Let´s Talk Skyre

[Nikobot]

@Mayple

Stormfiends seem to have a bit of an affect on my opponents. Buffed Shockfists or Warpfire throwers will attract attention  and it messes with plans. I can see how 30 acolytes might do that too. They do give you another melee unit, whether by design or in a pinch, whereas acolytes just do not.

I like your list, only problem is that Chokelung is not a battalion, its an enginecoven and I don't think it can be taken on its own. It needs to be taken as part of the larger Skryre Battalion (100pts) along with at least 1 more enginecoven. Would love to be able to take enginecovens on their own though!

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, Nikobot said:

@Mayple

Stormfiends seem to have a bit of an affect on my opponents. Buffed Shockfists or Warpfire throwers will attract attention  and it messes with plans. I can see how 30 acolytes might do that too. They do give you another melee unit, whether by design or in a pinch, whereas acolytes just do not.

I like your list, only problem is that Chokelung is not a battalion, its an enginecoven and I don't think it can be taken on its own. It needs to be taken as part of the larger Skryre Battalion (100pts) along with at least 1 more enginecoven. Would love to be able to take enginecovens on their own though!

If that's the case (about the battallion) then another gas mortar or a tiny unit of 5x Acolytes will do the trick. I only put the battalion in there for convenience sake

Note that the advantage with my proposed approach, besides the damage, stats, etc, is that you will often out-maneuver your opponent through the sheer number of separate units you show up with. This is largely a playstyle thing, so if that doesn't seem yer thang, then proceed with care

[brimmstorm]

On 12/8/2017 at 2:41 PM, Kugane said:

I personally had a little bit of a gap between the torso and the arm bits, but with some green stuff you can fill that gap easily. Just put plastic glue all over the 'connection' bit and just glue wherever they connect a bit. I personally glue the gun to the left arm last by opening it slightly and putting a tiny drop on the wrist bit.

As for the shields, there are 2 options. I personally went with the stormvermin shields, I use the shield that has the chainmail for the bottom part and I clip off the tip so it looks like its stuck into the ground a little. Then I take 3 other shields, one with a hole at the top to be the middle piece, so it looks like there is a hole in the middle where the 'shield' skaven can peek through, and 2 of the shields with the sides open at the sides. I use some clippers to make the connecting surfaces flat. If you cut carefully with the sprue clipper you should have a good enough result to glue them.

The shield skaven themselves are clanrats. They are the boxed clanrats, not IoB or Spire of Dawn. I tried to create a big shield by glueing more shields to an IOB clanrat's arm, but it just looked messy... Also used the plague monk bodies before, but it just looked too 'converted' if you know what I mean. the quality of the parts didn't match each other at all.

I personally feel the Skaven warstyle is very Japanese-like, and I kind of liked the way they would use tatami (woven bamboo) as a shield. Historical pics aren't mine obviously, but it looked like this:

I was originally planning to make my skaven like this, but I couldn't find enough bits. The bits that are perfect for this kind of set-up are the goblin shields from old warhammer like the pic below:

The shields on the right side their back is completely the 'woven' bamboo look without the pike. I planned to put two of those on top of each other and then add a spare spear or whatever to keep it upstraight. Maybe its an idea for you :). I think even the camouflage the japanese made in front of their shields with the rolls of grain and grass is quite easy to reproduce in warhammer.

Concerning the Gutter runners, I went ahead and bought 80 clanrat bodies on ebay at 1$ each. I picked the most Eshin looking rats (no armour and lots of cloth) and I bought 2 boxes of bloodbowl. After that its just a matter of clipping off hands and arms from bloodbowl characters and clipping away the hand or arm of the clanrats and putting it there. I found that the bloodbowl skaven that holds the ball looks great if you just cut off his 'ball' tail and replace it with a tail from a different skaven in the set. You can position it as if he's using the tail to defend himself easily. Also the bloodbowl sets come with 2 gutter runners each already, which is a plus :). So 2 boxes just editting the ball keeper and gutter runner alone is enough to create 8 gutter runners, and then you have plenty of spare bits to convert a bunch of clanrats. I cut a lot of clanrat tails off and replaced it with bloodbowl tails... but in hindsight that only looks good on a few of them :(, I got like 10 rats that look quite ugly. But I guess thats the life of converting... Lots of stuff will turn out quite bad in the process, and some pieces turn out great.

