Let´s Talk Skyre

[Nikobot]

@ Betel Yeah i agree, that is probably the best use you are going to get out of a doomwheel, I didnt think of that one either. As you say, a squeeze to get it in, hopefully its a lot more scary in the future !

@ Mayple Im really liking clanrats more and more for chaff, their little-talked-about Standard Bearer ability that allows them to retreat and charge in the same turn is just incredible for slowing down the enemy. My last game was against ironjawz, and I was playing mixed Skaven with a decent Skryre contingent and the stars were 3x blocks of 20-40 clanrats that kept retreating and charging to reposition against far superior melee opponents in order to reduce their damage output and tie them up the whole game while the weapons teams and acolytes went to work.

I managed to lock a unit of 30x  Ardboyz in combat the whole game which got me the win, if they got loose for 1 good charge then i was swamped.

So i'm rating them very highly these days, even though with the loss of all the Verminous toys they now hit like marshmallows.

Also, Acolytes were great last game too. Instrumental in chipping away at very Ard-to-kill Brutes and Ardboyz. 2x units of 10 hovering around my lines were quite nasty.

One thing I am enjoying thinking about is with Skaven battletomes nowhere in sight, and getting a feel for recent releases and somewhat power creep, when Skaven get some new toys in the future, its going to be glorious!

[Mayple]

46 minutes ago, Nikobot said:

@ Betel Yeah i agree, that is probably the best use you are going to get out of a doomwheel, I didnt think of that one either. As you say, a squeeze to get it in, hopefully its a lot more scary in the future !

@ Mayple Im really liking clanrats more and more for chaff, their little-talked-about Standard Bearer ability that allows them to retreat and charge in the same turn is just incredible for slowing down the enemy. My last game was against ironjawz, and I was playing mixed Skaven with a decent Skryre contingent and the stars were 3x blocks of 20-40 clanrats that kept retreating and charging to reposition against far superior melee opponents in order to reduce their damage output and tie them up the whole game while the weapons teams and acolytes went to work.

I managed to lock a unit of 30x  Ardboyz in combat the whole game which got me the win, if they got loose for 1 good charge then i was swamped.

So i'm rating them very highly these days, even though with the loss of all the Verminous toys they now hit like marshmallows.

Also, Acolytes were great last game too. Instrumental in chipping away at very Ard-to-kill Brutes and Ardboyz. 2x units of 10 hovering around my lines were quite nasty.

One thing I am enjoying thinking about is with Skaven battletomes nowhere in sight, and getting a feel for recent releases and somewhat power creep, when Skaven get some new toys in the future, its going to be glorious!

It's my favourite part of them that and the drummer ability. +2 move on run/retreat is gold, and I often think of an opportunity to retreat as a 'free' run, as we get the +2 but can still charge.

Your end point mirrors mine. I started off with a Verminus army, which I played for about half a year. Any achievements I made with them was followed with an internal 'Imagine what I could do with a battletome' realisation. They're generally my favoured clan, but I started the swap to Skryre a few months ago. The performance is really night and day. With Verminus it always became a game of 'how long can I outmaneuver you and get objective points before my army is dead? Will the points be enough?' - with Skryre, having a battletome, I can actually kill things

A skaven battletome would solve so many things.

Glad to hear the acolytes doing good work they're best buds with clanrats.

[Betelgeuse]

The only problem with playing clanrats in a skryre list is that they don't get any leadership bonuses. A couple of dead rats and you loose a whole bunch more to bravery and then that's 120p down the drain.  --> reason I usually prefer 70p super cheap plague monks. They die/flee super easy as well but at least they are cheap so I could go for several smaller units.   But it's all up to players preference I guess. 

On a serious side note thought! Try out 10 gutter runners. It's a great ally.

[Nikobot]

@ Mayple I too started mostly Verminus, and got to say, it wasn't ALWAYS a case of hanging on for grim death, the old Verminus could put out some obscene damage which I am sure you know. Supported by weapons teams they could be fearsome.

I don't think I want a SKAVEN battletome, at least not if its dealing with all clans in 1 swoop. I think we'd miss out on new units and expanded model ranges if that was the case (only guessing), I'd love at least Skryre and Pestilens to get their own, each with some new additions.

@ Betel its a valid point, and the monks can deal some value-for-money hurt, I've just had some good engagements of late with the clanrats retreat and its proven very useful. Also with Skryre not having command abilities, Inspiring presence is the only thing to use. 

