Ambushing and Herdstones

[Budda]

Hay guys so I have a question for all my Beastie boys on the forum. In the new GHB all Brayherd units get to Ambush and stay off the field in their first turn, they also get to set up a herdstone within 6" of the general. My question is if my general is off the board at the beginning ambushing do I not get to set up the herdstone? I kinda think I already know the answer but I would love it if someone could come up with a way to do both.

Thanks peeps.

[HobbyHammer]

Correct dude, if your general is in ambush then you cannot set up a herdstone. 

[Killax]

While that was quite easily awnsered I also would like to know how you guys currently handle the Beastlord on Chariot.

With this I mean that I initially was very excited to find out this Allegiance and really wanted to persue a cool General within a chariot but the Warscroll does not have the Brayherd Keyword. Would you guys still allow him to be part of the Brayherd Faction and thus be the General, with all abilities attached? Or would you simple not allow for it?

I completely agree with those that in the case of allowing it would be making a really good General, but like every player the whole intend is to make a really good general. 
I personally don't think the Command Traits and Artefacts added to a Beastlord on Chariot would turn it into a game-breaking piece.

[Dolomedes]

37 minutes ago, Killax said:

While that was quite easily awnsered I also would like to know how you guys currently handle the Beastlord on Chariot.

With this I mean that I initially was very excited to find out this Allegiance and really wanted to persue a cool General within a chariot but the Warscroll does not have the Brayherd Keyword. Would you guys still allow him to be part of the Brayherd Faction and thus be the General, with all abilities attached? Or would you simple not allow for it?

I completely agree with those that in the case of allowing it would be making a really good General, but like every player the whole intend is to make a really good general. 
I personally don't think the Command Traits and Artefacts added to a Beastlord on Chariot would turn it into a game-breaking piece.

Personally I wouldn't allow the Beastlord on Chariot into my force and still keep brayherd allegiance.  The keyword was removed for a reason, we're supposed to move on from Gorthor, even in 8th edition he had been dead for 2000 years

If you want a cool general, look at the dragon ogor shaggoth. 10 wounds, 4up save, can be taken as an ally part of your allegiance and the summon lightning healing ability he has  synergises well with a herdstone/vortex combo.

True you lose a command trait and command ability, but realistically with Brayherd you're going to just be putting inspiring presence on everything anyway. The command traits arn't that great either with Brayherd. You could even summon him in if you want to.

The same applies for a doombull as your general, a bit less survivable than the Shaggoth but still superior to the beastlord, especially in terms of damage output.

*Edit.

I personally havn't play tested this yet, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work well.

[Killax]

Thanks for your reply man! Yeah it just means I will delay this idea for now. I totally hear you in terms of Gorthor, the thing for me isn't him, it's just that I like scenic pieces for my Generals. Something I can't really create for Brayherds within the Brayherds model lines and to me it actually seems like a mistake to have the Lord on Chariot be Beastmen and not Brayherd. The idea of having a Beastlord on a Tuskgor chariot shouldn't be too difficult to imagne in my opinion  

Nontheless there certainly are more fine combos available, it's just not the type of stuff I'm looking for so much. I do really like Boombulls and Cygors as support also but it feels very restrictive to have to choose between the two instead of having them not just be part of Brayherds. Ambushing rules could after all simply only include Gor and Ungor if that's what they where aiming for.

 

[Dolomedes]

3 hours ago, Killax said:

Thanks for your reply man! Yeah it just means I will delay this idea for now. I totally hear you in terms of Gorthor, the thing for me isn't him, it's just that I like scenic pieces for my Generals. Something I can't really create for Brayherds within the Brayherds model lines and to me it actually seems like a mistake to have the Lord on Chariot be Beastmen and not Brayherd. The idea of having a Beastlord on a Tuskgor chariot shouldn't be too difficult to imagne in my opinion  

Nontheless there certainly are more fine combos available, it's just not the type of stuff I'm looking for so much. I do really like Boombulls and Cygors as support also but it feels very restrictive to have to choose between the two instead of having them not just be part of Brayherds. Ambushing rules could after all simply only include Gor and Ungor if that's what they where aiming for.

 

I hear you on the Beastlord on Chariot, it is a bit underwhelming having a lowly Beastlord (who isn't as good as a GBS imo), as your commander, having a kick ass guy charging around on a Tuskgor Chariot scalping heads (or even a RAZORGOR chariot if you want a blast from 8th  ) is far more appealing for army aesthetic. 

I guess it depends on your opponent, it most likely wouldn't fly in a tournament, but if your FLGS doesn't mind you making the chariot Brayherd then go nuts.  For gaming in a GW store, tournament or a pick up game it's probably better to have an alternative ready. My Gorthor at the moment is the unit leader of my 4 tuskgor chariots, he's still smashing heads.

With regards to using a doombull or a shaggoth as a general, I think it opens up some really cool options from Mierce miniatures that fit a brayherd army well. Pics below.

 

A sweet model that could be used instead of the Shaggoth.

Another Shaggoth looking model with a bit of a Jabberslyth twist. Would look sweet on the table when ran with 2 Jabbers (Which is exactly 400 points  )

If you want to go mad doombull, here's a few sweet options that you could undoubtedly use in other Chaos armies.

This guy is probably a bit excessive for a Doombull, but I doubt anyone would object. Maybe use as a bloodthirster. But dam it's a sweet model, and could definitely lead a Beastman army.

 

All are really nice centrepiece models, but you obviously wouldn't be able to take them into a GW event or tournament. The other big downside would be their prices, these guys don't come cheap. Still, the allies has opened up some sweet options for modelling massive Beastman generals.