I was most worried I would mess up the verminlord look, but I think he turned out alright, even though his back is very ugly. I had  lots of spare bits from the Deceiver set, 1 spare warbringer arm, and I got the second one off ebay for like 7$ for all the verminlord options. And I had an unpainted boneripper that I assembled 2 years ago and never painted up because his rules were bad and never seen any use for him. (I bought it for 30$ on discount and took it for the warpfire throwers for my stormfiends) The brazier fists look awesome, but just aren't very good :/.  So it was time to get the clippers out and completely rip the boneripper apart (pun not intended). If you need an extra doom star or w/e btw, I still have it lying around. The 2nd punch dagger was easy to convert, because the thumb sticks out, easy to clip off and just re-glue on the other side of the hand. His index finger looks slightly out of place, but, its hardly noticable the way he's holding the weapon.

Np for the slow replies btw! I hope I covered all.

What models did you use for the rats holding the guns? I would love to make a unit out of plastic kits.

[Kugane]

14 hours ago, brimmstorm said:

What models did you use for the rats holding the guns? I would love to make a unit out of plastic kits.

I bought about a lot of IOB and Spire of Dawn boxes and I use the engineer and packmasters in those kits. I ran out of engineers and tried using 1 of the IOB warlords, but the conversion came out subpar (couldnt make a clean cut at the arms and such), but ah well, at least it adds some variation to the lot. I think the engineer and packmaster from those sets are the best, considering that they are already in a 'shooting' position, it makes it look natural. I think the new shadespire sets will bring more chars like that for conversion work. Especially the clanrat with the spear will be quite nice holding a gun instead

If you go back a few pages you can see my conversions btw.

[Betelgeuse]

On 2017-12-23 at 11:10 AM, Nikobot said:

Take rattleguage configuration and a team of 6-9 jezzails with a character with a vigordust injector close by.

Rattleguage lets you fire in hero phase in addition to normal shooting phase. Vigordust +1 to hit means they do MW on 5+ at range 30"

6x jezzails are doing approx 9.3MW + 6.3 normal wounds at -2 rend per turn
Cost 280pts

You can delete quite a few things like this.
Add in a Chokleung coven and you probably have some scary MW output without relying on the fragility of weapons teams - though having a mortar to launch the "experimental weapon" 22" is nice. Sure the jezzails wont be good against a Stardrake/mirror but arcane bolt/warpstorm/warp lightning/chokelung weapon could work on chipping him down with MWs.

With something like that you can probably do something like

archwarlock 140
warlock 100
warlock 100

battalion 200pts

2x5 acolytes 120pts
3x stormfiends 300pts
1x mortars 60pts

3x stormfiends 300pts
6 jezzails 280pts
1 ratling guns 80pts

40 clanrats 200pts
20 clanrats 120pts

You dont get the alpha, but you get nasty artillery, 2 units of stormfiends, and the clanrats bodies along with your battalion bonuses.

Still a stretch for me I think, but I'm just brainstorming.

I'd prob drop the battalion, lose a warlock and swap those for a verminlord, then maybe lose the ratling and bring more clanrats.

 

The Jezzails are awesome and shooting twice with +1 sounds even better. But to pay with 2d3 MW sounds more expensive then what you get out of it. 

Also how do you manage to run those large units with both a bad save AND bad bravery. A couple of shots into the unit without IP and you loose half the unit. I have a hard time seening how an msu kind of play can't be better...

