Spado Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Good afternoon everybody I'm new to this forum and to AoS in general. I decided to pick up the DoK and I currently have the book and the warscroll. What shall I buy to make a competitive 1000 list? Thanks in advice, Spado Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Spado said: Good afternoon everybody I'm new to this forum and to AoS in general. I decided to pick up the DoK and I currently have the book and the warscroll. What shall I buy to make a competitive 1000 list? Thanks in advice, Spado I would personally start with the blood coven box, three boxes of witches and a box of khinerai. You could build this list with it: Slaughter queen on cauldron (330) Medusa (140) Hay queen (60) 30 witches (270) 10 sisters of slaughter (120) 5 Heartrenders (80) Total (1000) It depends of course on what units you like aesthetically and tactically. Another approach would be the blood coven box and a bunch of Melusai, which can be used if a Medusa is your general. Theme: blood coven box first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD222 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Finished some painting of my daughters and my gf helped take sweet outdoor pictures! Watch out Johann the unlucky! Good thing his tunic is made from snakebite leather! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDuff Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 Wicked! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olincay Posted May 1, 2018 Share Posted May 1, 2018 11 hours ago, Richelieu said: I would personally start with the blood coven box, three boxes of witches and a box of khinerai. You could build this list with it: Slaughter queen on cauldron (330) Medusa (140) Hay queen (60) 30 witches (270) 10 sisters of slaughter (120) 5 Heartrenders (80) Total (1000) It depends of course on what units you like aesthetically and tactically. Another approach would be the blood coven box and a bunch of Melusai, which can be used if a Medusa is your general. Theme: blood coven box first. IF you can find the blood coven box, gw isn't producing it anymore and i've had zero luck sourcing it anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spado Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 @Richelieu thanks a lot for your input will keep that in mind I still have a question regarding the rules: the fanatical faith rule basically confer the sister a 6++ save. Do you do this special save after the wound or after the damage? The text is pretty clear as it says "roll a dice each time a wound is allocated" but some friends of mine insist that this ability works exately as the feel no pain we use in warhammer 40k where you roll this special additional save after the damage. Who is right? I looked for a FAQ but I didn't find anything related to this topic. Who's right? Cheers, Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatherTurin Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Spado said: @Richelieu thanks a lot for your input will keep that in mind I still have a question regarding the rules: the fanatical faith rule basically confer the sister a 6++ save. Do you do this special save after the wound or after the damage? The text is pretty clear as it says "roll a dice each time a wound is allocated" but some friends of mine insist that this ability works exately as the feel no pain we use in warhammer 40k where you roll this special additional save after the damage. Who is right? I looked for a FAQ but I didn't find anything related to this topic. Who's right? Cheers, Christian Your friends are right. As far as I know, this is how it works. First of all, damage is not a thing that happens, damage is a measure of how many wounds are allocated after a failed save. 1) Roll to hit 2) Roll to wound 3) Roll armor save 4) Allocate wounds equal to the damage value of the weapon used for each failed armor save. 5) all “feel no pain” style rolls occur 6) model suffers wounds or doesn’t. If it worked the way you articulated, then multiple damage weapons could easily kill Morathi in one turn, since you could have 3 succsuful wound rolls deal 9 (or more) damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 So I've played 3 games now with Shadowhammer Compact and it's really difficult to play. I'm 2-1 with wins against Seraphon and Death and a loss against Death. The Seraphon game was over quickly after I blasted my opponent's Slann on turn 1. Both of the death games were attrition affairs. The loss was scorched earth and I made the poor decision to sit on my opponent's objective after taking it rather than burning it. I lost it later that turn along with all my heartrenders and couldn't hold out long enough with my one point advantage. The win against death was battle for the pass. I lost over 400 points of models on turn 1 to a Prince Vhordrai who had the +5" movement spell. Morathi then ate 14 wounds of 2+ rerolling 1 save vampire Lord in a single round of combat and ended up accounting for a total of like 1040 points killed. I was still behind in points when I used the battalion special ability to move my heartrenders 36" in one turn, capturing my opponent's home objective. From there I just rode it out as my opponent had to run back home to stop me from getting another 4 points the next turn. I am convinced that it is not as strong as a pure DoK list. It provides a huge toolkit: strong shooting, MSU, Heavy hitter, spells, enormous mobility, alpha strike potential. But it is spectacularly fragile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 @Richelieu Care to share your army list ? I'm curious and I'd like to test something like this, but I also think that it's won't be as strong as pure DoK lists, there are few problems like