Changes to Flesh Eater Courts in GHB 2017

[Jgregs]

I know The GHB is coming out in a few weeks but I can't help speculating.

Do you think the " Feeding Frenzy " table that was eluded to in the GHB sneak peak will replace the deathless minions USR for flesh eaters? If so is there a mechanic out there used for another army that it will be based off of?

Perhaps it will be like the destruction alliance bonus move roll?

So for example at the start of your turn roll a D6 for each FEC unit in your army. On a 5+ the unit doubles its attacks for that round?

That would seem pretty brutal but you would be losing deathless minions so a lot more of your ghouls will die before they get to hit? Plus you will have the delusions table to help you out even more.

 

[deynon]

1 hour ago, Jgregs said:

I know The GHB is coming out in a few weeks but I can't help speculating.

Do you think the " Feeding Frenzy " table that was eluded to in the GHB sneak peak will replace the deathless minions USR for flesh eaters? If so is there a mechanic out there used for another army that it will be based off of?

Perhaps it will be like the destruction alliance bonus move roll?

So for example at the start of your turn roll a D6 for each FEC unit in your army. On a 5+ the unit doubles its attacks for that round?

That would seem pretty brutal but you would be losing deathless minions so a lot more of your ghouls will die before they get to hit? Plus you will have the delusions table to help you out even more.

 

it's written that is something added to the traits. Everything else is only a fantasy, I'm not sure to want to follow that route: it can make yourself quite disappointed

[wayniac]

I'm pretty sure Deathless Minions and/or Rule of the Night will be changed; as it stands there would be no reason to take the specific allegiance since Deathless would be better.  I'm not sure what Feeding Frenzy is, I'm guessing it will be something to give an extra attack if you start within X" of an enemy or similar.  However, i feel that no matter what they give until they fix the issue hero sniping nothing is going to really help FEC; I had hoped beyond hope that our Allegiance Ability was something that would let heroes push wounds and mortal wounds off to nearby units (fluffwise being the ghouls sacrifice their life to save their king and his court), but alas it was not so.  

[Dracothjay]

I can't see deathless minions getting changed, not by much anyway.  Every death player will agree that we NEED that 5+ DM save as most death units come with a ****** base save. 

If they do change it I think death will take a sting in terms of anyone having interest in playing this alliance. Also, if they do change it something equally as good better replace it!

[Sception]

Frankly, I think ruler of the night will be dropped outright, or changed to 'reroll ones' on deathless minion saves instead of +1 to the saves.  If the faction takes a competitive nose dive as a result, then they can adjust our points value in next year's general's handbook (or in battle tome and alliance books before then).  But as it is, the ability is kind of too good, to the point of invalidating any potential subfaction rules we might get.  What does it matter what faction traits or command abilities flesh eaters get as a subfaction, if none of them will ever compare to just taking a your ghouls as a generic death army with Deathless Minions and Ruler of the Night?

[Dracothjay]

If RoTN does go, then that will leave the death alliance very fragile. Hell, wells die easier than elves, which is very concerning. 

[Sception]

I agree.  But faction traits and command abilities are supposed to be fun minor boosts, not army defining, and they're supposed to be options, which isn't the case when there's an obvious right choice.  If they nerf or remove RotN, well, that'll suck, and undead will likely suck for a while as a result (especially when the main alternative to RotN, Settra, is likely to suffer a huge points increase - or possibly be removed from matched play altogether), but that can be fixed with future points or scroll updates, it wouldn't be a forever problem.

[werewolf-comics]

I imagine frenzy to be similar to tyranid synapse. Bonus when near a hero and "out of control" when away from one

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[Sception]

can probably count on a 40ish point discount on maxed out unit of crypt ghouls.

[Okami]

My thoughts are that Deathless Minion would be a universal thing in all sub-allegiances (FEC, Soulblight etc). However will be worded differently for each. I also think FEC you'll see ghoul patrol come more competitive with maxing out unit sizes being discounted will make that battalion more powerful. Ruler of the night would only be a mixed death thing, as i think other armies in death would have other powerful things that will be similar. FEC for instance we are getting our own style of "Code" like Karadron Overlords, where they multiple special rules. So death will be competitive still it just as it stands a constant 5+ save to unsaved damage and mortal wounds is quite powerful and armies like Order and Destruction can't cope with it much. 

