The rogue Idol in destruction lists

[Malakree]

I agree it's not worth it for ironjawz, it's a very expensive way to patch up the bravery issues while augmenting magic we don't really run.

Imo it would be good for magic heavy orruk armies, see the bonesplittz list I posted. It has a wide enough range of magic options, due to the Bonesplitterz magic list, and gets 5 casts a turn. At that level the extra casting value really shows its potential. 

I really feel like both grot lists, moon clan and gitmob, could use their own spell lists akin to the bonesplittz one. That combined with the lower model/unit cost might make it a solid choice.

If you aren't making use of all aspects of the rogue idol imo there are better options. (Bloodtoof or 2 gargants)

Having said that!

I do think there is a place for it in a Bonesplitterz list as they have the variety of both wizards and spells to really make use of its bonus. Additionally they have the same bravery issues all other orruks suffer but have some fantastic command abilities that incentivise not using inspiring presence every turn.

[Sheriff]

23 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I agree it's not worth it for ironjawz, it's a very expensive way to patch up the bravery issues while augmenting magic we don't really run.

Imo it would be good for magic heavy orruk armies, see the bonesplittz list I posted. It has a wide enough range of magic options, due to the Bonesplitterz magic list, and gets 5 casts a turn. At that level the extra casting value really shows its potential. 

I really feel like both grot lists, moon clan and gitmob, could use their own spell lists akin to the bonesplittz one. That combined with the lower model/unit cost might make it a solid choice.

If you aren't making use of all aspects of the rogue idol imo there are better options. (Bloodtoof or 2 gargants)

Having said that!

I do think there is a place for it in a Bonesplitterz list as they have the variety of both wizards and spells to really make use of its bonus. Additionally they have the same bravery issues all other orruks suffer but have some fantastic command abilities that incentivise not using inspiring presence every turn.

For Spiderfang/Moonclan, the only way we can have a magic-heavy list is by using those precious 400(!) points on shaman/arachnaroks. You can't afford both without losing a ton of infantry/ other stuff.

My list has 4 wizards for example, but no chance I can squeeze in a 400 point boulder to synergize with them. 

[Malakree]

@Sheriff it's why I said gitmob and moon clan. Both of those have cheap avaliable wizards which allow them to pack a ton of casters for no cost. Both could also really do with their own spell lists, like bonesplittz, and allegiance abilities. 

Spiderfang on the other hand is like ironjawz, it has cheaper better ways to fill the majority of the things a rogue idol does.

Notably the arachnarok is an amazing model for 2/3rds the price that doesn't consume your allies slot.

[Sheriff]

4 minutes ago, Malakree said:

@Sheriff 

Notably the arachnarok is an amazing model for 2/3rds the price that doesn't consume your allies slot.

Yep thats why I have 2 of them 

Also in terms of lore why would my goblins want to worship a rock-effigy of Gork when they have beautiful spiders to worship? Too many deities and their representatives could be confusing on the battlefield, especially for greenskin intellect. 

[Malakree]

Technically it's Gork (or Mork) which makes it suitable for most greenskins. Sadly spiderfang grots are like that crazy cousin, technically part of the family but does some strange stuff which makes you think they ain't right in Da Ead

[Sheriff]

2 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Technically it's Gork (or Mork) which makes it suitable for most greenskins. Sadly spiderfang grots are like that crazy cousin, technically part of the family but does some strange stuff which makes you think they ain't right in Da Ead

Strange to orcs perhaps, they just aren't as progressive as Moonclan or Spiderfang, who like to experiment with new things and embrace change, be it mushrooms or gods or venom-induced body modification. 

[Thostos]

 Its certainly not the most optimal choice for my Bonesplitterz,but its totally fluffy as it has no Bones!

 

 I dont build hard core tourney lists,Im happy doing events and hanging out at the mid tables:)

 

 

[Chris Tomlin]

Yeh I think we can probably all agree there's not much place for this guy in your list if you are trying to optimise your build (if we are really going down that path I think I'd rather try the double Cabbage route).

However list writing isn't (and perhaps shouldn't) always be about that. Sometimes it's cool to play with something a bit different and there's nothing wrong whatsoever with wanting to get this big pile o' rocks into your army. I'm definitely looking forward to giving mine a run out (at a tournament no less) and will definitely report back on how (badly) he performs. Just have to hope I don't come up against any damage 1 shooting!  

[bonzai]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

I agree it's not worth it for ironjawz, it's a very expensive way to patch up the bravery issues while augmenting magic we don't really run.