quite fragile SCE part that you need to fully use it but I'd love to play it in more casual games. Also you can't take Slaughter Queen on Cauldron which is quite bad (unless you want to go with 2 Slaughter Queens ) I would love some little more shooting in my army but even among allies there is little options, I still think that Blood Stalkers should be batteline with Meudsa or cost like 120 pts but I doubt it will gonna happen. But that's the case with Idoneth Deepkin as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 4 hours ago, DantePQ said: @Richelieu Care to share your army list ? I'm curious and I'd like to test something like this, but I also think that it's won't be as strong as pure DoK lists, there are few problems like quite fragile SCE part that you need to fully use it but I'd love to play it in more casual games. Also you can't take Slaughter Queen on Cauldron which is quite bad (unless you want to go with 2 Slaughter Queens ) I would love some little more shooting in my army but even among allies there is little options, I still think that Blood Stalkers should be batteline with Meudsa or cost like 120 pts but I doubt it will gonna happen. But that's the case with Idoneth Deepkin as well. This is the list I've been playing except with Blood Sigil on the Slaughter Queen. I've also tried it with Slaughter Queen as the general and Hagg Nar temple. Ten judicators shooting twice in one turn is pretty good. Another thing you can do is just buff up a unit of witches and have it charge first turn. It will more than make up for its points. It's not uncommon for that 100 point unit to kill 200-300 points on the charge with enough buffs on it. And then your opponent is spending time killing it instead of moving upfield onto objectives. The hardest thing about playing the list is keeping Stormcast and DoK units paired with each other the whole game to keep getting the battalion ability each turn. And don't forget that the battalion let's you do a normal move and that per the rules FAQ a run is a normal move. This let's you do things like double run then charge with witches or just double run with Heartrenders to make a surprise move onto objectives your opponent thought were safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Another thing I'll mention is that by far the least impressive unit has been Blood Stalkers. Even getting to shoot twice or thrice in a single turn doesn't make them particularly effective. I'm so disappointed in them that I'm thinking about converting the unit into Blood Sisters as I just don't see myself ever using them outside of this list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURF1 Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 4 hours ago, Richelieu said: This is the list I've been playing except with Blood Sigil on the Slaughter Queen. I've also tried it with Slaughter Queen as the general and Hagg Nar temple. Ten judicators shooting twice in one turn is pretty good. Another thing you can do is just buff up a unit of witches and have it charge first turn. It will more than make up for its points. It's not uncommon for that 100 point unit to kill 200-300 points on the charge with enough buffs on it. And then your opponent is spending time killing it instead of moving upfield onto objectives. The hardest thing about playing the list is keeping Stormcast and DoK units paired with each other the whole game to keep getting the battalion ability each turn. And don't forget that the battalion let's you do a normal move and that per the rules FAQ a run is a normal move. This let's you do things like double run then charge with witches or just double run with Heartrenders to make a surprise move onto objectives your opponent thought were safe. I really don't like heartrenders in compact lists, they get very little from that battalion outside of double movement. I also think you're missing out on some pretty massive synergies with khailebron by taking Morathi. There are all sorts of crazy conga-line shenanigans you can do. I would never take Haggnar, the list is too fast for the bubble to keep up. This is my personal take on the list: Allegiance: Daughters Of Khaine - Temple: Khailebron Leaders Slaughter Queen (100) - Artefact: Blood Sigil - Catechism of Murder - Prayer: Blessing of Khaine Hag Queen (60) - Prayer: Sacrament of Blood Hag Queen (60) - Prayer: Covenant of the Iron Heart Bloodwrack Shrine (220) - General - Trait: Mistress of Illusion - Artefact: Shadow Stone - Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor Battleline 30 x Witch Aelves (270) - Pairs of Sacrificial Knives 30 x Witch Aelves (270) - Pairs of Sacrificial Knives 5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1x Grandhammers 5 x Liberators (100) - Warhammer & Shield - 1x Grandhammers Units 20 x Khinerai Lifetakers (280) 5 x Blood Stalkers (160) 5 x Judicators (160) - Skybolt Bows - 1x Shockbolt Bows 3 x Prosecutors with Stormcall Javelins (100) - 1x Stormsurge Tridents 1 x Gryph-Hound (40) Battalions Shadowhammer Compact (80) Total: 2000 / 2000 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 157 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bosmer Nightblade Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 If i run snakes, khinerai and morathi, should i go with medusa on foot, or shrine as general? Noticed scythian saying before that his shrine didn't really do anything apart from be a bigger base to buff from. Is it worth taking, or should i spend the points elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I guess it's worth spending if you make her a general for start she gets 8 more wounds, bigger base to buff from, extra ability for 80 pts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 @BURF1 the list is definitely not optimized. I am