tom_gore

I did the math and with the Ardboys there's a place for both the big choppa and the two choppas. The big choppa is on average more damage against lower and higher toughness, and equal damage against equal toughness. Two choppas obviously have a higher damage potential, but on the other hand the big choppa has a higher chance to finish off low health models. So in short, against equal strength/toughness model with many wounds left, it's better to go with the 2 choppas. Against different toughness and/or low health models it's better to go with the big choppa. If you're using Onslaught, the big choppa is even more better and the only thing better about the 2 choppas remains the higher potential with crits.

You also have to consider many people have loads of AoS miniatures lying around. With your "guidelines" they would be unable to field many of them. Heck, if someone had modeled their dual-wielding Ardboys with dual axes, dual maces and dual swords, he would be unable to field any of them! WYSIWYG is an admirable goal, but you're taking it a level too far. I have a very hard time believing any new player would be confused about the version of Ardboys each of the Shadespire models would be representing. Much less the actual Ardboys miniatures that would be wielding dual maces, for example.

What are we even arguing here about? @Sleboda are you saying that in order to field an Ardboy as the Choppa and Smasha version you need to have one sword-like weapon and one mace-like weapon in order not to confuse the opponent? I'm guessing you haven't played against/with Ironjawz in AoS? There is no stat difference at all between the mace-like, the axe-like and the sword-like weapons for Ardboys. The only difference is the two-handed weapons (of which there are also axe-like and mace-like versions), which are also separaten in Warcry. I think the only model where you could get confused is the boss, since the weapon configuration is quite similar to the Choppa and Smasha Ardboy, especially considering Gurzag from the Shadespire warband. Even then, Gurzag has a very distinctive fur cloak over his shoulders, and the Ardboy kit Boss is usually modeled with the huge axe-like choppa and without a helmet.

Azyrite Halo is pretty situational and rarely useful in my opinion, especially as the Liberators don't have an option to reroll all failed saves.. I would replace with Chain Lightning, Lightning Blast or another direct damage spell to capitalize on your ranged damage.

The way they handled the BoC warband is brilliant. Make a new warband for Underworlds and at the same offer a new plastic hero for the AoS range in one swoop, to replace the somewhat aged resin model. I certainly hope they'll repeat that with a Bonesplitterz warband, making a new wardok or wurrgog prophet (or even both) appear in that plastic kit.

Well it sure is insane enough with the #2 interpretation, and still better enough than the generic Quad with the #1 interpretation. Would love GW:s clarification on this one, though.

What do you mean? Most of them have a minimum range they can shoot into. It's not hard to block them off from shooting at you. The real problem is the SCE shooters hit like a truck in melee, too. The only unit really losing a lot of power when tied to melee is the Longstrike.

EDIT: Not sure, but at least 2 of them for sure.

You find that weird but not the fact that neither the Ironjawz Gore-Hacka or the Gore-Choppa don't have range either? 😛

We're talking about Warcry here. Skaven, Slaanesh and Fyreslayers don't even have rules for Warcy yet. From the existing Warcry warbands, I'd rank Gloomspite Gitz very near if not top tier.

I think the Sempiternals battalions are costed under the assumption the SCE battalions are worth their points to begin with, which most of them are not...

Except in AoS the Ironjawz are anything but slow. Especially with the latest GHB update adding a teleport spell and making Rampaging Destroyers a command ability instead of a random roll. If anything, Ironjawz can be made to cover ground faster than pretty much any army in AoS, across their whole army. That is not possible in Warcry.

I would say they are way overcosted for the most part. Should tune up the stats or lower the costs for most units to have some kind of chance against the official warbands.

This is by far their best quality. Let's all pray to Gorkamorka GW will put the Brutes in their rightful place with the Orruk Warclans battletome. That being the top of the elite infantry food chain.

Played a couple more games yesterday with Ironjawz. This time against Stormcast. I still think Ironjawz are crippled by their 3" movement and 1" attack range across the board. Sure, when they get to melee they wreck face, but the problem is getting them there. The group with your boss is fine, being able to rely on Waaagh! to get more speed, but the other groups are essentially screwed if they deploy far from the action and/or the objectives, slogging forward 6" a turn or 8" if spending a Double for Rush. I also don't think it's good design that one warband basically needs a decent high double or triple on the first turn(s), plus needing to activate their Leader first in every game to get anywhere. Bottom line is, Ironjawz are quite limited and should I say boring to play. They lack variety and options that every other warband has. I also played one game with my Untamed Beasts and every turn I had a plethora of options what to do next and how to mess with my opponents plans. With the Ironjawz I feel the opponent has all the cards in his hands and I'm just playing by his plan.

Yeah they can put out a decent amount of attacks, but with 32mm base and 1" melee range it's difficult to capitalize on that. For their price, they sure are killy.

What do you mean stacking? You can't stack save rolls because you only ever get one reroll for each roll, period. This also applies to forced rerolls. So for example if you have a rule that says you can reroll hit rolls of 1 and your enemy has a rule that says you have to reroll hit rolls of 6, you reroll all 1s and 6s just once, regardless of how they turn up after the reroll. (I.e. if you first roll 6 and then are forced to reroll, rolling a 1, you don't get to reroll that anymore).

You can still make the pile-in move, just need to finish B2B with all the models you were previously. Which is not a problem for a flying model.

You can combo two move actions to climb up, as you are still climbing when you finish the first move and thus won't fall. You will need to finish your activation with the center of your base on a platform though or you will fall. 3" is not enough to climb up on a 3" platform if you're touching the base of the platform at the beginning of the move, since you still need to pay for the horizontal movement too, enough to move you at least half the diameter of your base onto the platform. I see a lot of players playing this wrong and ignoring the horizontal movement when they climb onto a platform.

Have you seen the rulebook? Matched play has fixed scenarios just like AoS, so the battleplan cards are not used there. Which is good, since I cannot imagine playing in a tournament with the battleplan cards. That just wouldn't make sense.

Netters are insanely good against elite armies. Shutting down a Brute Boss for a round from 11" away with a 45 point model is... Well not priceless but VERY cheap!

Actually even the normal platforms in the core set are not 3" high...

Ironjawz Shield Bash Double would like to have a word with you about that Worst Double Ever title...

Don't know why the math is different. I just calculated the average damage done by 1 attack (for example for 1/4 damage profile used (0 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 4) / 6) and multiplied it by 8. Still, thanks for the curves. It does show those high damage numbers are rare, but of course rare things happen. I can definitely live with that, because I'm not super competitive. I do know some players will be put off by this since they feel they don't have enough control of the outcome of attack actions.