Imo it would be good for magic heavy orruk armies, see the bonesplittz list I posted. It has a wide enough range of magic options, due to the Bonesplitterz magic list, and gets 5 casts a turn. At that level the extra casting value really shows its potential. 

I really feel like both grot lists, moon clan and gitmob, could use their own spell lists akin to the bonesplittz one. That combined with the lower model/unit cost might make it a solid choice.

If you aren't making use of all aspects of the rogue idol imo there are better options. (Bloodtoof or 2 gargants)

Having said that!

I do think there is a place for it in a Bonesplitterz list as they have the variety of both wizards and spells to really make use of its bonus. Additionally they have the same bravery issues all other orruks suffer but have some fantastic command abilities that incentivise not using inspiring presence every turn.

Plus if it does it buffs the Moreboy.

I'm trying out almost the exact same list, except I'm running two squads of 20 more boys instead of 30. This let's me squeeze in a second boarboy maniac squad.

[eekamouse]

20 hours ago, Malakree said:

@eekamouse

I really wana say right now to drop both brutes to goregruntas and grab the extra 10 ardboyz.

Greatly increases mobility and makes the shaman blow that much bigger and tougher. 

Also means there's no competition for IP and MS which combined make 30 ardboyz almost immovable. 

You do lose out on the brutes but wounds wise you only gain and it fits in with your general game plan. 

The 9 goregruntas and MK are an immediate threats while the Idol/weirdnobs/ardboyz represent a slow but just as pressing threat. Should let your weirdnobs do some crazy damage with their spells.

In your current list the brutes feel kinda like they are the odd ones out to me.

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)

Battleline
30 x Orruk Ardboys (450)
- Ironjawz Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)
- Ironjawz Battleline
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Ironjawz Battleline

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)
- Allies

Reinforcement Points (0)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Allies: 400 / 400
 

The goregrunters could also go as 3/3/3

That all makes perfect sense. Thanks!

[Malakree]

 

46 minutes ago, bonzai said:

Plus if it does it buffs the Moreboy.

I'm trying out almost the exact same list, except I'm running two squads of 20 more boys instead of 30. This let's me squeeze in a second boarboy maniac squad.

It's more a personal uh...tic..I guess. I'm loath to fall "just" short of the massive unit. 20 Moreboyz are 240 while 30 are 300 so the last 10 are 60 points instead of 120.

I understand that there are good reasons It's just a silly quirk. I almost want to say go 30/10 gaining you 180 points (rather than 120) but then the question is what does the spare 60 points get you  plus 10 moreboyz are way less useful than 20 so.

 

EDIT: In case anyone hasn't noticed I love theory crafting and list building. I'm not criticising or attempting to disaude people from trying things it's a need to try to refine and explore all options within the given parameters!

[bonzai]

On 10/13/2017 at 10:35 AM, Malakree said:

 

It's more a personal uh...tic..I guess. I'm loath to fall "just" short of the massive unit. 20 Moreboyz are 240 while 30 are 300 so the last 10 are 60 points instead of 120.

I understand that there are good reasons It's just a silly quirk. I almost want to say go 30/10 gaining you 180 points (rather than 120) but then the question is what does the spare 60 points get you  plus 10 moreboyz are way less useful than 20 so.

 

EDIT: In case anyone hasn't noticed I love theory crafting and list building. I'm not criticising or attempting to disaude people from trying things it's a need to try to refine and explore all options within the given parameters!

Understood. I didn't really see any benefit for ten additional bodies over having 5 more boar boy maniacs. It's all one drop still, and the maniacs get their own extra pile in. Plus it's another semi fast moving potential objective grabber. 

To each their own. I really like the list concept though, and have just finished pinning my idol. Can't wait to try it out. Hopefully it can be semi comparative, so we don't have to rely entirely on the Kunning Rukk to have a chance. 

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, bonzai said:

Understood. I didn't really see any benefit for ten additional bodies over having 5 more boar boy maniacs. It's all one drop still, and the maniacs get their own extra pile in. Plus it's another semi fast moving potential objective grabber. 

To each their own. I really like the list concept though, and have just finished pinning my idol. Can't wait to try it out. Hopefully it can be semi comparative, so we don't have to rely entirely on the Kunning Rukk to have a chance. 

Considering a month ago gorefist would have been called unusable go for it. Personally opinion is that the casting side of bonesplittz is Super strong and flexible! 

As to the moreboys I'd go 30/10 if I had something to spend the 60 points on. 

[bonzai]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

Considering a month ago gorefist would have been called unusable go for it. Personally opinion is that the casting side of bonesplittz is Super strong and flexible! 