[someone2040]

9 hours ago, Okami said:

My thoughts are that Deathless Minion would be a universal thing in all sub-allegiances (FEC, Soulblight etc). However will be worded differently for each. I also think FEC you'll see ghoul patrol come more competitive with maxing out unit sizes being discounted will make that battalion more powerful. Ruler of the night would only be a mixed death thing, as i think other armies in death would have other powerful things that will be similar. FEC for instance we are getting our own style of "Code" like Karadron Overlords, where they multiple special rules. So death will be competitive still it just as it stands a constant 5+ save to unsaved damage and mortal wounds is quite powerful and armies like Order and Destruction can't cope with it much. 

I've thought about Deathless Minions becoming universal across Death. It wouldn't necessarily surprise me, as many Allegiance Abilities are multi-part.

But I think, in the end, it's a bit lazy. The way I see it, is that this represents the minions of Death basically being dead, and immune to pain. But, not all units working under Death need necessarily be Undead. We know that both the living and the dead work together in Shyish. So what's to say we won't see Human death cultists down the line? Are Giant Bats and Bat Swarms Undead? Are Soulblight Vampires technically dead? Even if they are, they definitely feel pain unlike the more mindless minions such as Zombies and Skeletons.

So I think in the end, if all the Death factions got Deathless Minions, it'd be a bit boring. I don't personally believe it's a good fit for Soulblight as per above. The supernatural abilities of Vampires can be better represented on the Warscrolls (Stuff like healing after wounding, increased wounds/movement,etc) than through an allegiance ability, while the Allegiance should represent how they fight as a collective army and identity.

Hence, stuff like Bloodlines and the Insanities of the Flesh-Eaters makes sense.

[Jgregs]

So it looks like FEC took a bit of a hit with the new general's hand book.

Here are the changes that I've seen.

POINT INCREASES:

Ghoul king on foot +20 = 120

Ghoul king on zombie dragon +40 = 440

Crypt Horrors +20  = 160

Almost all of the battalions,  Ghoul patrol went up to 150!

POINT DECREASES:

Terrorghiest -20 = 300

Zombie dragon -20 =300

Crypt ghouls = a unit of 40 now costs 360 not 400.

NEW ABILITIES

feeding frenzy = if you wipe out a unit you roll a D6. on a 6 you can attack another unit within a certain range,

Delusions table: 1-6 delusions - adds minor abilities like reroll 1's to hit.

Command abilities. 6 new abilities, one lets  you change your delusion every turn if you want. Another gives you feeding frenzy on a 5+.

 

All in all not the end of the word. the point increases do sting, I don't think many people will take ghoul patrol now. Feeding frenzy and The delusions table are nice little buffs.

 

[Uprising]

5 hours ago, Jgregs said:

So it looks like FEC took a bit of a hit with the new general's hand book.

Here are the changes that I've seen.

POINT INCREASES:

Ghoul king on foot +20 = 120

Ghoul king on zombie dragon +40 = 440

Crypt Horrors +20  = 160

Almost all of the battalions,  Ghoul patrol went up to 150!

POINT DECREASES:

Terrorghiest -20 = 300

Zombie dragon -20 =300

Crypt ghouls = a unit of 40 now costs 360 not 400.

NEW ABILITIES

feeding frenzy = if you wipe out a unit you roll a D6. on a 6 you can attack another unit within a certain range,

Delusions table: 1-6 delusions - adds minor abilities like reroll 1's to hit.

Command abilities. 6 new abilities, one lets  you change your delusion every turn if you want. Another gives you feeding frenzy on a 5+.

 

All in all not the end of the word. the point increases do sting, I don't think many people will take ghoul patrol now. Feeding frenzy and The delusions table are nice little buffs.

 

I hate to say it but with the increase of all the battalion, ghoul patrol got better.  At only a 50 pt increase, 30 squads points bonus(120), and bonus to hordes over objectives make the patrol only 30 pts(your going to take those units anyway).  This is still THE battalion for FEC.  90 reg ghouls are perfect for 2000 points.  

