Sabotage!

So, I want to apologize ahead of time, because I'm sure this has been asked before buy I have not seen it. The old Cities of Sigmar rules prohibited you to running units from only certain factions in your list (for example Anvilguard could only run Darkling Covens, Scourge Privateers, Freeguild, Dispossessed, etc). Are those restrictions still in place? I've seen lists for armies using units that don't seem to match with the old unit restrictions. Or is it you can take anything for any city, just the city specific bonuses tend to be better for certain units (Greywater Fastness for Shooting, Hallowheart for Magic, etc)? I ask because I am looking at possibly starting an army later this year and wanted to consider what city would be best for me.

That's a good point. I don't think they would need to go full ham on them, just do a few things like make the ogre hit like a normal ogre, etc. The factions unique rules for each warband are pretty flavorful and I think that's really all you need for special rules. I certainly wouldn't want them like some of the Underworlds warscrolls.

I imagine if the plan is to use the Warcry tribes as the backbone of the new StD book (which I think would be pretty cool if they wrapped them, Everchosen, all the newer Chaos kits, and a newer more elite Chaos Warriors kit into a book), they will have Warscrolls that cost a varying degree of points, be further differentiated, and be a bit more thought out. For example the Ogre in the Iron Golems won't just have 3 wounds, but will have separate weapon profiles, etc. I'm pretty sure the current scrolls for the Warcry bands were just put out quickly so people could start using their models in AoS.

All this talk about the Warcry bands and STD gets me thinking STD are almost certainly not this year. I don't imagine GW will release the other two Warcry bands until late October o November, and they will most certainly be in a new STD book.

It's true. I would be happy with just a book, though I like to see the Warcry bands warscrolls fully fleshed out if they go that case. I do think Everchosen and Darkoath will be merged into the STD book though. I imagine there will be some new models...Varangard on foot (and the finecast Chosen will be dropped) and a box of Darkoath similar to the Underworlds ones (and the goofy old marauders will be drooped). I would like a Chaos Warrior update but don't see it happening. Aside from that though the model range for STD is pretty good.

Oh yeah, that makes sense. I think Tzeentch needs a 2.0 book. I imagine STD will be a fairly major release, and with the Boneheads coming out this year, I don't think STD would make a lot of sense.

Oh, I must have missed that. That's awesome to hear. It would be cool to see STD get a book finally. There was a rumor engine picture that looked kind of like a Varangard gauntlet, so I suppose it could be related. Though with all the new models for AoS this year (not sure if Ogres are getting anything other than the hero....but still) it makes me wonder if they would get anything new.

Promised Chaos tome? Wasn't that Hedonites of Slaanesh? I haven't been following AoS releases super closely so I could be mistaken. I bet the next two Warhammer Underworlds expansions (Goblins and Ghouls) will be released a couple weeks after Beastgrave, that's what was done with Shadespire and Nightvault. I would say it's almost certain we will get The Spire Tyrants and Disciples of the Flame (don't recall the name) for Warcry before the year is over, it looks like they had a few previews in the rumor engine, they are featured in the Warcry book and several people got pins featuring their faction icon when ordering directly from GW in the weeks leading up to Warcry's release. So it seems like we will be getting a lot of stuff in these last fees months.

I have a feeling it will probably be like Carrion Empire with a new hero for the Undead and one for Ogres and then some old kits.

I wasn't trying to sound like I didn't appreciate what was shown, and I agree Destruction needed some love. It's more so we've already seen all the Warcry stuff (which is great and it's the most excited I've been about a GW product since BB came back), I guess I was just shocked at how few "new things" they previewed. A couple compilation Battletomes, a couple silhouettes of some Underworlds stuff, and a single new model (well unless you count Gortek) is just odd. I would have thought we would have seen at least the Warbands from the new Underworlds starter. I'm just disappointed we didn't see more new models. That unmasked Unmade is fantastic, and I hope it's an option in the kit.