[Mayple]

2 hours ago, Betelgeuse said:

The Jezzails are awesome and shooting twice with +1 sounds even better. But to pay with 2d3 MW sounds more expensive then what you get out of it. 

Also how do you manage to run those large units with both a bad save AND bad bravery. A couple of shots into the unit without IP and you loose half the unit. I have a hard time seening how an msu kind of play can't be better...

You mean clanrats? You'd be surprised how long they stick around if you pick the right things to fight. Try to avoid charging them into any fight they won't win outright(rather let your opponent charge them while your murdertoys (warpfire throwers, warlocks, acolytes) chill right behind them.  Then you can make use of their retreat+charge rule to reposition them into a more favourable engagement on youe turn. The msu vs full unit really only comes down to whether you can spare the points, as 20 rats for 80 points (when you fill up a 40 rat unit) is incredibly cost effective. 

 

If you were referring to acolytes, they get a -lot- of bravery from their allegiance, and the clanrat screen should keep them well out of any non-range trouble. It is a preference (not counting the discount) of running it blob vs msu, with the benefit of a blob that you usually get ALL of the acolytes in shooting range when something hits their clanrat screen, or they march into an engagement. 

 

If you were refering to jezzails, their notable range puts them well out of danger of anyone ever hitting them hard enough for bravery to be an issue. 

For future reference, referencing which unit your concerns are about makes everything easier

[Nikobot]

You would be surprised what you get out of it. I think its worth it, it really gives them plenty of bite and seriously cuts down your chances of fluffing. If you combine that with 2x shooting phases per turn, well its definitely worth it to me. If you can output close to 30W (mostly MW) from 30" range in 2 turns before the vigordust starts catching up with you, well I don't know what wouldn't be hurting from that.

They also are a good unit to position so they cover multiple objectives due to their large range, and threaten anything hero/monster that lands on them.

 

[Betelgeuse]

19 hours ago, Mayple said:

For future reference, referencing which unit your concerns are about makes everything easier

sry, wrote of my phone on the go so wasn't really sure myself what I meant. Anyway I guaess i'll have to try aand switch the deceiver for hordy rats and a balewind one day. Have anyone tried out allying in 40 plague monks with any success or is it cheap clanrat bodies all the way?

[Mayple]

2 minutes ago, Betelgeuse said:

sry, wrote of my phone on the go so wasn't really sure myself what I meant. Anyway I guaess i'll have to try aand switch the deceiver for hordy rats and a balewind one day. Have anyone tried out allying in 40 plague monks with any success or is it cheap clanrat bodies all the way?

Cheap clanrat bodies all the way I've run a few small units of plague monks to suicide-screen my clanrat meatshields a few times before, but that was a neccesity due to lack of models, and not due to their efficiency. As an unbuffed, standalone unit outside of it's own allegiance, they don't do anything your acolytes (comparable msu price) won't do better (except punching a little bit harder in melee) - clanrats will outperform monks with more staying power and speed (that +2 when you run/retreat is really really good) - and are the superiour choice for tactical maneuvering.

That's just my take on them though

[Betelgeuse]

hmm... with a balewind coupled with jezail/cannon battalion you might you could actually take out several key models with some turn one shooting/magic (balewind pushed cannon in range of targets). 

[Nikobot]

That's not a bad idea!

5" push on the cannon from balewind, double shooting turn from cannon and jezzails (6+ models) via battalion, plus warlock or arch- with arcane bolt + warp lightning

Its a good volley! should do 20-25W in the 1st turn

[Betelgeuse]

Have you seen the list that won the NZ masters? Happy to say that it was an Clan Skryre list. Apparently Gautfyre ain't dead yet.
https://aosshorts.podbean.com/e/masterclass-julien-the-nz-master/