[HobbyHammer]

5 hours ago, Killax said:

While that was quite easily awnsered I also would like to know how you guys currently handle the Beastlord on Chariot.

With this I mean that I initially was very excited to find out this Allegiance and really wanted to persue a cool General within a chariot but the Warscroll does not have the Brayherd Keyword. Would you guys still allow him to be part of the Brayherd Faction and thus be the General, with all abilities attached? Or would you simple not allow for it?

I completely agree with those that in the case of allowing it would be making a really good General, but like every player the whole intend is to make a really good general. 
I personally don't think the Command Traits and Artefacts added to a Beastlord on Chariot would turn it into a game-breaking piece.

As mentioned, without the Brayherd Keyword, it can't go into a Brayherd allegiance, but... it can still go in a Chaos Allegiance. Or the other option is just do the model as it would look great, and if people have issues with it, just run it as a standard Beastlord. 

[Killax]

2 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

I hear you on the Beastlord on Chariot, it is a bit underwhelming having a lowly Beastlord (who isn't as good as a GBS imo), as your commander, having a kick ass guy charging around on a Tuskgor Chariot scalping heads (or even a RAZORGOR chariot if you want a blast from 8th  ) is far more appealing for army aesthetic. 

I guess it depends on your opponent, it most likely wouldn't fly in a tournament, but if your FLGS doesn't mind you making the chariot Brayherd then go nuts.  For gaming in a GW store, tournament or a pick up game it's probably better to have an alternative ready. My Gorthor at the moment is the unit leader of my 4 tuskgor chariots, he's still smashing heads.

With regards to using a doombull or a shaggoth as a general, I think it opens up some really cool options from Mierce miniatures that fit a brayherd army well. Pics below.

All are really nice centrepiece models, but you obviously wouldn't be able to take them into a GW event or tournament. The other big downside would be their prices, these guys don't come cheap. Still, the allies has opened up some sweet options for modelling massive Beastman generals.

Cheers! Yeah Mierce Miniatures has the best resin monsters in the game for sure. Which is a little bit something I feel Forge World is missing. They do have some wonderful characters there too but you'd reckon that they could do so much more... Ah well, that's just wishing for stuff anyway.

On the model itself, indeed a chariot pulled by Razorgors was the idea, that or using the Slaves to Darkness Chariot model as a base. Avatars of war also has some really cool Beastmen models I'd use for such purposes aswell. 

What I would love to know however is how the Beastlord on Chariot ended up not being a Brayherd. I guess I don't really get how a Beastlord can be Brayherd but the moment he sets foot in a Chariot all that is lost.

2 hours ago, HobbyHammer said:

As mentioned, without the Brayherd Keyword, it can't go into a Brayherd allegiance, but... it can still go in a Chaos Allegiance. Or the other option is just do the model as it would look great, and if people have issues with it, just run it as a standard Beastlord. 

Certainly an option but the more Allegiances are formed the more flavourful the specific allegiances are. To me Chaos Allegiance is vanilla when you could go for any flavour. Not bad but not something I feel covers the narrative experience I want from Brayherds .

As before though, thanks for the feedback!

[Budda]

Thanks guys for the help. I'm just finding it hard to picture how to use the beastie boys now. You have a herdstone but if you are using beastmen right you will be running super fast into your opponents grill turn one leaving it behind . Plus the actual Beastlord is a bit naff as well. I too long for a chariot general. Anyone have any ideas on how to use the herdstone now and its optimal placement?

[Zhorphorus]

13 hours ago, Killax said:

What I would love to know however is how the Beastlord on Chariot ended up not being a Brayherd. I guess I don't really get how a Beastlord can be Brayherd but the moment he sets foot in a Chariot all that is lost.

They're doing it with a lot of stuff they want to phase out into compendium, just look at Wanderers and Wood Elves. 

GW are pushing things into compendium they do not want to support mainstream via keyword

[Kramer]

20 hours ago, Dolomedes said:

you want a cool general, look at the dragon ogor shaggoth. 10 wounds, 4up save, can be taken as an ally part of your allegiance and the summon lightning healing ability he has  synergises well with a herdstone/vortex combo.

Your ally be your general sadly

[cranect]

what are those doombull models above? Who makes them they look great?

[decker_cky]

On 15/09/2017 at 8:38 PM, Budda said:

Thanks guys for the help. I'm just finding it hard to picture how to use the beastie boys now. You have a herdstone but if you are using beastmen right you will be running super fast into your opponents grill turn one leaving it behind . Plus the actual Beastlord is a bit naff as well. I too long for a chariot general. Anyone have any ideas on how to use the herdstone now and its optimal placement?

The game is based on objectives, and deployment zone +6"+3" aura (+models hanging back from the main battleline) is generally enough to be right around one objective (ie, you will have the buffs in any fight for that objective). If you take two beastlords, you could even elect generals after deployment depending on where your opponent left a weak flank.

Depending on terrain, you could also use the herdstone to funnel or limit the approach of your opponent's force at a key chokepoint. 

[decker_cky]

4 hours ago, cranect said:

what are those doombull models above? Who makes them they look great?

Mierce Miniatures. Great sculpts and they've always been well-cast for me.

[nuttyknatty]

6 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

Thanks guys for the help. I'm just finding it hard to picture how to use the beastie boys now. You have a herdstone but if you are using beastmen right you will be running super fast into your opponents grill turn one leaving it behind . Plus the actual Beastlord is a bit naff as well. I too long for a chariot general. Anyone have any ideas on how to use the herdstone now and its optimal placement?

I've been plonking it front and centre, hiding my Great Bray Shaman General behind it, and summoning monsters with abandon!?