PlasticCraic

Yeah I was thinking that. Kind of like how BCR have a Mongolian raiders look, with Scandic-style naming. It's not unusual for them to have element A from the world around us, fused with element B from the world around us, fused with some originality and craziness, so the whole thing has identifiable influences but still is unique and more than the sum of its parts. And I can echo the thoughts of others that I absolutely love the storybook angle!

Not knowing much about Knights: would expensive models translate into an expensive army? I know in AOS it's not generally the Big Things armies that are expensive to collect: FEC and BCR are actually (relatively) super cheap to buy into. It's large numbers of expensive troops that tends to make an army prohibitive (see: Witch Aelves, Hearthguard). I wouldn't be shocked if a 2000 point army looks something like: Bonegrinder-sized dude with King Brodd and generic Gargant King options. Let's say 460-520 points (Maw Krusha / Gordrakk) and GUO / KOS price tag of AUD 230. You'll probably take one or the other in your army. New Gargants, either as 3 options in one kit or three separate kits. Say 320 - 400 points (Thundertusk / Stonehorn level), coming in at AUD 180 ish (similar to a KO Ironclad / Idoneth turtle). Let's say you're taking 3 of these, because New Toys. Then you've got the good old Aleguzzler. I'd love to see them packed up in 2s again, because they are expensive for what they are, but most likely we'll be asked to pay the current price of AUD 83. Let's err on the side of caution and say he gets better rules for the same 160 points. You'll probably only have room to fit in a couple of these once you've taken all of the above. Maybe a Battalion, maybe an extra Aleguzzler. I've got that coming in between AUD 900 and AUD 1000 for a 2000 point army, plus the book and any terrain, less any Allies you put in there. Which is obviously a lot of money, but would probably be at or below the median for an AOS army I would think? Especially if you already have a couple of Aleguzzlers sitting on your shelf, ready to join the fray. PS if I was going to make a completely unfounded prediction, maybe the competitive build looks nothing like that, and it's like 2 of whichever new Hero is the best, and about 10 Aleguzzlers to spam their amazing new rules and Battalion 🤣

Yep, there's been a few times when you've talked Gargants on here, and also given the Snotlings like me an education on their WHFB rules. I personally had the 4th ed starter box and kind of collected the models without playing (I was too young really), then took a 20-year break until AOS dropped in 2015. I remember the old black and white fallen Giant template in there, and at the time I saw owning one as an unimaginable luxury. The fact that they were part of Orcs and Goblins was part of why I'm still an orc guy. For me they're iconic because of that, and I really hope they retain some kind of falling down mechanic (I'm sure they will), without it being crippling like the current one. Also in case anyone was wondering, I've had a Gargant die (I lose the roll off) and fall into a second Gargant and kill him (I lose the roll off) and fall into an Arachnarok Spider and kill him. Domino Rally right through the heart of my army 😬

Mate I'm absolutely rapt for you. I know from chatting on this forum over the last year or two how much Giants mean to you. I'm super excited too; but I know they really are your "thing". I honestly can't believe it's happening. Hats off to them hey.

What I'd personally like to see moreso than new Gods, is cross-pollination of the races between Gods they worship, and the GA that they sit in. Specifically we are still trapped by a one-to-one mapping of old WHFB armies to Grand Alliances. If you were some kind of Elf in the old game, you have to be Order in this one, even if it's a completely new army. That's way too narrow-minded. For example it's established in the lore that there are humans in Ghur who worship Gorkamorka and paint themselves in green warpaint. Let's see them explored on the tabletop. Similarly, Death could have Aspirant Vampires: mortal humans who idolise Vampires, and serve them in the hope of being turned. If it was still April 1st I could have move on to Duardin stilt-walkers who follow a Cult of Behemat, but you get the point 🙂

Yep there's loads. Behemat and Ymnog are Gods in their own right to Gargants (which we'll hopefully find out more about soon). Firebellies worship the Suneater aspect of Gorkamorka. Like you said, the Bad Moon is an entirely separate, physically present deity that travels around the Realms. Destruction is not lacking in volume of things to worship, and the supremacy of Gorkamorka has not been an impediment to the creation of yet more in the setting.

That's exactly where the Bonegrinder sits currently. He's actually bigger than Archaon, other than the wings pointing upwards. I really hope we find out more this weekend 🙂

They all worship Gork (and possibly Mork).

