Let's chat: Daughters of Khaine

[PlayerOfGames]

Lots of Info can be found here, including warscrolls!

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2763

What about taking DoK as allies? I was considering some Heartrenders for my Stormcast, but without DoK allegiance they loose their 6++ FnP and with it most of their (already extremely limited) survivability.

Maybe the Shadowhammer Compact deserves another look, although the battalion alone will be very expensive with minimum size units already (somehwere around 1000 points?)...

Overall, from what I know about DoK now, it seems that they really need their allegiance abilities and (very strong!) synergies to shine.

So, vice versa, DoK may not benefit much from taking allies as well (less units to provide buffs or benefit from buffs), especially if you invest 480 points (24% @ 2000 points) in Morathi - making DoK a very self-sufficient faction ...

[Kaleun]

the 6++ wont help you much anyway. If 6 wounds come through your five Heartrenders bite the dust anyway. They are super squishy but are great glascannons. I want some of the m for my Darkling Coven armies.

[BURF1]

1 hour ago, PlayerOfGames said:

Lots of Info can be found here, including warscrolls!

https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2763

What about taking DoK as allies? I was considering some Heartrenders for my Stormcast, but without DoK allegiance they loose their 6++ FnP and with it most of their (already extremely limited) survivability.

Maybe the Shadowhammer Compact deserves another look, although the battalion alone will be very expensive with minimum size units already (somehwere around 1000 points?)...

Overall, from what I know about DoK now, it seems that they really need their allegiance abilities and (very strong!) synergies to shine.

So, vice versa, DoK may not benefit much from taking allies as well (less units to provide buffs or benefit from buffs), especially if you invest 480 points (24% @ 2000 points) in Morathi - making DoK a very self-sufficient faction ...

Shadowhammer compact is actually pretty good, the problem is that it's a DoK battalion so you can take it but it makes Stormcasts the allies and DoK as the primary. Fun sidebar though, because the Liberators in the battalion don't count as allies, they count for your battaline requirement.

[BURF1]

1 hour ago, The Traitor said:

Okay, so I've got 50 witch bodies. Would you guys go for 30 WE & 20 SoS or 20 WE & 30 SoS?

uh...that's honestly gonna depend on the list. I don't really think there's a one size fits all split. 

[BURF1]

2 hours ago, DantePQ said:

@Richelieu Problem with HagNar in that kind of army is that Medusa isn't hard to be blasted away and 5+ FNP works only within 7'' of General. You won't hide Medusa and don't want to have her near combat but to cast spells from afar. With only 6W she would be toasted pretty soon. Putting her on a Shrine helps here as it doubles her W she won't be able to hide but it will be diffult to hide her anyway. And Kheliborn (-1 to hit) protects Medusa better.

Hag Nar works really well with SlaughterQueen as she will survive a lot with right artefacts/prayers. 

One of the only ally considerations I would have would be an allied sorceress for mystic shield in Hagg nar  Slaughdron lists that don't have Morathi. Giving the Cauldrons a 3+5++5+++ would make it devastatingly difficult to wound. Add in the heal D3 prayer from somewhere and you could pretty much guarantee keeping it up all game.

[PlayerOfGames]

11 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

Shadowhammer compact is actually pretty good, the problem is that it's a DoK battalion so you can take it but it makes Stormcasts the allies and DoK as the primary. Fun sidebar though, because the Liberators in the battalion don't count as allies, they count for your battaline requirement.

Yep! But you can take more than minimum sized units (e.g., 10+ Judicators), and since  the battalion-Stormcast are not counted as allies, you can take another 400 points Stormcast as allies (in total 1000+ points Stormcast) ...

[Keldaur]

4 hours ago, GammaMage said:

Well, Matched Play has some scenarios with objectives you capture with a unit of 20+ models. Thus, They now have to hang out at the objective to keep control of it.

1

You don't need 20 models to capture an objective, also many of them don't require you to stay at them once captured. Not sure if you had missed them or we have different definitions of playing "defense".

[Lhw]

4 hours ago, Richelieu said:

I think it looks great but I think kraith is the wrong temple for the list.  HagNar protects your snake investment so much better and improves their offensive capabilities.   I don't think losing the teleport would damage the list too terribly.

Interesting. I think the big worry I'd have would be agaisnt shooting, hence the choice. If someone is more combat focussed, I can feed them Witch Aelves and then hit them with the snakes. I haven't actually seen the official summary of HagNar though, so maybe I'm missing something? I agree with Dantes response, to be honest.

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, BURF1 said:

Shadowhammer compact is actually pretty good, the problem is that it's a DoK battalion so you can take it but it makes Stormcasts the allies and DoK as the primary. Fun sidebar though, because the Liberators in the battalion don't count as allies, they count for your battaline requirement.