[Mayple]

@Betelgeuse I tend to treat my clanrats as I would treat Skaven slaves. I don't expect them to do anything except dying in place of my other units. Any wound they inflict is a great victory.

However. Any time my opponent fails to wipe them out to a rat, I have them retreat past them in a hail mary attempt at mucking up his strategy and stealing an otherwise secure objective under his nose. You only need a handful of rats to accomplish this, and no horde unit in the game can match their maneuverability for this purpose. Simply because of the retreat+charge. I don't use plague monks for that role because they're simply too slow for my needs I'm strongly considering gutter runners as an addition to my clanrats though. I love to out-maneuver my opponent, and they could serve me well in that regard.

 

@Nikobot when you say old Verminus, do you mean when we had access to the clawpack? Because I definitely agree with that. It is a great example of what Verminus could be.

Interestingly, in the Spear of Shadows book, Verminus (Rictus) is very prominent, and the grand general (Warpfang) has a group of bodyguards reffered to as 'Deathvermin' - stronger and bigger than even the stormvermin. Fingers crossed for that to be an upcoming unit.

Warpfang is also an all-around badass. Worth a read. Skaven are the main opposing force to the heroes.

 

[Nikobot]

@ mayple yeah the clawpack and special characters to do things like warlord (all get +1 attack) + tretch (potential double damage) + battle standard (immune battleshock). Verminus could tangle in melee with combinations like that. 

Thanks for sharing the fluff from the book, Deathvermin sound great ! bring it on. I might grab a copy, always interested to read about the rats.

[Kisufisu]

Where do people get their poisoned wind mortars? I've only seen the isle of blood ones around. Are they even sold anymore? I Will probably have to just convert up some mortars...

[Mayple]

36 minutes ago, Kisufisu said:

Where do people get their poisoned wind mortars? I've only seen the isle of blood ones around. Are they even sold anymore? I Will probably have to just convert up some mortars...

Converting is the way to go I found the rats from the skavenblight blood bowl team works great as a weapon team/crew. 

[Kisufisu]

1 minute ago, Mayple said:

Converting is the way to go I found the rats from the skavenblight blood bowl team works great as a weapon team/crew. 

Okay, thanks for the info. I thought of buying the blood bowl rats, could use the caped guys as cooler night runners/gutter runners. I was actually kind of hoping someone would say "converting", since I've already been planning on how to make the mortars

[Nikobot]

I have 6 and I bought all mine off ebay.

[Kisufisu]

14 hours ago, Nikobot said:

I have 6 and I bought all mine off ebay.

Yeah, I've been looking at ebay, but paying 10-20 dollars plus the horrific delivery fee to Finland for a single model goes way past the amount I'm willing to pay for something I can convert up myself. Also, I never plan to play in a serious tournament scene, and neither my friends nor my local shop cares if the models are converted or even not-warhammer. And with skryre, I think it's nuts that people would expect my stormfiends to actually have the weapons attached that I want to play them as, I don't have the money to buy 3 boxes of stormfiends just so I can have 3 same weapons

[Mayple]

1 hour ago, Kisufisu said:

Yeah, I've been looking at ebay, but paying 10-20 dollars plus the horrific delivery fee to Finland for a single model goes way past the amount I'm willing to pay for something I can convert up myself. Also, I never plan to play in a serious tournament scene, and neither my friends nor my local shop cares if the models are converted or even not-warhammer. And with skryre, I think it's nuts that people would expect my stormfiends to actually have the weapons attached that I want to play them as, I don't have the money to buy 3 boxes of stormfiends just so I can have 3 same weapons

Conversions are not a problem at tournaments I'll put up a picture on tuesday of my converted (unpainted, recent addition) weapon teams if you want some inspiration

[Kisufisu]

2 minutes ago, Mayple said:

Conversions are not a problem at tournaments I'll put up a picture on tuesday of my converted (unpainted, recent addition) weapon teams if you want some inspiration

I would love to see them, I mean, I like all of your skaven stuff! I Mostly mentioned the conversions because I've seen people online get kind of pissy for people converting up their own stuff, since "you didn't pay the same amount of money as I did, so you're not allowed to play. If you can't afford it, don't play gw games." etc. Heck, those people would never let me play a single one of my clanrats, since I hate the clone models with the same weapons,  all of my clanrats are unique and have some weird weaponry, like warpblades instead of hands, flamethrowers, pistols, crossbows, and weird stuff like that. Though I still use them as basic clan rats with hand weapons or spears, even if most of them look more like random skaven heroes