Boing Boing

Really interesting topic. I guess you could put Sharks in the mix, because it's one of the few warscrolls where GW has been bold enough to points-drop a cool but underpowered unit into usefulness, rather than making them wait for a new book. On the Destruction side, it's mainly missed opportunities moreso than truly bad units: - Ironguts still lack a proper Warscroll ability. Their "Down to the Ironguts" ability was almost a meme, regularly held up as a shining example of terrible rules that would never make it to print in a modern Battletome. Awkward. - Brutes are squeezed out between Ardboyz and Gore Gruntas. Taking away the Klaw and rend -2 simultaneously removed a lot of their character and usefulness. Similarly their Duff Up Da Big Thing rule is pretty weak now, especially since this unit already hits on 3s and already has access to multiple +1s to Hit. Overall they just lack "something" to make them into the combat blender they need to be, in order for them to have a true role. What you are left with is a unit that is painfully slow and cripplingly vulnerable to Battleshock, so why would you bother when they only have the same attack profile as your other Battleline? But neither of those is truly bad - in fact they're quite good, just short of what they could have been. It's Gnoblars that have to be in with a shout for worst unit in the game. They are unapologetic trash, with zero combat output, terrible durability (1 wound on a 6+ save) and abysmal bravery. Absolute garbage in every aspect. But you know what? You still see them in lists, and rightly so. Every army can use some disposable trash, especially when it's cheap trash (5 points per wound) and just as importantly, comes on 25mm bases. Screening and capping Objectives is what they bring, so even the humble Gnoblar has an important role. And that role is wearing a Deathstar to the face, so your proper units can hit back harder.

It's a very sad situation, I'm sorry for anyone who was looking forward to this, worked on new armies, or is out of pocket for travel and accomodation. Excellent points by @Athrawes which hopefully helps people understand why it was the right decision. But it's a real shame.

Here's that write-up on the Summer Smash tournament win for those interested: https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/03/04/interview-with-joel-graham-winner-of-summer-smash/

I like it! Same size base, obvious what it's meant to be, I'd be happy to play against it.

Yeah 100% I think that could work, although it would porbably leave you light in other areas. I have ran a Maw Krusha and Rogue Idol list myself and it was great fun, and no joke. Like you touched on, you will make sacrifices elsewhere to achieve it, but I'm definitely interested to see any lists you come up with on that theme. Yeah I think he's done you there! The core rules specify that you allocate wounds to a model until it is slain, and then stop. So I'd have said he can't roll more bounce-back dice than there are wounds in the unit? But that's also a good illustration of why I find the Arrow Boys so hard to drop. Mathematically, their output is less efficient than the stuff they are competing with, but there are quite a few cases floating around where you'd really prefer to ping away rather than fight! Yep, always worth noting that there are exceptions to any rule! And @Garuun is the person to speak to, he rolled over Changehost not once, but twice on his way to the podium with Big Waaagh (and hopefully will be writing a guest piece for the blog about his experience).

If you take a look at the GA Destruction Errata, you should see it in there bud - although it's also showing the updated Warscroll ("Oct 2019") on the app for me?

Hi @Bloodgut I'm running the Warboss with Waaagh Banner (if you click the link to my blog you'll see I recently podiumed with him). However you are unfortunately also missing something. Specifically, he has a new updated Warscroll, which moved him to wholly withins (and stopped you spamming the Command Ability). But on the plus side, the timing of the CA is now at any point in either player's combat phase. Beyond that, he's not really competing with the Megaboss for his CA. His CA is definitely much better than the Megaboss, especially in Big Waaagh. The reason the Megaboss still sees play despite that, is for backdoor access to Mighty Destroyers, via the Brutish Cunning Command Trait. For that reason, I run both Bosses in my own Big Waaagh currently. CPs are scarce in this army and he's CP thirsty. If you're running Bonesplitterz in there, you'll probably need some for IP for example. I do also think that a lot of people don't own the model / can't be bothered converting, and he's probably just not on some people's radars. But I do agree that he's really good despite that, and I do run him competitively myself. Although I'll be honest, he's right on the cusp of being kept in the army or not.

I think the equation changes slightly in pure IJ (including pure IJ running under a Big Waaagh). Specifically you don't have a Prophet with stacking +1s to cast on his modifiable horde-clearer, and you don't have other BS units (30x Stikka boyz) to benefit from Wardokk spells and dances. So in that situation I think they are more like a true Rogue Idol tax, and he starts to price himself out of the equation. So roughly speaking I'd say a Maw Krusha is more efficient in pure / mostly IJ lists (under either allegiance), but the Rogue Idol can compete with him in truly mixed Big Waaagh armies. I'm still interested to see Maw Krusha Big Waaagh lists with mixed forces though - the Wardokk and Stikka boyz are so damn efficient, they are worth slotting in with or without a Rogue Idol in my opinion.