I could actually see shadow hammer compact being top tier depending on your meta.  If Morathi is you general you could easily wipe multiple tzeentch wizards off the board before they get to act, or Arkhan or Rotigus.  Can't believe gunline is actually a possibility with DoK.  

[Scythian]

Lolol, great pic!

[Keldaur]

23 minutes ago, Lhw said:

Interesting. I think the big worry I'd have would be agaisnt shooting, hence the choice. If someone is more combat focussed, I can feed them Witch Aelves and then hit them with the snakes. I haven't actually seen the official summary of HagNar though, so maybe I'm missing something? I agree with Dantes response, to be honest.

If shooting is your biggest issue, you have to take into account that rerolling a 5+, is pretty much a 5/9 roll. 

Let's say you get hit by 6 Skyhooks from KO regular companies buffed by a khemist (and you have cauldron, and assume they are damage 1 for simplification) 

-1 to hit ---   4 hits --- 2.66 wounds --- 2.22 failed saves --- 1.85 failed FnP

+1 to FnP --- 6 hits --- 4 wounds --- 3.33 failed saves --- 1.48 failed FnP

For example imagine the same against no rend.

-1 to hit --- 4 hits --- 2.66 wounds --- 1.33 failed saves --- 1.1 failed FnP

+1 to FnP --- 6 hits --- 4 wounds --- 2 failed saves --- 0.88 failed FnP

 

Obviously relying in prayers has an increased cost, so it also depends on how many points you are decided to invest into protecting them to make them way less vulnerable to the combat phase aswell.

[BURF1]

16 minutes ago, Keldaur said:

If shooting is your biggest issue, you have to take into account that rerolling a 5+, is pretty much a 5/9 roll. 

Let's say you get hit by 6 Skyhooks from KO regular companies buffed by a khemist (and you have cauldron, and assume they are damage 1 for simplification) 

-1 to hit ---   4 hits --- 2.66 wounds --- 2.22 failed saves --- 1.85 failed FnP

+1 to FnP --- 6 hits --- 4 wounds --- 3.33 failed saves --- 1.48 failed FnP

For example imagine the same against no rend.

-1 to hit --- 4 hits --- 2.66 wounds --- 1.33 failed saves --- 1.1 failed FnP

+1 to FnP --- 6 hits --- 4 wounds --- 2 failed saves --- 0.88 failed FnP

 

Obviously relying in prayers has an increased cost, so it also depends on how many points you are decided to invest into protecting them to make them way less vulnerable to the combat phase aswell.

Your list is also a consideration. And army with Morathi, A slaughter cauldron and a 20 block of blood sisters is going to get a lot more out of the FNP bonus+reroll than an MSU WE spam.

[Keldaur]

Yeah, i am taking for granted a 20 women block of Blood sisters, but it really depends on the list.

[Lhw]

Those stats are really interesting. Simplify for me? In which situations would -1 be better, when would 5+ be better?

Also, does Hag Narr just give everything in army re rolling hits from T3? Or does it boost the Blood Rite? That could be nice with the Prayer that moves a unit along the table?

[Korazell]

So, as the weekend is rearing it's head I'm looking into some of the things that I want to pre-order and I'm honestly a bit at a loss...which...is honestly refreshing! Since I'm stopgated on my Legion of Nagash list as Dire Wolves have been out of stock for forever and a half, I want to figure out my DOK and I have a few questions. 

1. What is the ruling with the temple cults and Mortathi? Can she not be the General? If she can't, makes me sad, I'd have loved to done The Kraith, used her, took a unit of 10 Heart-renders and then used her ability to redeploy and have them shoot twice.  That would be killer. 

2. Exactly how easy is it to get 30 25 mm bases into combat? Are sisters perhaps better?

3. The combo with Temple nest seems HILARIOUS to me and I'd love to run it. To best use it, you're using the Sorceress as an allied unit with word of pain and the prayer buffs, correct?

4. Does the Avatar of Khaine on the shrine stay on it or does it get up and walk off it if animated?

[BURF1]

Just now, Lhw said:

Those stats are really interesting. Simplify for me? In which situations would -1 be better, when would 5+ be better?

Also, does Hag Narr just give everything in army re rolling hits from T3? Or does it boost the Blood Rite? That could be nice with the Prayer that moves a unit along the table?

Hagg narr boosts the bloodrite so you could get full reroll with the +1 blood right prayer.

-1 is better if you have 2 or less units 330pts or more; 5++ is better if you have 3 units 300 points or more. Usually. Take a second to think about how your list plays to really get an idea. The more spread out you are the better the -1 will be.