[Mayple]

4 minutes ago, Kisufisu said:

I would love to see them, I mean, I like all of your skaven stuff! I Mostly mentioned the conversions because I've seen people online get kind of pissy for people converting up their own stuff, since "you didn't pay the same amount of money as I did, so you're not allowed to play. If you can't afford it, don't play gw games." etc. Heck, those people would never let me play a single one of my clanrats, since I hate the clone models with the same weapons,  all of my clanrats are unique and have some weird weaponry, like warpblades instead of hands, flamethrowers, pistols, crossbows, and weird stuff like that. Though I still use them as basic clan rats with hand weapons or spears, even if most of them look more like random skaven heroes

That sounds like a them kind of problem Conversions are what makes the game worth it to me. The prospect of creating characters that look different from the rest (if only by a little) so that they can claim a visual identity that strongly enables the creation of a narrative, is such a great source of motivation. I've had the good fortune to never have met anyone that claimed conversions shouldn't be allowed - but even if I did/when I do, they will have no legs to stand on as GW themselves support converting and kitbashing. 

Modeling for advantage/'this box of cola counts as a dragon' - not counting, of course

People already buy enough stuff cheap off of Ebay for the whole 'I paid more than you' to fall short. If we count in 'time is money' you might actually have paid more than them, so. You do you!

[Kisufisu]

1 minute ago, Mayple said:

That sounds like a them kind of problem Conversions are what makes the game worth it to me. The prospect of creating characters that look different from the rest (if only by a little) so that they can claim a visual identity that strongly enables the creation of a narrative, is such a great source of motivation. I've had the good fortune to never have met anyone that claimed conversions shouldn't be allowed - but even if I did/when I do, they will have no legs to stand on as GW themselves support converting and kitbashing. 

Modeling for advantage/'this box of cola counts as a dragon' - not counting, of course

People already buy enough stuff cheap off of Ebay for the whole 'I paid more than you' to fall short. If we count in 'time is money' you might actually have paid more than them, so. You do you!

Yeah, I never do the cola-dragon thing, since I'm way more interested in converting/painting than actually playing, and I spend a ton of time on simple clan rats for example Guess I'm more of a skirmish guy anyway, since the models I spent much time on are actually visible there and don't drown into masses.

I don't know, GW might have a problem with me using an old spiderman toy as a crypt infernal courtier(though I converted, painted and based it to go with the rest of the army). I've also been wondering how a stormfiend made out of a Warmachine Cryx helljack would look like, would they consider that bad?

I haven't actually encountered "those" kind of people irl in a looong time, but I still grudgingly remember when some people just wouldn't let me play because some of my clanrats had spears and others had swords, and somehow that was "too confusing, go buy another box and assemble them right", even though I made it clear that they would be using spears. Buuut those dudes were the kind of competitive players who never even painted their armies, just wanted to win against kids/newbs and would bicker about everything, like one clanrat having a globe on it's belt. "HOW CAN I TELL IF IT HAS A GLOBE OR NOT?", "clanrats can't be equipped with globes", "EXACTLY, TAKE IT OFF". The logic there was weird to say the least :DD

[Nikobot]

5 hours ago, Kisufisu said:

Yeah, I've been looking at ebay, but paying 10-20 dollars plus the horrific delivery fee to Finland for a single model goes way past the amount I'm willing to pay for something I can convert up myself. Also, I never plan to play in a serious tournament scene, and neither my friends nor my local shop cares if the models are converted or even not-warhammer. And with skryre, I think it's nuts that people would expect my stormfiends to actually have the weapons attached that I want to play them as, I don't have the money to buy 3 boxes of stormfiends just so I can have 3 same weapons

I totally agree with you, its annoying we can't have access to some of the models through normal sales channels and its usually the shipping that kills it. I'm in Australia and everything ends up expensive here. I overpaid for half of mine and half were ok prices as I bought them from Oz. The warpfires i bought were worse, they are more sought after.

Agree with the weapons modelling too, its a tough ask to remodel already expensive models just to use their different weapons.

[Malakithe]

Whats good 2k list looking like these days?

[Mayple]

16 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Whats good 2k list looking like these days?

Gonna have to be more specific what are you looking for? Skryre can go so many ways. Alpha strike, gunline, moshpit. Shooting/mortal wounds. 

Tournament-wise, Gautfyre Skorch still pops up (although I personally believe that it is garbage, and only performs well against people who have no clue, or means, to deal with it) and those lists shouldn't be too hard to find if you jump back two-three pages. 