Agreed on point 1) to an extent What can make the whole thing work is if you craft a list with cross-synergies. And what I meant by that is, when you have other uses for the Megaboss and Wardokk, they are not simply a sunk cost. Specifically, I would always have a shield wall of 30 Savage Orruks. They also benefit hugely from the Wardokk +2 to save combo, and in the early rounds I'd be more likely to juice them up than the RI. He also generates a Waaagh point every turn. He also jacks up the +1 to cast on your Prophet so you can blast through his Warscroll spell on a 10+. Pebbles also further enhances the Prophet. So with those cross-synergies, the 80 points is so much more than a Rogue Idol tax. The Megaboss is more of a tax, it's true. You can still get juice out of him beyond just giving Pebbles a Mighty D move: I always include Gore Gruntas in my lists, so they benefit too. He also has a slightly different role as a backfield support Hero (who can kick back a bit) that buffs people along with the Warchanter as they go forward in waves, whereas once your Maw Krusha goes off into to the wild blue yonder, he's up and away. But it's definitely fair to say that you wouldn't take him if you had a Maw Krusha with Brutish Cunning (unlike the Wardokk which I would argue you take anyway). So I think 550 vs 460 is the true points comparison, but it can still work if the rest of your list works in with it. For example the RI and Megaboss don't demand further investment (read: Ethereal Amulet) in the same way as a Maw Krusha, so that liberates a resource to use elsewhere to offset the extra cost. Also agreed on point 2) to an extent That's a big part of playing this list: once you fire him forward, you've played your ace. Timing is everything. Early turns he has value in buffing your wizards, and threatening every area of the board with that big move and hitting over the top of enemy screens. He's also a trap / deterrent that can hit over the top of your own screens and fight twice, i.e. you can shut down a whole area of the board from being charged by deploying him just behind your lines. You don't fling him out there until you're happy that he will have a game-defining impact. You've had 2 or 3 buffed magic phases out of him, he's got the 2+ save and flying move, and there is a crucial target within Mighty D move reach. That's not really a flaw though, as much as a playstyle. He's not a turn 1 rocket - he's a menace and buff piece early game, and a mid-game clincher.

By all accounts, this is fantastic. I've just ordered it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcs:_First_Blood

Thanks man! Yeah we smashed it, can't believe we took the whole podium between us! I just did a whole big write-up, check it out: https://plasticcraic.blog/2020/02/27/summer-smash-tournament-review-big-wins-for-the-big-waaagh/ Joel and Dalton will be doing interviews for the Blog too, hoping to get those published within the next week. I don't know if it counts as a surprise, but it was definitely a highlight when 6x Gore Gruntas wiped out 60 wounds from a 109 wound army in the first Battleround :-) And my biggest mistake was underestimating Stonehorns...(for me) it's one thing "knowing" they count as 10 models, but another thing to look at a table mid-game and assess them as such. I was lucky to get away with that one.

Thanks Kasper! Yeah it was a great result all round. At this event you picked your spells each round (!). Joel was using the Wardokk purely for save stacking. I took Breath on the Weirdnob every time. Partly cos it's the most important spell so I wanted the reroll, partly because if your opponent is just standing there waiting to be hit you can switch gears and put the banging 6s on instead. The Wardokk I switched between Brutal BS (mainly if Arrow Boys were going to need to be buffed), and Kunnin BS (if I wanted to stack saves). Depending on opponent and Battleplan. Dalton did the same I believe, but with an extra Wizard he took both BBS and KBS.

Yeah I've beaten them (and lost to them) with my Drakkfoot army. They don't reroll saves against shooting so that helps your cause. And I found that Pebbles could knock them on the head pretty effectively with that rend -2. It's not a bad matchup if you just whittle down their units to a few models then bang them on the head. For a real anti-OBR build, Ben Savva in the UK beats them every time with his Bonegrinz. Now he *is* Ben Savva, so there's that, but he is running a low drop Kopp Rukk build to achieve that.

Yeah I personally still like the Arrow Boys in builds like this. It's still a combat heavy army, so you're getting plenty of juice out of those +1s Quite often I'm glad to have a bit of damage before the combat phase, so I'd find it hard to drop them

Yep Savva is a superstar, but I think Ian Spink would strongly disagree that he's the only one! Rode those pigs all the way to your Masters 😃

How good is this book by the way. Big Waaagh with Ardfist, Big Waaagh combined arms approach with Pebbles, Big Waaagh we've not even talked about (I'm playing around with Wyvern and Teef Rukk builds for example). Ironsunz balanced lists, Ironsunz double Maw Krusha, counter charge shenanigans for days. Bloodtoofs toolkit lists that Marco is now throwing around, Bloodtoofs Alphastrike lists (still possible if you choose to go down that path). Choppas MSU Brutes lists, probably a lot more to explore in this Clan. Drakkfoot hard counters to meta armies, Bonegrinz pop 'n' block melee armies. Balanced Icebonez armies with 8" scouting moves and infinite movement pigs. I'm loving that #AOSLyf right now!