As to the moreboys I'd go 30/10 if I had something to spend the 60 points on. 

Casting is definitely a major strength. I figured out that Bonesplitterz can get up to a +5 casting bonus, which is pretty unheard of.

Another benefit is that the more oys get some magic resistance which is great in a tzeentch environment

[Malakree]

The drakfoot letting you ignore enemy spells on a 6 is really solid. Especially since you can put your entire army in the Warclan so even your boarboyz get it.

Where is the +5 from, +2 from the Kop Rukk, +1 from the Idol, +1 from the dance. That's +4 but I can't find the 5th

That's srsly disgusting for your drakfoot though because you auto pass any doubles, hence the min roll on a cast is 3. As such your wardokk is auto casting any spell with a casting value of 7! Plus you have only a 1/18 chance to fail a casting value of 8.

When you consider that blood waaagh! Is casting value 8 that's super sick.

Moreover even at only +3 your wardokks are autocasting everything other than gorkamorkas war cry.

Seriously I rigged the list up without even looking at the full potential, wow it seems way more solid than I expected. Only problem is you will need MOAR BOYZ 

[Spiky Norman]

10 hours ago, Malakree said:

Where is the +5 from, +2 from the Kop Rukk, +1 from the Idol, +1 from the dance. That's +4 but I can't find the 5th

 

If you take a Balewind Vortex you can get the +1 extra, in addition to the extra range on the Prophets spells for instance.

If you dropped one Morboys unit down to 20 to get the Vortex, you can make sure the Fists of Gork spell can reach even further and that the Prophet can see most of the battlefield. Of course he's going to be a real target up there :-)

[Malakree]

2 minutes ago, Spiky Norman said:

If you take a Balewind Vortex you can get the +1 extra, in addition to the extra range on the Prophets spells for instance.

I was just toying around with the Scrollbuilder and looked at something like this for an all-in on casting list:

 

Ahh of course. The prophet doesn't get the +2 from more boys though so he'd only be at +3 with the dance on him.

Still disgusting though especially if you get the 24" unbinding Artefact on him. Complete domination of the magic phases.

[Spiky Norman]

Just now, Malakree said:

Ahh of course. The prophet doesn't get the +2 from more boys though so he'd only be at +3 with the dance on him.

Still disgusting though especially if you get the 24" unbinding Artefact on him. Complete domination of the magic phases.

From Orruks no less! Who expects that?! :-)

[Malakree]

5 minutes ago, Spiky Norman said:

From Orruks no less! Who expects that?! :-)

Not the tzeench lists that find themselves facing 5 unbinding at +4/+5 AND a 6+ save to just ignore harmful spells.

Oh let's not forget the wall of supercharged spells.

Dem wizardy chaoses guna ave a fit!

[meet.the.doctor]

10 hours ago, Malakree said:

The drakfoot letting you ignore enemy spells on a 6 is really solid. Especially since you can put your entire army in the Warclan so even your boarboyz get it.

Where is the +5 from, +2 from the Kop Rukk, +1 from the Idol, +1 from the dance. That's +4 but I can't find the 5th

That's srsly disgusting for your drakfoot though because you auto pass any doubles, hence the min roll on a cast is 3. As such your wardokk is auto casting any spell with a casting value of 7! Plus you have only a 1/18 chance to fail a casting value of 8.

When you consider that blood waaagh! Is casting value 8 that's super sick.

Moreover even at only +3 your wardokks are autocasting everything other than gorkamorkas war cry.

Seriously I rigged the list up without even looking at the full potential, wow it seems way more solid than I expected. Only problem is you will need MOAR BOYZ 

I got really inspired by that idea. 

...And decided to swap my usual Prophet General with Mystic Waagh Paint (on Vortex) for Wardokk. Seems like I can get better bonuses for dispell on 48" with the Kop Rukk.

But another thing comes to my mind. When using Great Zappa Squig I get an additional random spell. Does it allow for another dispell?

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, meet.the.doctor said:

But another thing comes to my mind. When using Great Zappa Squig I get an additional random spell. Does it allow for another dispell?

It would say an unbinding if it did. 

I think the mystic waaagh paint prophet on balewind is guna be your best for unbinding just because of the 2 attempts. 

Besides the wardokks +1 from wardance can go on any bonesplittz wizard in 10". It's why the wardokk + prophet combo is so good. You get 3 spells and 3 unbinding attempts while the wardokk acts as a great force multiplier for the prophet. Do they stack?

Drakfoot+rogue idol should mean your prophet is at +4 on his double unbinding every turn.