amysrevenge

Yes

I think power creep as a continual systemic process is an illusion. Some new things that come out are better. Some things aren't. People who are keen to talk about power creep will only count the "hits" and disregard the "misses". If 5 new armies come out, and 1 of them is super awesome and nudges the curve upward, 3 of them are fine, and 1 is terrible, to the Power Creep Crowd that is clear evidence of continual systemic power creep. I also think that "theoryhammer" exaggerates the real impact of army imbalances by like a factor of 5.

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we definitely have enough rules details and gameplay results to make loud declarative statements of the relative power of the new faction. No new information of data can possibly be forthcoming to influence or counter these statements, possibly making us look silly in hindsight. (Just putting this here so I can go back to it and copy-paste it during teaser week for every new army and look like a genius)

I try to think of it from the other direction, like your Warhammer army coming to life, with lots of appropriately sharp weapons, and coming at you for doing such a shoddy paint job on them (ie. me). Not immediately life threatening, maybe, but could seriously mess up your feet if you didn't have armoured shoes on.

I consider two categories of terrain - terrain that you can easily deploy and move models on, and terrain that you can't. So for the former, something like (many types of) hills or fields or swamps or what-not. You can fill the whole board with that for all I care.

Don't forget combat gauge. Don't know what that is in pounds but if I remember right it's almost 50 bucks CDN (compared to all the free 3D printed ones I have hahahaha)

This is a great point. Looking at summoning is particular is one thing, but activation wars is a more frustrating thing for me. At least you get to fight against the unending swarm of summoned forces, but if you lose the activation wars all you get to do roll is saves and take off you toys.

It's actually both sides of that economy that need a look. There's the haves and the have-nots as far as how many CPs they receive, and there are also haves and have-nots as far as useful things to do with them. Some of my armies I spend every CP pretty much as soon as I get them, other armies I finish the battle with 3 or 4 unspent.

I don't know what it's like in 40k, but in AoS the things that cost command points don't really balance with each other well. It would be tricky to re-balance them at the "how many command points do you get" level, just because the things that are really good are still really good (just less often) and the things that are less good are still less good. But then the only alternative is to balance them at the "what do you get for a command point" level and that's a whole lot of things to look at.

As an addendum to my post above, after considering it for a while. There aren't that many old WFB armies left to deal with. So there are fewer opportunities left to do what I labelled as 3, 4, or 5. They'd have to un-soup some Legions of Nagash or Cities of Sigmar, or un-squat Gitmob or Greenskins or Bretonnia. So maybe there is reason to hope for a new tactic out of GW sometime in the not too distant future?

NICE! Yeah, Khorne is kind of hard to fit too, nice catch.

I think the best way to look forward is to look backward - GW can surprise us by doing something completely different, but it's most likely that their tactics will remain the same for now as what they've been doing has turned out to be very successful. What types of things have they done? Also, I know you will anyway because it's the internet, but I'm explicitly asking anyone who has a reason, to correct any of these. 1) Stormcast. These guys stand out from the rest of the line as a unique entity. Characteristics of this tactic: New army for AoS. Consistent (for the first few years anyway) multi-kit additions to the line. Dribs and drabs such as new heroes. 2) New army. There have been several brand new armies. Characteristics of this tactic: Entirely new line of models. New battletome. Never again (to date) add a full unit to the line. Might possibly add a hero. Maybe endless spells, maybe terrain. Examples: Idoneth Deepkln, Fyreslayers, Kharadron 3) Revised and updated army. This would be an old WFB army that is given a solid AoS treatment Characteristics of this tactic: Re-use of many old plastic (or even finecast) kits One or more new plastic kits, either to represent new units or to replace old metal/finecast kits "Squatting" of some of the WFB or early AoS compendium kits. New battletome Never again (to date) add a full unit to the line. Might possibly add a hero. Maybe endless spells, maybe terrain. Examples: Gloomspite Gits, Ironjaws, Daughters of Khaine, Nurgle, Sylvaneth 4) Battletome only. This would be an old WFB army that is given a token AoS treatment Characteristics of this tactic: "Squatting" of some of the WFB or early AoS compendium kits. New battletome Never again (to date) add a full unit to the line. Might possibly add a hero. Maybe endless spells, maybe terrain. Examples: Flesheaters, Seraphon 5) Soup combinations, either of old WFB armies or combining early AoS armies Characteristics of this tactic: "Squatting" of some of the WFB or early AoS compendium kits. Battletome Never again (to date) add a full unit to the line. Might possibly add a hero. Maybe endless spells, maybe terrain. Examples: Legion of Nagach, Cities of Sigmar, New Orruk and Ogor books, Beasts of Chaos What sort of things can we learn from the past, when predicting the future? First, I don't know where to file Slaves to Darkness in that list, they kind of fit and don't fit in a couple places. All of the "real" line is old kits, the new Warriors and Knights supplement but don't replace the old kits, and all the Warcry bands which are technically StD don't feel like it to me. They are a 3, and also a 4. Hard to categorize. To me there is one big lesson (and this is where I need someone to correct me if I'm wrong): with the exception of Stormcast, there has never yet been a new multi-model unit added to an army* in the entire life of AoS. *By "army" I mean a faction with a printed battletome. So no post-battletome additions, other than heroes. So, while it is possible that at any time we could have new units for old armies drop into our laps, it would be a departure from established practices, not a continuation.

I need full unemployment again, got 5 or 6 army-sized projects done last time.

Well, the good (?) news is that we're on reduced hours starting this week, so I get an extra day off while the wife is working . So I should be able to squeeze some hobby time in. If I didn't already have 10 unpainted armies I'd be hurting to afford to buy anything, but as it is I can manage replacement paints and brushes for a long time.

Everyone who is in the hobby right now is still involved after the last time there was a price rise and it was the last straw for someone and they left the hobby (or talked big about leaving and then didn't). Every price rise is declared as the point at which the hobby can't continue as it is out of reach for the common hobbyist. And then a year later, the current pricing is sustainable for the common hobbyist, but the next price rise puts it out of reach. Until the next price rise, which is *really* the one that puts it out of reach for the common hobbyist. And then then next one, where we *really mean it this time*. And then you get to 1998.... Anytime you find yourself thinking "I wish it was as affordable now as it was back in {insert date here]", you can search through the records and find people at that time upset about how unaffordable it was . It's literally the most predictable thing in the hobby.

I wanted to go back and see what I put in this thread last time it came up. Yup, still true. (I think GW analyzes a large variety of factors when setting or changing prices, including hard figures like materials, overhead, labour, transport, storage and other costs, as well as soft figures such as anticipating customer behaviours and attitudes when faced with various price options, and other factors such as maximum factory outputs and pandemic-related shipping difficulties, and then maximizes anticipated profit based on all of those factors. Or, rather, I'd be appalled if they didn't consider all of those things and act accordingly.)

Oh that would be nice. I just got my Shadows over Hammerhal assembled.

Haven't had a lot of time but most of them are on bases now at least. Feels like an army and not a jumble now.

Same here. Stuck with less free time than ever these days (thankful to have a job, but still...)

...20 points less than...

For my Lordinator, I did a headswap with an Endrinrigger head, and I thought it improved quite a bit haha.

Sucks to be essential. I have less hobby time than ever lol. Easter weekend was nice; I got two full days in, finished building Shadows over Hammerhal. But I haven't raised a brush or clippers since.

Or put the Wound cutoff at 5 instead of 9. Boom, instant challenge upgrade.

Got the paint off the metals that were painted back in the before times (before I moved off of craft paints and on to hobby paint haha). And man, are my hands tired. #brushbrushbrush