I have to say, this was a very disappointing Open Day. Both the Battletomes are neat (especially now that Orruks will have more than 3 units, and the Free Peoples won't be split into 40 two model factions.) But the reveals otherwise we're next to nothing. The Ogre is cool, and I guess someone will want a Gortek mini, but really two models revealed at THE Open Day for one of your flagship games? Very underwhelming. They could have at least shown off the two Warbands they showed silhouettes of. Yeah for Beastmen in Underworlds at least.

Yeah, I'm not really sure on the Old World, I think I may have heard of one or two. I don't know too much about the AoS fluff, so I'm not to certain. I could definitely see the too dumb to care angle, haha.

I know it's somewhat off topic, but I hope we see a Chaos Orruk in one of the next factions. I'm not even sure if Orruks in AoS can turn to Chaos (I don't see why not if Aelves and Duardin can). I imagine it wouldn't be that hard to convince one. "Hey, your favorite things are 'mashin' heads and stompin' foes right? Guess what? Mine Too!" Chaos Warrior to future Chaos Orruk.

If GW does show the two other Warbands this weekend that would be NUTS (in a good way), I would be over the moon with how much initial support the game is getting. Currently I imagine we will get the Starter and the Cypher Lords on release day, followed by one more in two weeks, and the last two mid-September. If we see the other two warbands at open day I imagine we will get them by the end of the year (though I doubt we will see them on Open Day).

I had a similar reaction Dreadmund, I was really looking forward to this and after glancing through the rules it looks like a lot of fun and checks all my boxes. Obviously I haven't seen the complete rules, but it appears that I will not be disappointed! I will also be preording as soon as possible.

I'm really digging everything about this game......except the injury table. Fortunately it isn't a huge thing for me, but I would have liked a bit more granularity with it, it didn't need to be like BB or Necromunda though. I quickly browsed through the rules and so far I'm very favorable towards them.

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. I will second your comment about GW's customer service. They have always been exceptional in my experience with them, and have been some of the best customer service interaction I have ever had across all aspects of my life. This is coming from a guy who absolutely hated GW during 40k 6th and 7th also. Doing things like releasing "Codex: Scions" for fifty USD with a two alternate builds of a new transport, two alternate builds of a new infantry unit, and two rehashed units and calling it a codex. Or Chaos needing 4 books to play their army. Or trying to sue small artists out of existence for having a comic about Heinlein style space marines. Yet, even during this period, their custom service was still impeccable. I don't buy a lot directly from GW (I'm lucky to have a LGS that has great customer service and I really enjoy), unless they have something direct only that I really want, but my experiences have always been good.

That's more than a bit subjective don't you think? The background for these groups is much more interesting than the generic Chaos Warriors/ Marauders from what we've seen, and all the models are nice sculpts. There are a few of the new factions that aesthetically don't appeal to me, but objectively are still well made models. And besides the two new warbands might look terrible ( though I seriously doubt this). Just because the current warbands aren't generic Chaos Warriors, doesn't make them "lame."

ADB is just making a cheeky joke, it's just in his nature, it's part of why a lot of people enjoy his sense of humor (myself included). I wouldn't let it worry you.

Man, I know this is going to sound underwhelming......but just plain Order humans (maybe with allied normal dwarfs). I mean, given them a cool AoS spin, but I want to see the normal folk who do the majority of the fighting across the realms against the incursions of Chaos, Death, and Destruction. I would really like if they went for the cool gold armored gladiator aesthetic shown the big Order vs. Chaos art piece that functions as the banner of Warscroll Builder, but In the end I'm just really curious to see what these folks look like. My personal take on the faction would be a well armored and armored faction of humans with some dwarf support. Unit wise: Battleline infantry (Human heavy infantry unit, Sword or spear and shield) Battleline militia (poorly armored and equipped humans that are very cheap) Battleline riflemen (Armored humans with dwarf built rifles) Elite Infantry (Human infantry with a focus on being defensive and being hard to move, maybe some sort of bodyguard rule for characters near by. Two handed weapon or Sword and Shield options) A new dual build artillery kit A dual build golem/robot kit (dwarf engineering of course) A dual build walker kit with human and dwarf crew A spattering of characters Add in the old Dispossessed and dwarf Ironweld stuff and I'd call it a Battletome. But that's just off the cuff. I'd really just be happy to see what the average fighting force of the realms looks like. As much as I like the old Empire stuff, 16th century Germans just look out of place next to all the craziness that come with the new AoS factions.