playing with it mainly because it only needs 20 witches while I buy, build and paint 50 more of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 I played few times with Cauldron Guard and 20 Lifetakers unit and they were quite bad, don't know how they fare in Shadowhammer compact but from my experience they were big letdown .With Witchbrew and other buffs they could be good-great but usually apart from turn 1 charge they won't be in range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burf Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 9 hours ago, DantePQ said: I played few times with Cauldron Guard and 20 Lifetakers unit and they were quite bad, don't know how they fare in Shadowhammer compact but from my experience they were big letdown .With Witchbrew and other buffs they could be good-great but usually apart from turn 1 charge they won't be in range. The goal in this particular setup is to fully buff the khinerai and send them 28" downfield turn one and hit as many units as you can reasonably take a decent chunck out of. They're a suicide bomb that also acts as a screen for the large units of witch aelves. It's not an unreasonable goal for them to shred out 500ish points of an army that isn't totally immune to battleshock. Most lists aren't really designed to chaff against things this fast that can fly so the khinerai should be able to wrap themselves around in such a way that they can take out glass cannon units or buffing characters with very little difficulty. Imagine hitting a brick of Namarti Thralls before they can get battleshock immunity. You'd get your points back before your opponent had a chance to react. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 On 4/30/2018 at 10:25 PM, Richelieu said: I would personally start with the blood coven box, three boxes of witches and a box of khinerai. You could build this list with it: Slaughter queen on cauldron (330) Medusa (140) Hay queen (60) 30 witches (270) 10 sisters of slaughter (120) 5 Heartrenders (80) Total (1000) It depends of course on what units you like aesthetically and tactically. Another approach would be the blood coven box and a bunch of Melusai, which can be used if a Medusa is your general. Theme: blood coven box first. @SpadoI second that starting list! As it's exactly my list and I've had nothing but fun games with it! (not many granted, but still great fun ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Furuzzolo Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I recently played vs. an odd DoK list. Was fielding my "friendly" Barak-Urbaz endrinriggers heavy KO and found myself against: Hag on cauldron 5x hag queen 5x 30lads units of Witch aelf Was an actual slaughter....i felt like i couldn't do nothing. Witchbrew is brutal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 42 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said: I recently played vs. an odd DoK list. Was fielding my "friendly" Barak-Urbaz endrinriggers heavy KO and found myself against: Hag on cauldron 5x hag queen 5x 30lads units of Witch aelf Was an actual slaughter....i felt like i couldn't do nothing. Witchbrew is brutal... Wow, haha that's horrible. (also moneywise -15 boxes of elves) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Kramer said: Wow, haha that's horrible. (also moneywise -15 boxes of elves) There would be a few horrible matchups for the list. Anything with a 2+ rerollable save would be pretty much immune to it. A gaunt summoner on balewind would shred 1/2 of the witches by the end of the battle by himself. A plaguetouched warband would reflect enough mortals to where the witches might just kill themselves. There are so many bad matchups I could go on and on. So not only is it not a fun list to play against if you're not playing one of its hard counters, but it's also not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Richelieu said: There would be a few horrible matchups for the list. Anything with a 2+ rerollable save would be pretty much immune to it. A gaunt summoner on balewind would shred 1/2 of the witches by the end of the battle by himself. A plaguetouched warband would reflect enough mortals to where the witches might just kill themselves. There are so many bad matchups I could go on and on. So not only is it not a fun list to play against if you're not playing one of its hard counters, but it's also not good. My thoughts excactly, and I would also find it very stale to play. It’s almost Rock Paper Scissors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, Kramer said: My thoughts excactly, and I would also find it very stale to play. It’s almost Rock Paper Scissors Here is a list I've been working on that is spirituality similar to the 5x witches list, but can claim objectives better and doesn't fall flat against heavily armoured targets. I think the avatar of Khaine has been largely overlooked. In a Hagg Nar army from turn 3 onwards it is utterly devastating and standing in range of the cauldron it is a very tough 3+ 5+ 9 wounds. And with so many priests in the list it really is highly unlikely you won't animate them turn 1 and 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Schmidt Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Brand new to the DoK, but I just discovered Catechism of Murder + Blood Sister’s Crystal Touch. That’s pretty hot if it works like I think it does. Get that action by some damned terrain... yum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Schmidt Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 20 minutes ago, Aaron Schmidt said: Get that action by some damned terrain... yum. Nevermind that. Happens before modifiers. Still a cool combo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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