• Arch Warlock (General) with Cunning Creature and Esoteric Warp Resonator
• Warlock Engineer with Vigordust Injector
• Warlock Engineer
• 5 Skryre Acolytes
• 3 Stormfiends with Warpfire Projectors
• 3 Stormfiends with Warpfire Projectors
• Warpgrinder team
• Warpfire Thrower team
• Warp Lightning Cannon
• 10 Plague Monks with Foetid Blades, Bringer of the Word with Plague Scroll, Icon of Pestilenece, Contagion Banner
• 10 Gutter Runners
• Clan Skryre
• Arkhspark Voltik
• Gautfyre Skorch
• 160pts summoning (balewind + hero or furies depending on scenario)

[Mayple]

Those plague monks raised an eyebrow. I wonder what the plan was there

Also curious to know -how- he won with that gautfyre skorch, since it is one risky way to go about it, and I doubt his opponent just let him do his thing. Maybe there's some new tactics to gather here.

[Betelgeuse]

Explains it all in the pod-cast in the link. The summoning pool is  a big factor. The monks made me a bit surprised as well but apparently the pulled their weight.  Very intrigued by the gutter runners though. Rather cheap and could really mess with some opponents lists in the right scenarios.

[Oldmanlee]

Question has anyone had any success running a big unit of acolytes at all? 

[Mayple]

11 hours ago, Oldmanlee said:

Question has anyone had any success running a big unit of acolytes at all? 

Yupp

Clanrat meatshielding is mandatory, but marching the acolytes into an enemy horde (at a safe distance) should see one 40-man enemy unit pop each turn.

They can also eradicate big beefy targets (carnosaur, mawcrusha, etc) in a focused volley, so they're flexible.

Of course, they do nothing if you allow your opponent to blow them up, so play smart, and they should win you every mosh-pit engagement

 

(Note: I'm talking about a max sized acolyte blob in these examples)

[Betelgeuse]

Clanrat meat shield on the other hand is super squishy with both low save and bravery of 4. One hard hit and they all run. I did however try the 10 man plague monks and they are awsome for 70p. If I could I would run several of these tiny suicide groups. 

If you could get the big unit to work that is impressive. Can see the point of a unit like that in tandem with vigourdust injector. But at the same time is do sounds like a lot of point in a super fragile unit that an opponent should be able to avoid rather easy. (We have a rather shooting heavy meta here atm).

On another note. I also tried the Cannon and jezzail (vigourdusted) shooting i hero phase battalion the other day and that was really deadly with an arch-warlock on balewind. Can absolutely recommend trying it out.

[Mayple]

@Betelgeuse that's a valid point regarding throwing acolytes up against a list that is heavy on the shooting. They will struggle in that matchup, simply because you'll probably be unable to protect them as well. Still, the +2 bravery per 10 should make them stick around - and anything that shoots them with enough damage to pop the unit is not using that damage to massacre the equally important stormfiends, weapon teams, arch warlock, warlock engineer, and such, that would also be vulnerable in that matchup.

As for clanrats being squishy, well, yeah, they're squishy, but for a unit who's job is to be sacrificed to receive a charge, to put the opponent in range of the acolytes, their 20/40 wounds will stall an enemy for a surprisingly long time. They'll also do pretty well against single wound elites such as executioners, seraphon eternity guards, stormvermin, etc. Anything that don't BREAK them outright will be massacred in turn by the supporting Acolytes.  Anything that does break them will also be massacred in turn, unless the opponent get the double.

 

The group will -reach- the opponent due to the simple fact that their whole job is to grab objectives. If the opponent avoids them, he gives you free objective points. If he fights them/fortifies the objective, they get to clean it up.

Mind that this is a small cog in a larger machine - and the rest of the list should have plenty of other threats and dangers that can respond to the opponent's moves. I find that a handfull of poison wind mortars do a great job at supporting multiple fronts/dealing with gunlines, while a warpfire thrower marching alongside each front will scare away enemy behemoths and heroes. Your own heroes will further solidify that fear, as they're all capable of dropping a notable amount of mortal wounds. Stormfiends are always a great addition, but I tend to only bring a single unit with shockfists to save points. A packmaster or two makes monsters out of them.

