Turragor

RIP Kroakcast! I never knew you (on the tabletop) but dreamed many a list with you.

To hop on the 40k primaris/first born comparisons - right now the 40k marine meta has a neat kind of balance with unit choices between the two. Vanguard Veterans (oldmodels/first born) and Attack Bikes (oldmodels/first born) see a lot of play together with primaris choices. That said, I'm building/converting primaris versions of those older models while making use of the older models' rules. But that's mainly the size difference. Can't stand marinelets beside primaris. These new SCE will be the same scale.

Love it! The good: Reboot brings healthier rule sets. SCE are the poster boys so will be very competitive to begin with. They will reuse all the scrolls and we may have a Extremis chamber scenario on our hands (if they update Warrior Chamber model range rules) The models, oooof (btw I built this 4 yrs back: ) The bad: We may have a Sacrosanct Chamber situation on our hands and replace 2000 pts to build the coolest lists The current release "jam" means models may be extremely hard to get hold of? I HAD planned to save more than usual this year

Not only did I guess this but I built this 4 yrs ago (ish) Interesting times! Who knows if a Starcast- like approach as SCE will survive?

I see some interesting rules on that warcsroll. Might be useful in some specific matchups.

Pretty sure he will as its not just a model but warscroll changes if I remember right. The old model that I have is a good subsitute for a Slann anyways if necessary. Tbh I think the last reveal day (mystery? day) is going to be AoS 3.0. Just a hunch though.

I am not sure if someone has mentioned but I far prefer the implementation of damage, rend (AP), ward saves (invulnerable saves) and all damage saves including mws (Feel no Pain) in 40k. Porting it wholesale over would have incredibly deep implications though. Its just my preference when playing the two systems: less total sources of Mws more and higher rend (without invuln saves, they feel like mws) ward saves ignore rend but mws go through no splash/carry over damage (except for mws) feel no pain saves

4-7 Plaguebearers or Plaguedrones iirc

On paper I prefer Kroak & Castellant but my actual testing (mentioned above) is limited this meta cycle. /Edit, okay Kroak for sure going to go out of ally points range with fancy new kit and scroll

Hallo! I think that there are a few things I'd like to try (once I play again) ally wise from Lumineth book. However, I am also still leaning towards waiting on a reboot or a new SC tome before I delve in more and paint more non-SC units. So my input would be theory only and non-tested and I do so prefer TESTED input and decisions. So what you can do is check out all those tools available to see what those of us who are actively building lists in the current meta are taking, like: https://aoslistbot.herokuapp.com/analyzer/ & https://aosreminders.com/stats And ofc the Honest Wargamers stats & or rundowns: https://thehonestwargamer.com/age-of-sigmar-tts-stats-15-2-21/ https://thehonestwargamer.com/aos-list-rundowns/faction/stormcast-eternals/ Note: Even if some of those are out of date due to the pandemic.

Probably needs some work I liked the historical list finder mostly

FYI not sure who has seen this or not but this is super cool: https://aoslistbot.herokuapp.com/analyzer/ Input starcast like lists and you see mine, @Marcvs results - other flag fliers. Kroakcast gets a B+ rating in the tool, in my experience that sounds about right

Incantor is always better unless your list has some other really good ideas that need points that make the exorcist the best caster choice. They were great when the scroll was introduced - then most other releases caught up (in a big way). So they're not a scroll that wins matches alone. If you want to try them, the ones on kittys have the speed you need but are dearer. Most SC lists (now) don't have a lot of room for pointsinks (400+ point units) after the essential tools. Starcast takes 2 or 3 off the bat so you're left with little to spend. There IS that starkitty list though, I've just not tried it myself. Depending on what I face, I shield the dragons with my libs (in which case they can't be in the sky) or my libs with my dragons (so they can be). You'll get a feel for which your opponent will target. If they can't easily kill a Stardrake they will look to the Prime and your objective cappers. I usually have the LCoSD on the field to get LC buff - watch for indicators your opponent may take the first round. Even if it opens you up to a double turn quickly, Starcast loves to go first. "Late game" capping is coming down r3 (can't come down 4 or 5) and then you've to 'move' onto objectives in some cases so they don't cap on the way down unless maybe they find a way to move after setup. Matchup dependent again but often yes, or turn 1. The comet is very nice and gains value the longer he can use it. There are edge cases for using the prime as a r3 assassin. I think I wrote in my rundown I've never left him off to r4 or 5 even with the bonus to attacks. R3 is usually enough to take out a bunch of models in melee - if chip damage won't cut it. That's the prime's biggest strength in the list, for those matchups where you don't favour chip damage (I really missed him in one of my last tournament games where I faced terrorgheists, that said, I don't think he'd have gotten to swung first there anyway at that stage of the "activation wars" so its kind of a moot point). One thing I think is important to emphasise is: That's the key takeaway with Starcast right now I think, but a new book is due any month now, covid/brexit and chaos depending I am pretty confident that Starcast as a playstyle will still be viable with a new book but I believe that they shouldn't buff the core concept (chip mw damage without counter play) because of how non-interactive it is. I would rather have them buff the baseline SC units so starcast becomes a way to add a bit of reach and flexibility to a hammer list or gives long reach to a static anvil type list.