Anything else is much more up to personal taste, but stacking up on enginecovens is always a good idea.

[Malakithe]

1 hour ago, Mayple said:

Gonna have to be more specific what are you looking for? Skryre can go so many ways. Alpha strike, gunline, moshpit. Shooting/mortal wounds. 

Tournament-wise, Gautfyre Skorch still pops up (although I personally believe that it is garbage, and only performs well against people who have no clue, or means, to deal with it) and those lists shouldn't be too hard to find if you jump back two-three pages. 

Anything else is much more up to personal taste, but stacking up on enginecovens is always a good idea.

Yeah i was thinking Skryre. Double dmg MW from Gascloud looks legit. Looks difficult to run the battalion but still have bodies on the table though 

[Mayple]

5 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Yeah i was thinking Skryre. Double dmg MW from Gascloud looks legit. Looks difficult to run the battalion but still have bodies on the table though 

When you say double dmg MW from gascloud, do you mean running double gascloud, or doubling the damage inflicted with warptokens? Because you can't double mortal wounds with warptokens just in case that was what you reffered to. Good to clear up such a misconception as early as possible. 

Other than that, gascloud is very good, and is the safest source of mortal wound output available to you from an enginecoven. With the reroll from arch-warlock, you should always manage to avoid having it backfire on you I personally pair it with Arkspark, but nothing stops you from doubling up on Gascloud clanrats and gutter runners ( courtesy of @Betelgeuse) make for efficient allies if you want to get more bodies on the field. 

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, Mayple said:

When you say double dmg MW from gascloud, do you mean running double gascloud, or doubling the damage inflicted with warptokens? Because you can't double mortal wounds with warptokens just in case that was what you reffered to. Good to clear up such a misconception as early as possible. 

Other than that, gascloud is very good, and is the safest source of mortal wound output available to you from an enginecoven. With the reroll from arch-warlock, you should always manage to avoid having it backfire on you I personally pair it with Arkspark, but nothing stops you from doubling up on Gascloud clanrats and gutter runners ( courtesy of @Betelgeuse) make for efficient allies if you want to get more bodies on the field. 

Oh you cant? Im guessing that was FAQ'd then?

Hmm maybe it would be better to go without the battalion then but keep Skryre allegiance but ally in some bodies and such

[Betelgeuse]

@malakithe

I'd recommend you to skip the gautfyre and go for any combination of the gascloud, jezzails and cannon engine covens. The battalion is good for more than just the extra mortal wounds. The reroll dice you get with clan skryre battalion can and most likely will save you from tons of sad rolls (power of cannon i hero phase, missed casting attempt, unlucky mystical on jezzails, wind mortar blowing up, etc etc...). If you do go for battalion a good number of objective scoring bodies is the main issue you will be dealing with. But allying in giant rats, plague monks, gutter runners and clan rats will help you with that. Mind thought that these allies don't get any bonuses to bravery due to being more than 10 so don't bet on large groups of them to stick around when things get bloody. Skryre acolytes do get the bravey bonus but can a bit tricky to play with at large numbers...

As stated above the arch-warlock is your best friend in a Skryre list. Either with a balewind in order to cover the (almost) whole battlefield or in tandem with an allied Verminlord Deceiver to hit a vulnerable spot on the enemy lines right from the start. 

Clan Skryre lacks large groups of resilient objective scoring units so whether you go for the battalion or not that will be a struggle and you are left with the two options. 1; Blast away will all the firepower the under empire can possibly give you so that the enemy don't have anything left to contest the objectives with. Or 2; mix up you blasting with large amounts of rats so that when the smoke settles you hopefully have more rats left on the objectives than your opponent has bodies on them.  Personally option 1 feels more Skryre-ish to me but we all do play a bit differently. 

[Betelgeuse]

3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Oh you cant? Im guessing that was FAQ'd then?

Hmm maybe it would be better to go without the battalion then but keep Skryre allegiance but ally in some bodies and such

The tokens only doubles the wound characteristics. The MWs are not wound characteristics. 

[Umjammerlama]

What is better the doomflayer gauntlets or shock gauntlets on stormfiends?

[Malakithe]

5 hours ago, Betelgeuse said:

The tokens only doubles the wound characteristics. The MWs are not wound characteristics. 

Right. So if attacking a big horde unit with a mortar the dmg would go to 12.

I was thinking a combo of Gascloud + Rattlegauge in some fashion. What wpuld a decent list of that look like?