Let´s Talk Skyre

[Mayple]

36 minutes ago, Umjammerlama said:

What is better the doomflayer gauntlets or shock gauntlets on stormfiends?

Rule of thumb is: can you buff them? Shock gauntlets. Not? Anything else.

Although if you commit them to a close combat build, you want to buff them, which means shock gauntlets.

Vigordust injector, packmasters, and damned terrain are your sources of +1 to hit. With a +2, you're able to knock a great unclean one off the table on average rolls

[Mayple]

10 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Right. So if attacking a big horde unit with a mortar the dmg would go to 12.

I was thinking a combo of Gascloud + Rattlegauge in some fashion. What wpuld a decent list of that look like?

That is correct. It is why the mortars are such a good addition, since they're the best source of double-damage in Skryre. With the gascloud you also get a big mortal wound output from them as well, which is so great.

Unsure about rattlegauge, but I lack experience with it. Some people load up on a bunch of warplock jezzails, others max out the ratling guns. Personally I think Arkspark is more cost efficient - or a second chokelung, but I'll leave room for others to make an argument on rattlegage before claiming that it is

[Betelgeuse]

40 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Right. So if attacking a big horde unit with a mortar the dmg would go to 12.

I was thinking a combo of Gascloud + Rattlegauge in some fashion. What wpuld a decent list of that look like?

9 or so vigour dusted jezzails shooting in both hero and shooting phase do a ton of dmg. But they are expensive and your list might fall apart if your opponent manages to knock them out early. So any combination of arkhspark and gascloud is almost always good while rattlegauge is a bit of a gamle. 

[Malakithe]

I see both your points. Ark or Rattle could end up being cheaper on points. Not sure which.

As far as the Stormfiends go they can still be equipped however right?

[Nikobot]

6 vigordusted jezzails do great damage at great range. 9 are just a delete button with rattleguage. But they are soft, so you have to protect them.

I don't think anyone has mentioned one of the tastiest uses of warpstone sparks... Maybe I missed it.

shock-fiends.

shock-fiend attacks split into d6 hits on the roll of a 6+

a warpstone spark can be used on a successful attack.

so a shock-fiend can roll a 6 to hit, split into d6, say you roll 3, ave 2 wounds on a 3+ and then 2 damage each.. Say they aren't saved. 4 damage. Use a spark and Double the damage. 8 damage. Ouch.

another way to get usefulness out of them  in the absence of +1 to hit.

 

 

[Nikobot]

@malakithe

yes they can be equipped with any combination of weapons you want.

[Mayple]

3 hours ago, Nikobot said:

6 vigordusted jezzails do great damage at great range. 9 are just a delete button with rattleguage. But they are soft, so you have to protect them.

I don't think anyone has mentioned one of the tastiest uses of warpstone sparks... Maybe I missed it.

shock-fiends.

shock-fiend attacks split into d6 hits on the roll of a 6+

a warpstone spark can be used on a successful attack.

so a shock-fiend can roll a 6 to hit, split into d6, say you roll 3, ave 2 wounds on a 3+ and then 2 damage each.. Say they aren't saved. 4 damage. Use a spark and Double the damage. 8 damage. Ouch.

another way to get usefulness out of them  in the absence of +1 to hit.

 

 

There's been some debate around that, and I'd love to get an absolute verification about whether it works like that or not, since it turns shockfists into actual nukes. Although they're still terrifying without the warptoken interacting like that. 

Basically need a confirmation outside of 'I think it works like that' or 'I don't think it works like that' - I do think it's possible that it works like that, personally.

[Nikobot]

5 hours ago, Mayple said:

There's been some debate around that, and I'd love to get an absolute verification about whether it works like that or not, since it turns shockfists into actual nukes. Although they're still terrifying without the warptoken interacting like that. 

Basically need a confirmation outside of 'I think it works like that' or 'I don't think it works like that' - I do think it's possible that it works like that, personally.

I do agree certainly there should be a clarification about sparks and their potential uses (examples would help) and it could have been worded so as to explain it more and provide more insight into their use. As it stands, I think RAW is pretty clear, hard to argue against it.

My breakdown goes like this...

Excerpt GH17 for use of a warpstone Spark
"or to double the Damage characteristic of a weapon used by a SKRYRE model from your army for one successful attack."

"attack" is a characteristic that if a  successful to-hit roll is made becomes a hit, for which then you roll-to-wound.

The fact that in this case 1 of those attacks turns into several hits is not relevant (or dealt with), those hits then go on to wound, penetrate armour and then do damage.

By use of a Spark the damage characteristic of the weapon used is doubled for 1 successful "attack".

