - In every game I watched where the Stormcast player has lost, the opposing player has managed to pick them one by one. The most common cause of this is actually the Stormcast player themselves committing to a charge, and seperating a fighter from the rest of the group. Rather than committing to charges, the Stormcast player should commit to counter charges. - This allows the Stormcast player to play to their greatest strength, their defensive capactity. Because each individual fighter is very tough from a defensive point of view, the Stormcast player should aim to share wounds between fighters. Each fighter can take alot of individual damage and still not go down for sometime. - By keeping the group relatively close together, the Stormcast player can countercharge with another model in the Stormcast warband when one of it's fighters is attacked in the opposing players preceding activation. The countercharging fighter should be placed in a way that it effectively becomes bait to any other enemy fighter rather than the other already damaged fighter. In some instances, the posistion of the counter charging fighter may mean that the opposing player cannot reach the damaged fighter ,and will have to charge the counter-charged if they should wish to fight with another fighter this turn. This is especially effective against warbands with low movement such as the "S.Guard." This leaves the damaged fighter free to quickly flee, counter charge themselves and even just act as a deterrent to the opposing player attacking again with any of it's fighters this turn. Due to the high attacking power of each individual Stormcast fighter, a player attacking a pair/group of Stormcast fighters together is all but guaranteed to lose a fighter even if they should get lucky in return. - Cards decks should focus around defensive capabilites and maneuverability. Keeping fighters alive, and being able to scurry damaged ones to a place of safety is of paramount.importance. - When placing boards the Stormcast player should aim to create a chokepoint with the two boards can minimising the size of the connection between the two boards. - The Stormcast player should aim to place objectives as close together, and as many in his/her own deployment zone, as possible to compensate for the warband's fighters low movement value. Great thoughts and I share some of them ! What I do want to focus on is that like you Ive seen Stormcast lose more as win more online, however as goes with pretty much every game, the aggressor often has an advantage in the game if the game itself (and tactics) arn't too much explored yet. What is clear to me personally is that Bloodreavers (for example) are very straight forward, aggressive, flip without any requirement of luck and generally have cards that reward Charges. The best move for a 4+ model Warband. In regards to your points: - I completely agree with your initial point. The key for Stormcasts in my eyes is to look for 1vs1 combats. Try to minimize any other risk. - The second point very much plays into this. However I also want to say that I believe that there is a higher learning curve to Stormcast as say Bloodreavers. See the above part for that idea. - I believe in their defense but also believe that the offense still plays out better for them, again what you do have to ensure here is that 1vs1 combats are won and allowed for on the field. The offense of Stormcasts is actually really good however the moment they face multiple Bloodreavers their defence is never going to be enough. - Close together play is indeed a solid plan for Stormcast, the moment you can still make this a 1vs1 combat aspect. Placement is essential and if your closed up but are surrounded the difference is not going to increase much. - In terms of decks for Stormcast I agree. But what I deem even more important for them is movement. Not for offense but defence. Do not get swarmed up. - I completely agree that bottlenecks are the Stormcasts friend, again because it stops swarming up and creates more 1vs1 scenarios. - Objectiveplay in my opinion is relevant but only can become important for Stormcast during turn 3. There is a merid of reasons as to why I say this but the largest reason is that the advantage that remains for them is that opponents arn't capable of killing as much oppossing models as you are. This is a minor advantage of having just 3 models. I believe the 1vs 1 aggressive combats are the key to succes for Stromcasts. There are a couple of reasons for this: A. Waiting is losing tactical options. Your opponent will move faster and deploy spreaded (most are forced to due to boards). B. Offense still is the best defence in Shadespire. 1vs1 combats are created by thaking the iniative not by sitting. C. Let your opponet go first, this way having the last activation choice becomes an easier choice. In addition it gives you more information. Cycling to your cards instead of going into Defence can be a better choice, as we agree, keeping them alive is essential and sometimes this is done by adding Wounds instead of dice. Lastly, losing the first few games with Stormcasts really shouldnt put you off. What is essential for the Stormcast player is to understand Key targets. In almost all games Ive seen so far the Bloodreaver or Sepulchral Guard 'bait' is taken, which leads to the eventual loss of the Stormcast because they set themselves up for a double countercharge. Both Oryn and Severyn are heavy hitters if they thake out key targets the game grows into your favour. Just try to see the turns ahead. Giving your opponent that first move means you can react better. In many cases the Stormcast player can decide this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valenae Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Is this possible to buy one Shadespire for two players and divide it? As I seen there is two copy of each neutral card except two cards. Or each player should own one box even if he don't need bloodreavers (stormcasts)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 You should be able to do that @Valenae however keep in mind that the boards are different and there is a third deck in the starter set specifically designed to be used after some intro games. In other words that bundle of cards isn't really part of any deck in particular. Nontheless, if you are with friends, you should be able to figure out a good split in my opinion Like with most startersets produced by Games Workshop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valenae Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Can you tell me what how many symbols on each of Shade Spire dies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted October 16, 2017 Author Share Posted October 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Valenae said: Can you tell me what how many symbols on each of Shade Spire dies? 1 crit, 2 hammer, 1 swords, 1 one assist, 1 two assist for attack. 1 crit, 2 shield, 1 dodge, 1 one assist, 1 two assist for defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childoffang Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 16 hours ago, Valenae said: Can you tell me what how many symbols on each of Shade Spire dies? Check out the video at the bottom of this page - it's a detailed video guide for how to play. https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/10/06/shadespire-news-from-the-games-workshop-invitational/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elodin Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 The more I play with Steelheart (and Shadespire in general, but especially with Steelheart’s Champions) the more I see Charge as a risky action. Completely removing tactical possibilities from a character for the entire phase (in the event of an early charge) is a big deal. I imagine the more experienced players become, the less charging we’ll see. Dont get me wrong, it still has uses for sure, it’s just the drawback is bigger than I originally thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zabbraxas Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 From my little dozen of game with the liberator, i have try an extremly defensive deck and it doesn't work that well, so far the best way i find to play with them was take brightshield and steelheart against horde band or brightshield and obryn against armored band, send this two in battle for the glory point by kill when the third one do is own buisness taking objective and stuff like that Edit: i got a question on a rules point. In the following situation Brightshield was attack, she block, become inspired, can she use is furious parry reaction for this attack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elodin Posted October 21, 2017 Share Posted October 21, 2017 21 hours ago, zabbraxas said: I got a question on a rules point. In the following situation Brightshield was attack, she block, become inspired, can she use is furious parry reaction for this attack Edit! So I found the answer. Page 13 of the Rulebook says “If a fighter is Inspired as a result of an action, the fighter becomes inspired after that action is complete.” Which would mean that the entirity of the attack action would have to be complete, including the failure, so Brightshield wouldn’t be able to react to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zabbraxas Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 7 hours ago, Elodin said: Edit! So I found the answer. Page 13 of the Rulebook says “If a fighter is Inspired as a result of an action, the fighter becomes inspired after that action is complete.” Which would mean that the entirity of the attack action would have to be complete, including the failure, so Brightshield wouldn’t be able to react to it. Great thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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