WoollyMammoth Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 She can transform and cast, the only downside is losing +1 to cast. If she loses 3 wounds her damage potential with mindrazor goes to 31 + D6, not exactly losing out on a ton of damage output. "against the majority of armies" is an exaggeration. In oracle form near a bloodshrine in cover she is 2+/6+++ with minus one to hit. Against the majority of armies you can deploy back way too far to be in threat range. In most games there should be enough cover to hide her from your enemy's sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 7 minutes ago, Freejack02 said: How is she going to suffer damage between her own hero phase and combat phase (assuming you activate her first)? Unless you're gambling on Damned terrain... which is funny, because it could mean she's effectively immune to any further damage that turn (although losing 3 wounds would hurt the weapon profiles). You got to have first turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freejack02 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, DantePQ said: You got to have first turn. I didn't realize her High Oracle wounds carried over to Shadow Queen - ok she's not as tough as I previously thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Freejack02 said: I didn't realize her High Oracle wounds carried over to Shadow Queen - ok she's not as tough as I previously thought. Not only carried over... but doubled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freejack02 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Keldaur said: Not only carried over... but doubled. Yeah I'm not sure how my initial reading glazed over that, but she's much less scary than I originally thought. I would say she's fair to put in the 350ish range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I would say it is ok and before we dont know the point cost it is hard to judge. Personally I love the glascannon feeling. There are also a lot of armies out there who wont do 3 wounds to the oracle in the first round. If an army is that potent in shooting this low armored units are a bit in trouble anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Yep I hope she is 300-350 then she could be playable as otherwise - you got to keep her away, if she's away then when in Monster form she will be , well away - against some armies you're toasted - KO, Changehost, etc sure not everyone plays competitive games but that's how I judge her. If her wound allocation isn't FAQed then she will be much better as you won't get to act first (unless you play some kind of battatlion and even then it's 50-50 for example against KO) so you got to (or on 4+ will) transform and then you have two more turn in monster form. Also her ability and spell range is awesome when well deployed, but that deployment won't be usually good for Monster form. - she is unreliable, as you loses CA, her spellcasting ability etc. which is a shame as I would prefer just Oracle version. For 300-350 points you can take and gamble on her as against some armies she will be amazing, at even against Changehsot she will give you at least 3 turn of survival. But anything over 400 is pushing her slowly into unplayable territory. Of course there could be some bodyguard rules in new BT, some battalions, spells, itmes to help her and justify higher cost but for now anything between 300-360 is fair for her. @Kaleun sure I just made my opinions are competitive player so I look how her abilities stack against Top armies that's why I mention point range I think is fair in my opinion. But it's blurred picture without all rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yawn Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Morathi is... unwieldy to say the least. Unless she is priced surprisingly low I can't see her being that competitive a choice. The problem is, if you don't get 1st turn, she's highly unlikely to get any value out of her oracle form, as it's not hard to do 3 wounds to her and force the opposing player to transform her. Not only that, you end up on a mere 6 wounds in monster form. Even if you get 1st turn, I feel the best choice is to immediately transform her, otherwise you could get double turned and killed in oracle form. If only she had 7/13 wounds instead of 6/12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ekrund Oath Splitters Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 I agree with woolly. You can easily get her on a 2+ 6++ 6+++ in oracle form. And she's quite small so you can hide her with proper line blocking. Then due to her double casting range she can easily nuke a target that will threaten her at range. Chuck down an arcane bolt, her own spell and maybe pit of shades and she can easily hurt the biggest of threats from 36" away. Yeah she's not as crazy tough as we first thought, but she is still tough. And the only model in the game to be immune to turn one sniping unless it's nagash archaon or Skarbrand which will never be close enough turn 1 to do it. We don't know if she's in a battalion Aswell! She could pass off wounds to her blood sisters who are described as her body guards. He'll, they might have that rule on there warscroll. We won't know til we get the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Yawn said: Morathi is... unwieldy to say the least. Unless she is priced surprisingly low I can't see her being that competitive a choice. The problem is, if you don't get 1st turn, she's highly unlikely to get any value out of her oracle form, as it's not hard to do 3 wounds to her and force the opposing player to transform her. Not only that, you end up on a mere 6 wounds in monster form. Even if you get 1st turn, I feel the best choice is to immediately transform her, otherwise you