It doesn't say when you need to nominate the use of the Spark, and probably deliberately, as use of a spark prior to inflicting any damage would make them pretty worthless. So you can nominate that after you work out if its of benefit. In which case you would need to track each attack.

Totally agree shockfists are terrifying even without sparks, even a +1 buff makes them horrifying for anything without say a 2+/3+ save, and they probably want re-rolls or extra ward-type save.

+2 is avoid at all costs!! or hit first and make sure nothing lives!

[Nikobot]

6 hours ago, Mayple said:

There's been some debate around that, and I'd love to get an absolute verification about whether it works like that or not, since it turns shockfists into actual nukes. Although they're still terrifying without the warptoken interacting like that. 

Basically need a confirmation outside of 'I think it works like that' or 'I don't think it works like that' - I do think it's possible that it works like that, personally.

Lucky we had that big FAQ drop recently to clear up sooooo many questions!

I wonder how hard they looked for questions...

[Mayple]

13 hours ago, Nikobot said:

Lucky we had that big FAQ drop recently to clear up sooooo many questions!

I wonder how hard they looked for questions...

Did the FAQ include this use of warptokens? I found no mention of it.

It's basically way too powerful for me to comfortably wield it without an actual source (or great number of people) saying that it is so hence why individual interpretation doesn't really work for me in this case. Kudos for doing it though

[Nikobot]

no there wasn't anything in the FAQ. I was being cheeky. I see so many questions on these forums that could be answered but little was addressed ?

It's only 1 attack. Considering what they do buffed... What's another 4-6 wounds? ?

[Kirjava13]

Hey guys, I'd love to be able to use Acolytes but, like everyone else, I'm not paying €10/model. I've been looking at converting my own, using a lot of ideas I've picked up from googling, but my real sticking block is hands for holding the globes. Does anyone have any suggestions for where I can find the right bitz?

[Mayple]

20 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Hey guys, I'd love to be able to use Acolytes but, like everyone else, I'm not paying €10/model. I've been looking at converting my own, using a lot of ideas I've picked up from googling, but my real sticking block is hands for holding the globes. Does anyone have any suggestions for where I can find the right bitz?

Plague monks are super fitting as base bodies Ghouls have very skaven-esque bodyparts, and plenty of open hands. 

The blood bowl skaven can also fit, but is more difficult/wonky, and more expensive in terms of number of useful models/parts you get. Great heads though. Perfect for weapon teams as well.

[Mayple]

Had another match today. Very generous on the terrain pieces that straight up sabotaged any chance of winning on my part (spent three turns on getting my stormfiends past a pesky treeline. Never touched the middle of the board) - so not going to focus much on the details, as I can't really consider it much of a match. We also used 2016 matched play scenarios, with the objectives only being capturable by heroes (none of mine wanted to move forward to do that, and was also unable to even consider it due to terrain as I said, poor terrain setup)

Anyhow! For the notes!

- swapped a unit of clanrats for 2x Gutter runners. They couldn't do their job, since they couldn't cap anything, and got shot off the board after trying to assassinate backfield heroes. Will try them again at least they touched any territory past my deployment zone.

- Warpfire throwers aren't needed. Too short range to compete with everything else I have. If I need something deleted, I am more than capable of doing that with everything else, and the warpfire throwers often can't reach the threat in time unless they're already in it's face. Will find suitable replacements. Maybe a Doomwheel can find this open space useful.

- Replacing a unit of clanrats with Gutter runners left me with almost no leftover units. Every loss felt significant. This might have been the feeling due to the objective uselessness of the gutter runners, and their quick demise (didn't matter how long they stayed, they could not impact the battle due to the scenario. Clanrats would have done no better, but would have at least given the illusion of being useful)

In general, I had more luck with the original list - but there was enough elements (terrain, scenario) to create a bias as to what did well and what did not. So I'll go easy on the changes. Warpfire throwers are an easy removal though. Sure enough about that.

The battallion did the job great, just like last time. Deleted every big threat that came into range (the opponent lost 2/3 of his army in two turns, I just couldn't capitalise on the actual objectives. Gascloud chokelung is the best one, safety/damage wise.

 

[Nikobot]

@ Mayple 

- What army were you up against? I dont think you mentioned it...

- I think if you look at the enginecovens, they scale pretty evenly in terms of risk vs reward, arkhspark is the cheapest but also most likely to blow up, Gascloud is more expensive but pretty safe for the damage you do, and rattleguage is probably most expensive, but safe-ish and the damage can scale to wicked levels

Thanks for the write up!

p.s. I used to like you before your comments about warpfire throwers

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, Nikobot said:

@ Mayple 

- What army were you up against? I dont think you mentioned it...