[wayniac]

Honestly, I think 40 ghouls is a trap.  30 work just as well, and with the points you save not going to 40 you can even take Ghoul Patrol again with the increase.

I think other than a few outliers, you will see some variation of this as the Flesh-Eater Courts monobuild:

Ghoul King on Terrorgheist or Zombie Dragon
Haunter/Infernal Courtier (depending on Horrors or Flayers)
Crypt Ghast Courtier
6x Horrors or Flayers
3 units of 30 ghouls
Ghoul Patrol OR allied Necromancer

[Jgregs]

Hmmm okay maybe ghoul patrol isn't so bad with the increase.

Ive been thinking about running the following list at 2000:

GKZD - 440

Varghulf  - 160

Crypt ghast - 80

10 crypt ghouls x 3 - 300

6 crypt horrors - 320

3 crypt flayers - 160

BATTALION- Ghoul Patrol - 150

ALLIES -

necromancer - 110

40 Skeletons with spears -280

TOTAL - 2000 on the nose.

 

[choocheelo]

Hmmm okay maybe ghoul patrol isn't so bad with the increase.
Ive been thinking about running the following list at 2000:
GKZD - 440
Varghulf  - 160
Crypt ghast - 80
10 crypt ghouls x 3 - 300
6 crypt horrors - 320
3 crypt flayers - 160
BATTALION- Ghoul Patrol - 150
ALLIES -
necromancer - 110
40 Skeletons with spears -280
TOTAL - 2000 on the nose.
 

Hmm... why not:
Gkozd 440
3x40 ghouls 1080
Ghast 80
Ally: necromanser 110
BATTALION- Ghoul Patrol - 150
And some for 140 pts like another ghast maybe?

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[Jgregs]

I would probably go insane if I has to build and paint 120 ghouls. And they are my favorite of the 4 death battle line units. " dire wolves are now battle line in the new book "

[choocheelo]

Just say yourself "it is for better life"

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[Guest]

On 8/22/2017 at 6:38 PM, Jgregs said:

I would probably go insane if I has to build and paint 120 ghouls. And they are my favorite of the 4 death battle line units. " dire wolves are now battle line in the new book "

I'm looking at expanding my Flesh-Eaters warband to a full army, and to be honest even the prospect of converting and painting thirty ghouls is making my skin crawl. What would people say to an army composed mostly of Crypt Horrors? I don't mind converting and painting those so much.

[Jgregs]

30 Crypt ghouls is totally doable. Its a beautiful kit in my opinion. even at 40 models you can make each one look unique. But yeah I would really not want to do more than 40. A  mostly Crypt Horror force is definitely an option as well. The general consensus is that a unit of 6 is the optimal size " if you go to 9 you will have problems positioning them. An army with 2 units of 6 horrors each is a very solid foundation. If you go with a Crypt Haunter Courtier as your general then you can go all crypt horrors.

[choocheelo]

I'm looking at expanding my Flesh-Eaters warband to a full army, and to be honest even the prospect of converting and painting thirty ghouls is making my skin crawl. What would people say to an army composed mostly of Crypt Horrors? I don't mind converting and painting those so much.

I have now 30 horrors... and 90 ghouls... and imho ghouls are more easier to paint than horrors... just get an airbrush and fsssst-fssst )) I played ghoul patrol, attendants at court and some another battalions. This is not a problem to play 2 units by 9 horrors. It is a killing machine with attendants and 2 wargulfs + haunter that never die. But it was in ghb1.

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[TheWilddog]

I painted 60 ghouls in one go and it was not too bad.  I actually like the kit despite some of the hate it gets. Throw some Rakarth Flesh in the air brush and go to town. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, TheWilddog said:

I painted 60 ghouls in one go and it was not too bad.  I actually like the kit despite some of the hate it gets. Throw some Rakarth Flesh in the air brush and go to town. 

My guys are all converted though. I'd want to continue with the theme. Takes time!

[TheWilddog]

1 minute ago, Jamie the Jasper said:

My guys are all converted though. I'd want to continue with the theme. Takes time!

Gotcha.  Those look great by the way. Knocking it out of the park with those conversions.

 

[choocheelo]

My guys are all converted though. I'd want to continue with the theme. Takes time!

Yeah.. they are awsome :3

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