could get double turned and killed in oracle form. If only she had 7/13 wounds instead of 6/12. This +1 7/13 would be perfect but it's all about her point cost at 300-360 I would take her in competitve army as for now, if she's more it's too much gamble. I hope she is something like 320. Unless there is a bodyguard unit or some cool battalion mechnic to benefit her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 There is just no way that she is under 450 points, more than likely closer to 600. If you think she is unplayable then don't play her. If you are going against an army which will heavily threaten her first turn, then deploy her as the shadow queen and don't risk the oracle, then no matter what happens she cant die until the end of turn 2, and even if that happens you are doing very poorly. This whole army is about risk and reward. You can't compare everything against changehost, that is silly. If your interest in this army is "will this be the thing to beat changehost" then you are just playing warhammer in a way that you will always be miserable. Even if this is the army to beat changehost, then there are going to be 20 other DoK at every tournament and other people are going to play the army better or get luckier and you aren't going to win the tournament anyway. Even if you win the tournament you get a trophy worth $10 and a pat on the back and then everyone forgets about you a month later when the next tournament comes around. Bottom line? Morathi's rules are F-ing cool and she will be a ton of fun to play. She will do a lot of good work in games and carry her weight if you are doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 @Yawn right! @DantePQ absolutly. Our big lady is all but invincible. It could be however that you only pay some hundredish points for Morathi in her Oracle form though. Wich would make her incredible for lower point games. The snakeform might simply cost you reinforcement cost as does the Avatar of Khaine. That would be a big thing, because if she bites the dust (enemy double turn with heavy shooting) you could still awake some Avatars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keldaur Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said: There is just no way that she is under 450 points, more than likely closer to 600. If you think she is unplayable then don't play her. If you are going against an army which will heavily threaten her first turn, then deploy her as the shadow queen and don't risk the oracle, then no matter what happens she cant die until the end of turn 2, and even if that happens you are doing very poorly. This whole army is about risk and reward. You can't compare everything against changehost, that is silly. If your interest in this army is "will this be the thing to beat changehost" then you are just playing warhammer in a way that you will always be miserable. Even if this is the army to beat changehost, then there are going to be 20 other DoK at every tournament and other people are going to play the army better or get luckier and you aren't going to win the tournament anyway. Even if you win the tournament you get a trophy worth $10 and a pat on the back and then everyone forgets about you a month later when the next tournament comes around. Bottom line? Morathi's rules are F-ing cool and she will be a ton of fun to play. She will do a lot of good work in games and carry her weight if you are doing well. You can't deploy her as the Shadow Queen. And 500-600 points for the shadow queen profile alone is just not worth it. And yeah she is cool. She is just a very good addition to a gunline type of list, where you allow shooty units to perform better, then switch to snake form to countercharge, but this relies on the point cost and how well you can manage to make her survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said: There is just no way that she is under 450 points, more than likely closer to 600. If you think she is unplayable then don't play her. If you are going against an army which will heavily threaten her first turn, then deploy her as the shadow queen and don't risk the oracle, then no matter what happens she cant die until the end of turn 2, and even if that happens you are doing very poorly. This whole army is about risk and reward. You can't compare everything against changehost, that is silly. If your interest in this army is "will this be the thing to beat changehost" then you are just playing warhammer in a way that you will always be miserable. Even if this is the army to beat changehost, then there are going to be 20 other DoK at every tournament and other people are going to play the army better or get luckier and you aren't going to win the tournament anyway. Even if you win the tournament you get a trophy worth $10 and a pat on the back and then everyone forgets about you a month later when the next tournament comes around. Bottom line? Morathi's rules are F-ing cool and she will be a ton of fun to play. She will do a lot of good work in games and carry her weight if you are doing well. Read her rules first you can't deploy her as Shadow Queen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mount Franklin Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Dead_Ghost said: So how does one go about comparing the NZ to UK (or dollar) prices? Google currency put NZD to GDP at 2:1 almost, but we know that Morathi will be £80, not £130 as the 2:1 ratio suggests. The trick is to jump between the UK and NZ store and find out what an 80 pound model will usually cost in NZ. That will give you a reasonably good idea, although sometimes the NZ price will milk us Kiwi's a wee bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURF1 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 So Little Morathi