- I think if you look at the enginecovens, they scale pretty evenly in terms of risk vs reward, arkhspark is the cheapest but also most likely to blow up, Gascloud is more expensive but pretty safe for the damage you do, and rattleguage is probably most expensive, but safe-ish and the damage can scale to wicked levels

Thanks for the write up!

p.s. I used to like you before your comments about warpfire throwers

Another Seraphon not the same player, but another Kroak, so got the joy of blasting him out of existence again. There was a carnosaur too (first victim) - other than that just a bazillion skinks and some knights. Two skink priests (also zapped off). He used the shadowstrike battallion, but I bubblewrapped effectively and only lost a unit of clanrats to it. Zapped them in response.

More or less cleared the table of threats. Just couldn't move my own heroes up to cap anything. 

Your analysis of arkspark/chokelung/rattlegage seems accurate. Mind also that rattlegage is the only of the three that will suffer hard against negative hit modifiers such as Nurgle and such. Worth a consideration as we move towards what seems to be a tanky Nurgle/Death state of game

 

I clearly have something against warpfire. I refuse to arm my stormfiends of any, and now removed it entirely from my army. Perhaps some instinct is alerting me to the danger of flamethrowers in close proximity to such vast amounts of FLAMMABLE GAS that my army is dragging around. (Ignoring entirely the LIGHTNING cannons next to them)

[TheWilddog]

3 hours ago, Kirjava13 said:

Hey guys, I'd love to be able to use Acolytes but, like everyone else, I'm not paying €10/model. I've been looking at converting my own, using a lot of ideas I've picked up from googling, but my real sticking block is hands for holding the globes. Does anyone have any suggestions for where I can find the right bitz?

Simple fix is to cut up the Poison Wind Mortar Weapons Teams, they make great Acolytes.

[Nikobot]

Recent Battle Report

Chaos but most of the fun was Skryre - 2000pts
Skreech Verminking
Warlock
Packmaster
3 Stormfiends (1 grinder, 2 shockfist)
10 Globadiers
10 Globadiers
1 Ratling
2 Warpfire throwers
3 Jezzails
40 Clanrats
40 Clanrats
20 Clanrats
10 plague monks

Battle For the pass - I wasn't thrilled about this prospect, as I was hoping to stretch his smaller force, but instead he was going to funnel right up the guts into me. Scenery was no help.

Enemy consisted of Megaboss riding Cabbage (with all the buffs to have an impregnable defense), 10x brutes, 5x brutes and 30x ardboyz, gobbo shaman for mystic shield, and 2x chanters.
The battle was a nice mess in the middle dominated by the cabbage's charge down the flank obliterating 40 clanrats and 3x SFs. The SFs got the charge on him after he destroyed the clanrats through wounds+battleshock, and the jezzails, warpfire, and arcane bolt did 7 wounds but they could only manage 4 wounds with a +1 packmaster buff. He has a 2+ save thanks to mystic, reflected wounds on a 6+ and reduced rend by 1. He was finally taken down by the majority of the armies magic and shooting focusing him down for 2 turns and the 4w contribution from the SFs. Cost waaaaaaaaay too much in pain-points. The saving grace was managing to tie up the ardboyz in combat, that were spread VERY wide (a bit conga-ish), and not allowing them free movement. Had they had gotten free I think it would have been the Ironjawz game. This was thanks to the clanrats and some selective Fleeing and Charging Shenanigans. The skaven magic and shooting was tradesman-like, a few backfires but did their job. Skreech was OK, a presence but no huge impact, apart from being a major distraction. I didnt have enough battleshock protection and that burnt me bad. All the orcs were dead ard and very difficult to remove overall. In the end not much was left standing from either side, but I had edged ahead on points and a recovery was out of reach. Very close and good game.

Take outs 
- Clanrat Fleeing and Charging ability really shone in this game and really saved me by tying up the ardboyz the whole game
- Globadiers were fantastic around the combats, I managed to keep them safe and they really whittled down the Ironjawz units, did most of my damage
- Skreech was a bit average in combat for me, I thought he would do more but he kept missing his rolls and demonstrated that re-rolls are important
- Jezzails range just fantastic, there is always something to shoot when you have 30" range!
- Battleshock hurt me bad, need more protection, I miss my Skaven Battle Standard version #1
- Stormfiends, got the charge I wanted but his general was just so protected and the +1 to-hit wasn't enough this time. Still love them. I thought about tunnelling, but decided against it due to dense deployment.