I saw someone mention the Fkeah Wound mechanic and how it is kind of clunky in KT (and I agree with this statement). It looks like Warcry is skipping that whole thing with models having various wounds and weapons having different amounts of damage (which sounds much better to me).

That's definitely an option you can take, but I at least feel that the AoS skirmish rules are extremely lacking. Yes, you can slot in different leader abilities from battletomes and do the same with artifacts and what not, but the game just doesn't offer much in terms of content or anything exciting. AoS works much better as a game played between armies, because that was what it was meant for. Kill Team is a pretty good skirmish rules set because it was specifically designed to work at a small levle.

I think they are all really great in their own way. Personally the only ones I am not a fan of are the Cypher Lords, not to say they aren't really nice models, they just don't appeal to what I like aesthetically (the plumes are too over the top for me). It looks like I'm in the minority but my favorites are the Iron Golems and the Unmade. I voted for the Iron Golems because I love their brutal looking cudgels and really enjoy the design of their armor. I appreciate how "grimdark" the Unmade are. You really get the sense they are devoted Chaos worshipers. If I had to rank them: 1. Iron Golems 2. Unmade 3. Splintered Fang 4. Corvus Cabal 5. Untamed Beasts 6. Cypher Lords GW really knocked the design and aesthetics of the models out of the park though. Each warband has a very different vibe to it and is easily distinguishable from the others.

Personally I'm very excited for both the last Warcry reveal tomorrow and I'm also looking forward to the Underworlds preview next week. I've been in the hobby for about 20 years now, and in the 15 or so I've known of Hastings ( mostly back from when I used Warseer), they have generally been very reliable. So I think their is a good chance the list that they provided is mostly correct. And it doesn't look to bad. I would love to see FEC or new Free Peoples models (how cool would a Sigmarite Witch Hunter and retinue be?). I also would really like to see some Undivided Chaos Warriors, because I would love to see them made to GW's current abilities. Maybe they could be two Chosen or Varangard on foot and be the first two model warband? I don't think we will see this though, GW has seemed to really doubled down on all god specific stuff. All the non god devoted new Chaos stuff is mostly just barbarians (soon to be very interesting barbarians thanks to Warcry). I also would like to see no new Stormcast. I really like them and all, but I'd rather see an Order Warband without representation in the game get something. DoK, IDK, Seraphon, Free Peoples, Dispossessed......lots of options.

I would be absolutely blown away If GW released a complete game (the starter and all supported factions/ terrain/ accessories/etc.) on day one, but I would also be exceedingly happy about it. I imagine we will get the Starter, The Iron Golems, The Untamed Beasts, the terrain, and the wild monsters on day one. I think two weeks later they will release The Splintered Fang and the Corvus Cabal, and two weeks from then they will release the Death dudes and the last warband. Which I would be very happy with. I think FW (and likely GW) may have learned from Necromunda how not to launch a game. People were really excited for it in my area and when it released played it a lot for a couple weeks......then the lack of faction options got old. The huge lag time on factions and drip feeding of the rules made it so everyone stopped playing and got rid of their stuff over the next few months. It's still a great game at it's core, and now with the combined rules books and all the house gangs out I bet a lot of fun can be had, but releasing a game with little content and not supporting it for a a minimum of three months is not good for the health of a new game. The Death warband look fantastic and are quite possibly the most "grimdark" models GW has ever made. So far I'm really digging all the Warbands and their aesthetics, each of them looks very unique. I'm really hoping the rules are good, because for all intents and purposes this game is almost if GW asked me to write a list of things I want in a game and they would make it (small table footprint, relatively quick game play, unique factions with a nontypical setting, campaign rules).