Hey! So you'd have base 3x5 libs, LCoSD, Prime, Lord castellant, slann, LA on gryph charger - I'd think on the gryph charger even with extra cost. On foot he won't get where he needs to be and you'd be wiser taking Lord Exorcist (just for comet casting) - and a comet. 250 points over then. Given you mention libs, and given Starcast style can feel like a lot of fiddly combos or moving parts when you pick it up, you might just go for 5x 5 libs (not big blocks maybe as they are not at all brave despite the lore). Or 4x5 and some aetherwings. There's actually a lot to do with 250. It depends on what you've got models wise and what you're willing to invest money and paint time wise before a new book - which I have to believe is due this year. Something thats just for sitting on objectives and letting you have more deployed in the stars (as more can be on the field). If you test that out and feel youre missing something, I'd consider looking at some of the 'pure' starcast lists with 3x5 libs. If you already feel like you don't want to run so many bodies, you could do Knight Heraldor for terrain-tootin'. Also helps with mobility of some pieces allowing running and charging for the drake. The Prime scepter, rain of stars, slann with comets call and the everblaze comet is already pretty potent though. There are some pinned lists in the first post -including a 6 dracoline build (Starkitties). I've got some details for how you might think when deploying/ playing in my honestwargamer list rundowns buuut Ive not played much AoS with the pandemic etc for the past year so I am not sure of some of the nuances of the current meta. @Marcvs has been very active on TTS though so has great, current tips.

Hi! Sorry I missed this, have been a bit busy. My recommendation would be that you've a lot of casters there and no castellant. Lack of bodies is normal for Starcast so that's not necessarily a problem - though when you start playing it it can be unforgiving. Extra bodies as a cushion as you move towards a more "herocast" character heavy list is not a bad idea. LAoGC is decent healing but Id not take him and an exorcist I think (with Kroak in the mix). Maybe drop him for more libs. LCoD is also cool but I'd argue for a more efficient choice - increased bodies or a Lord Castellant (makes LCoSD v strong). It all depends on what you've painted and what you meet tbh - If you're starting and have only so much bought and painted you would get a feel for the style with this list. You may meet some nasty counter and feel out-gunned but maybe you'll get off some nice mw combos A lot of folks are guilty of closely guarding the strongest choices in a faction when ppl ask for army tips, I think that if you know your own army and playtest as much as you can you'll potentially do better than taking what folks tell you to. Alternatively, you'll experience firsthand what weaknesses you need to shore up and move towards more efficient choices yourself. Good luck!

interesting, I played a tight game against a bridge and sisters army (I had 2 dragons and prime) 1 yr ago so not sure how an irondrakes version would differ.

Thinking about it: High rend often goes with high damage so you would be mitigating the risk to some extent there. Lower rend or Higher rend with damage 1 isn't something you worry about (plate of perfect perfection is shoring up your strengths rather than weaknesses in that sense - a bit) Full rrs also probably help on the charge when you're only on +1. So I actually kinda like it, but you'd need to test it. Or run the math properly. Which I am not great at Was the tournament blocking the new realm artefacts? If so then I think its as good as any Stormcast only choice. When blocked from plate of perfect protection I find myself gravitating to Mirror shield but in those matches with no shooting facing you you're effectively taking no artefact.