Chaos allegiance is pretty crappy, didn't land 1 damn unpredictable destruction roll all game or 1 damn crown of command roll all game. I find the mixed Skaven versatile but after playing pure Skryre and Pestilens with allegiance abilities, I think I prefer that style of army to be more interesting builds. I just love being able to use Sparks!
 

 

[Nikobot]

5 hours ago, Mayple said:

Another Seraphon not the same player, but another Kroak, so got the joy of blasting him out of existence again. There was a carnosaur too (first victim) - other than that just a bazillion skinks and some knights. Two skink priests (also zapped off). He used the shadowstrike battallion, but I bubblewrapped effectively and only lost a unit of clanrats to it. Zapped them in response.

More or less cleared the table of threats. Just couldn't move my own heroes up to cap anything. 

Your analysis of arkspark/chokelung/rattlegage seems accurate. Mind also that rattlegage is the only of the three that will suffer hard against negative hit modifiers such as Nurgle and such. Worth a consideration as we move towards what seems to be a tanky Nurgle/Death state of game

 

I clearly have something against warpfire. I refuse to arm my stormfiends of any, and now removed it entirely from my army. Perhaps some instinct is alerting me to the danger of flamethrowers in close proximity to such vast amounts of FLAMMABLE GAS that my army is dragging around. (Ignoring entirely the LIGHTNING cannons next to them)

Its just great hearing about all this blasting... I think I'm going to take your list next time ! and really, well done popping the Kroak, always a pleasure to hear that.

What would you say was your average wound output a turn shooting/magic?

Im certain that the Skryre Occupational Health and Safety Standards have no such restrictions regarding the use of warpfire around poison wind gas. I believe its highly recommended in fact.

 

[michu]

I try to build a 1000 pts Skryre army, not necessarily competitive, but able to win some games.  For now i decided for that:

Allegiance: Skaven Skryre

Leaders
Warlock Engineer (100)
- General
- Trait: Deranged Inventor 
- Artefact: Vigordust Injector 
Warlock Engineer (100)
- Artefact: Esoteric Warp Resonator 
Packmaster (80)
- Shock-Prod
- Allies

Battleline
3 x Stormfiends (300)
- Skryre Battleline
5 x Skryre Acolytes (60)
- Skryre Battleline

Units
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Poisoned Wind Mortar Weapon Team (60)
1 x Warpfire Thrower Weapon Team (70)
20 x Clanrats (120)
- Rusty Spear
- Allies

Battalions
Gascloud Chokelung (50)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Allies: 200 / 200
Wounds: 65
Any thoughts?

[Mayple]

@Nikobot

I've been rolling well, so about 15-17 mortal wounds between the super gas bomb, hero phase lightning, and two warplightning shots. Nothing has backfired on me yet, and I always start with the gas bomb in case of a  1, as that would be a priority reroll. My rule of thumb with my current output is 'I can remove one centerpiece a turn guaranteed with focused fire, everything else is a bonus'

 

@michu a Skryre battalion requires two enginecovens and the Skryre battalion itself. Minimum 200 pts. Other than that it looks alright. Skryre suffers a bit at 1000 pts, since their overwhelming firepower only becomes whelming

[michu]

If i understand correctly, i can't take Engincoven battalions separately, but only in Skryre battalion?

[Nikobot]

@ Michu yes thats right, enginecovens cannot be taken alone, you choose between 2-5 of them once you have taken the Skryre battalion (100pts) and then you pay for each enginecoven you want to add to it. Its really only something that's usable for 2000pts or more.

@Mayple thats a good result to aim, getting rid of 1 centrepiece a turn
how do you use your archwarlock rerolls mostly?

[Mayple]

3 hours ago, Nikobot said:

@ Michu yes thats right, enginecovens cannot be taken alone, you choose between 2-5 of them once you have taken the Skryre battalion (100pts) and then you pay for each enginecoven you want to add to it. Its really only something that's usable for 2000pts or more.

@Mayple thats a good result to aim, getting rid of 1 centrepiece a turn
how do you use your archwarlock rerolls mostly?

I do step by step. Always start with the enginecovens in the hero phase (before spells, most of the time) - at which point I go Chokelung, Arkspark, Magic.

Reserving the reroll for Chokelung, then if not used, reserving it for the 'does my warplightning take damage' roll, then if not used, any of my spellcasters, starting with an overloaded warlock engineer.

I find this to be the safest approach. Needs more examples to truly test it, but I like the safeguard. 

[Betelgeuse]

@Mayple Do you use balewind to push cannon and mortar forward so that they can reach turn one?