[BURF1]

Just now, Korazell said:

So, as the weekend is rearing it's head I'm looking into some of the things that I want to pre-order and I'm honestly a bit at a loss...which...is honestly refreshing! Since I'm stopgated on my Legion of Nagash list as Dire Wolves have been out of stock for forever and a half, I want to figure out my DOK and I have a few questions. 

1. What is the ruling with the temple cults and Mortathi? Can she not be the General? If she can't, makes me sad, I'd have loved to done The Kraith, used her, took a unit of 10 Heart-renders and then used her ability to redeploy and have them shoot twice.  That would be killer. 

2. Exactly how easy is it to get 30 25 mm bases into combat? Are sisters perhaps better?

3. The combo with Temple nest seems HILARIOUS to me and I'd love to run it. To best use it, you're using the Sorceress as an allied unit with word of pain and the prayer buffs, correct?

4. Does the Avatar of Khaine on the shrine stay on it or does it get up and walk off it if animated?

1. we won't get an official ruling for 2 weeks after release. Until then it looks like she can, she just doesn't get the command trait.

2. Some people say hard, some people say easy. Depends on you as a player. And your local meta.

3. Eh, you could, there's good synergy there but keep in mind that you're giving up a prayer+witchbrew for that Sorc.

4. It stays.

[Lhw]

Thanks @BURF1, good to know. Do you need the general to be nearby to boost the FNP roll?

[BURF1]

Just now, Lhw said:

Thanks @BURF1, good to know. Do you need the general to be nearby to boost the FNP roll?

Yes

[Lhw]

That does seem quite limiting. Isn't you whole army at that point going to have to hug the cauldron and the general?

[Korazell]

29 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

1. we won't get an official ruling for 2 weeks after release. Until then it looks like she can, she just doesn't get the command trait.

2. Some people say hard, some people say easy. Depends on you as a player. And your local meta.

3. Eh, you could, there's good synergy there but keep in mind that you're giving up a prayer+witchbrew for that Sorc.

4. It stays.

 1. That makes me sad, that combo won't work with Morathi then as you can't redeploy them...however the turn they come down you can really put the hurt out. I'd say a unit of 10 or so to make the double shooting worth it got 160 points, that sounds reasonable, yes? Even better if you can get it coupled with Slaughter Troupe...just not sure if I'd like it more than the +1fnp if that's being the case....-1 to shoot is better if I'm splitting up my units more, I'd imagine, rather than taking larger blocks, backed up but the solid math being displayed here if I'm reading correctly, yes?

2. Well, I play against Khorne, Ironjawz, And stormcast as well as Nurgle, not sure if that helps. I would imagine with the run and charge I could get them in, maybe not around all one target, but, I could multi-charge just fine I suppose. 

3. Oof, yeah, not sure it's worth that since we can get a three prayer relic for a priest...

4. Both cool and kinda eh. Granted, I don't think a shrine will get there before turn three anyway. 

 

Next question. Avatar of Khaine or a hydra for a monster? I know the Avatar is 180, but, I'm not sure what would be better, really.   Nevermind, figured the math out on that, Hydra is pretty lack luster despite the nice regen effect. 

[DantePQ]

45 minutes ago, Lhw said:

That does seem quite limiting. Isn't you whole army at that point going to have to hug the cauldron and the general?

It's 7“ within General but as I said earlier -  Opponents will just shot down Medusa. Kheliborn bonus of - 1 to hit is army wide forever. Also you can re roll 6+ FnP as well to boost survivability if needed. 

Whats more additional ability to redeploy unit that's near General to be 9" away from enemy is pretty powerful and as you can redeploy any unit it's also very flexible as you can use it differently against different match-ups and in different scenarios. 

[Keldaur]

I would say that the Avatar is also on the 40k lvl of lackluster.

[Hyperion]

Ive got a blood coven box that’s been hanging out on the shelf for a while.  Pre ordered morathi and the book as well.  Should I buy more witch’s or get into blood sisters for battle line?  

Hard for me to wrap my head around all the combos  right now.

I like all of the models.  And competitiveness isn’t a must, but I do like spend money on units that will perform decently.  

Edit: I have about 250$ is to spend.  (For now  ) 

[Korazell]

Now, this is generally my idea. I don't know about anyone else, but, a thing to think about...if you can snag 2 blood coven boxes,  that's 20 witches, and I see ebay selling the Blood throne kit, minus witches, at 63 dollars. Now, if you take the witch elves, and then sell your own kits for 60, that means you got witch elves for 25 -30 bucks, more or less, but I'm not sure who would need these Shrines honestly while we still got blood coven boxes around.