 

I like the cannon/jezzail approach. How many jezzails did you bring?

[GeneralZero]

What are the choice of Battlelines?

Btw, I can't find a box of AoS Acolytes. Where can I get them? 5 of individual miniatures kits at GW? wow 

[Skevin]

Blood bawl skavens with some adeptus mechanicus / warhammer 40k bits ?

[Mayple]

7 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

What are the choice of Battlelines?

Btw, I can't find a box of AoS Acolytes. Where can I get them? 5 of individual miniatures kits at GW? wow 

Gotta work for it Conversions. Plague monks are a great base kit, since all you have to do is add gas globes and a techy backpack - bonus points for replacing the head as well. Outside of AoS - the Acolyte Hybrids of the Genestealer Cults also form a great base to work from. You only get 5 each pack with that approach though, so maybe not the most economical approach. Perhaps the torso of Neophyte Hybrids combined with Plague monk lower body could result in something good, but I haven't tried that particular approach, so don't take my word for it.

[Betelgeuse]

Somerset inspiration... skipped the globes on my acolytes.

 

[Betelgeuse]

hmm.. might have to retry out the big unit of acolytes one day...

Currently i'm working on this. Really unsure about the stormfiends. Playing them with warpfire at the moment but just not just sure if I should go melee or just drop them for something thats better at grabbing objectives. The jezzails are a ton of points but it's what make the battalion battalion + vigourdust worth it. But just recently started playing with them. 

Allegiance: Skaven Skryre
Arch Warlock (140)
Warlock Engineer (100)
Warlock Engineer (100)
3 x Stormfiends (300)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
9 x Warplock Jezzails (420)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
1 x Ratling Gun Weapon Team (80)
10 x Plague Monks (70)
- Foetid Blades
- Allies
10 x Gutter Runners (120)
- Allies
Warp Lightning Cannon (180)
Clan Skryre (100)
Arkhspark Voltik (50)
Rattlegauge Warplock (50)
Balewind Vortex (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 190 / 400
Wounds: 94
 

[Oldmanlee]

Fellow skryre players been playing round with lists for heat 3 of the gt kind of like this list but not 100% sure the stormfiends are all armed with shock gauntlets is a unit of six a bit too much ? 

 

[Mayple]

16 hours ago, Oldmanlee said:

Fellow skryre players been playing round with lists for heat 3 of the gt kind of like this list but not 100% sure the stormfiends are all armed with shock gauntlets is a unit of six a bit too much ? 

 

Yes. 6 stormfiends are definitely too much

-Because- they're going to have a really hard time being able to pile in properly (massive bases) - which will negatively impact their combat performance. Even if the idea of putting six of them together for the packmaster buff seems good on paper (which it does) - it doesn't translate onto the table, because if you only manage to pile in half of your group in combat, you might as well have had a second unbuffed group of stormfiends available to hit.. well, anything. That second group could even have gone with the warpfire projectors, just to even out your pressure a bit since you have a lack of mortal wound output currently (Adding warpfire projectors as a sidedish to your buffed shock gauntlets makes it difficult for your opponent to decide which threat is the biggest. It also makes your mortal wound output a consistent threat, instead of just an occasional bonus) 

Additionally, running them in a unit of 6 is going to make you vulnerable to bravery. With a bravery of 6, your opponent only needs to kill one or two, and you'll be in danger of losing one or two more. This would not be as big of an issue in two groups of 3, since the focus fire would be weaker, and the losses to bravery could never exceed the one to two remaining stormfiends anyway. This gets even more detrimental if your opponent brings anything that gives you a minus to bravery. 

And finally: It would make it incredibly easy for your opponent to choose his target. If he takes out your stormfiends in one big focus-fire salvo, what do you have left that can threaten the board in any way? The two packmasters would also become dead weight if this occured. 


tl;dr: Go for two units of 3,

edit: Oh, and good luck!