I like this, it's a pretty sweet spot between the big characters and a few extra units. Is it legit to use the Slann CA to give the Skinks fly? That's also cool. I have the models to try this out and might! When covid lets up Practically I find TTS time hard to allocate - its weird that at the computer you really notice that a game takes a looong time but at the table it feels like time flies by.

Yeah I think the juice has been fully squeezed from the SC tome but its how many years old now? 2? Strongest contrast for me is that I dabble a lot in 40k now and Space Marines (poster boys there) went from very strong to still strong between editions. Ofc they are still 1st codex/tome and will suffer in that respect... but I don't think SCE ever had the same level of dominance. I think the problem is the ruleset - it's harsher on an elite infantry "can shoot/can fight" army

That said, there's a lot going for double activation of the drakes once in combat. You trigger stormwinged with pile in and then eat and attack (the attacking part is meh). Eating 4 times in your round is absolutely brutal though. I have tried that approach once - without Staunch which I sorely missed and without Kroak so I was gasping for command points. Im not sure what hero you'd try to keep staunch as long as possible (and keep the general in range of those that want the buff).

I think the strongest use would be the already mentioned tough CoS general on a big base in a stormhost so you can circumvent the stormhost trait and take Staunch Defender. But I feel like that is probably getting FAQd - not because it's strong but because it's too convoluted to be intentional.

Big if true.

I think there is probably a lot of unintended stuff here because GW often doesnt think this kind of mixing through.

aw man, I got my hopes up for a Flagellant battleline for a moment there (Human general required - LCoSD is Human keyword) but its strictly in a Cities of Sigmar army.

^Modern starcast core at the moment leaves 420 points over right (skipping castellant). For those points I feel like the following are interesting choices: 40 x Flagellants (plus 140 pts over) - I like the idea of these. Maybe a list with 2 x 40. Chaff that the opponent has to be careful about killing. 30 x Phoenix Guard - very solid choice 20 x Sisters of the Watch (plus 100 pts over)- Before Lumineth these were highly regarded, how are they now? How would you reach a foe with them without (see next suggestion): 20 x Sisters of the Watch with a Soulscream bridge (this combo is however, stronger in a CoS Hallowheart build) ... Tbh there are a lot of units that are really interesting but, practically, what do you do with them? What is more than interesting, what's good. Lists can be improved in two ways - 'make more strong' vs. 'make less weak'. Make less weak Lack of bodies is a starcast weakness because why? Because bodies are for capping objectives and screening. Obj capping I truly believe, is still best left to Libs. There is always more than 1 objective so one big unit (a restriction that 1 CoS in 4 units imposes) isn't always fantastic. Ofc, having one solidly held obj is pretty good. Screening is a starcast weakness. Why? Because the meta (even more so now than when I was very active) is a mobile, shooty, alpha striking hell Screening is something I'm personally interested in - that's what I've always felt I needed help with when setting up starcast. When I have to choose to sacrifice the models I want to cap objs with and earn points with versus the models that the enemy is threatened by then I'm in a bad spot for the matchup. Expendable units are good. Make more strong If you take any of the shooty options you start to feel like maybe you should just go for another SC list instead of painting 20-30 strong CoS shooting models. It's also a meta where if you give up first turn you are in trouble (see screening) and a big shooty unit is probably an easier target than your stardrake to a multitude of ranged threats. More magic is cool. Kroak, Drakes, Comet and, say, the Celestial Hurricanum with Mage - now that's some hot stuff there. You will definitely make more strong but I think you will simply win the matchups you'd win harder and still lose the matchups you would lose. My preferred test Ok, not that I've got my finger on the pulse or anything, but with my analysis, the best unit I think is 40 Flagellants. Maybe 40 + 20. 2 x 40 seems a stretch points wise... You'd stretch them out - midfield or back. Block areas for enemies to deploy. You'd want them to be in combat to die (so their mws do somethin) but in reality you probably won't meet many combat armies so you're really looking for the cheapest unit that you can max out in numbers so you can block board space. Ideally for that you'd want small units of 10 but the 1 in 4 limitation hinders that for Starcast (when you, I think, can take max 2 CoS units). And you lose the max unit pts reduction. I'd have the runner up unit (in Starcast - probably not for other SC lists) as Phoenix guard. What do folks think?