can go on a balewind. Not gonna lie, I'm probably never going to transform her voluntarily turn 1 or 2. The giant snake form is flashy but I think the Oracle form is where most of her power is going to come from, especially if they have another nuke spell somewhere in the lores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 haha I just wanted to mention the Vortex. Fin fact: what happens if the Oracle transformes on the Vortex? I guess the reincarnation happens gefore you can unsummon the Vortex. It would the Oracle give a 4times spell range. #funny I guess both forms have their uses in the course of the battle. Getting the most out of both will be key. Regarding the changehost: It is always a tough discussion if you only look on the top dog of all the AoS armies. However the DoK have most mechanics that win you games on AoS too!! Teleporting harpies for mission objectives and that Mortal wounds on 6es that the Skyfires also have. Always great fun together with Executioners and a Hurricanum (Order All.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoollyMammoth Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Seems weird that you have to have her as an oracle, but this army is all about risk/reward so that makes sense. Most armies never, ever want to go first - they want the double turn. Little Morathi might be too enticing for people not to take the first turn. So you have two options here - your opponent makes you go first, in which case you know something nasty is going to happen and you simply transform her to double her wounds. Otherwise, your opponent gets freaked out and takes the first turn just to cause 3 wounds on Morathi - which for most armies is going to be extremely difficult while she is way on the back of the board with a 2+/6++ save with -1 to hit and surrounded by lots of bodies protecting her. So your opponent took a huge risk that is not even possible of paying off too much and then you are in great place for a double turn. Of course, there could be a 1 drop battalion in here so you almost always get to decide. Seems on theme with the army that you get to make the decisions but assume the risk of those decisions. I do agree that having her forced as the Oracle means she just can't be priced at the 500+ 'god' level for points. Essentially you are paying for 3 wizards + a balewind which is easily 460 points though. However given that her wounds are so low maybe a bit of a discount. I'm going to put her at 400 points which might be a little high for some peoples tastes but is not bad. She will probably end up like 440-480 anyway. We also need to know how the spells work. If she knows 2-3 extra spells, she will be worth the extra points. If she knows only one extra spell, then she is not worth 3 wizards and so should be cheaper, sub 400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURF1 Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 So did bladed bucklers always ignore rend for the mortal wound reflection? Or is that new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 more information regarding fluff: https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2762 also about the new sea-related faction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azurious Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Morathi is wild. She has her vulnerabilities definitely but suggesting that she is only competitive at 300-350 pts makes no sense to me. In starting form she is a 3 spell a turn wizzard with -1 to hit and 36" range on average spells due to her auto doubling range ability. This gives you huge tactical flexibility with her deployment and the ability to play support and offence in the same hero phase. Then her monster profile is insanely good especially with the potential synergies with the 2 leaked spells never mind what we havent yet seen. she is not fire and forget easy mode but she has heaps of potential if played with a bit of thought and would be criminally under-costed at 350. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 awesome! 6 new battalions (additionally the bloodwrack sisterhood). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richelieu Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Found it! Behold the majesty of 20 year old pewter! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 16 minutes ago, Azurious said: Morathi is wild. She has her vulnerabilities definitely but suggesting that she is only competitive at 300-350 pts makes no sense to me. In starting form she is a 3 spell a turn wizzard with -1 to hit and 36" range on average spells due to her auto doubling range ability. This gives you huge tactical flexibility with her deployment and the ability to play support and offence in the same hero phase. Then her monster profile is insanely good especially with the potential synergies with the 2 leaked spells never mind what we havent yet seen. she is not fire and forget easy mode but she has heaps of potential if played with a bit of thought and would be criminally under-costed at 350. Nope, when you deploy her away to protect her then when she transforms she's too far away to make any impact. Also against some meta builds she will be just dead or you got to transform her turn 2. I'm just talking about her against heavly competitve army builds that's why I judge her and her point cost harshly that doesn't mean that she could be fun in more relaxed games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaleun Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, Richelieu said: Found it! Behold the majesty of 20 year old pewter! Got that one too and nearly sold it. This one might get some new action on the table :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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