pnkdth

Not a huge fan of godhammer since it has severely impacted list diversity. Though I do enjoy trying to figure out "anti-meta"-lists, the challenge, and alternative ways of beating them. To that end, battle tactics and, every once in awhile, grand strategy allow you to beat through other means. I very much enough the new battalions because it has lead me to experiment more with different kinds of allegiances and sub-allegiances. Which also makes things more interesting trying to create new and, also, more lore/fluff lists. Doesn't mean I make purposefully bad lists just that I don't want to win with the same copy/pasted net-lists all the time. Gets old. I would like to see terrain having a bit more impact to make the smaller boards more interactive to navigate. All in all though, I like it. Once we get used to the new heroic/monster stuff it is just going to be something we do.

Great stuff. Looking forward to see more!

Yeah, noticed that too but it must have been a mistake since it seems it reverted back to the July FAQ.

Exactly. There are tons of services and channels out there that I'm not watching. It has nothing to do with me hating on them, I might even find lots of them very entertaining, but there's only so many hours in a day and I want to do more with my life than consume content. I am thrilled for anyone who finds out this was just what they are looking for but I do not feel obligated to fund GW's first few steps (and learning process) into providing a streaming service. For the same reason I choose not to pre-order games, never pay for early-access or games which clearly wants me to front money to test their unfinished product, and so on. More than anything, I wish people (in general) would stop talking about these things in a dichotomy of hater vs fanboy/girl. It creates a very toxic environment and it rarely actually represent how actual humans think and feel. We tend to get passionate about different things and similarly, react with varying degree of passion around certain issues. TL;DR: Time = Value. No one is entitled to yours.

THW said something about having two lists as a way to vary up the games. Testing if it would spice up the meta by not relying on one list to rule them all. Not sure about details but I'm assuming there are some rules making sure the lists aren't actually identical with minor changes.

I wasn't too hopeful or expected much from an AoS perspective. Most (all?) the previous animation channels and big battle report channels cover 40k. Even beyond that, assuming I was into 40k, when you divide the content up in all the different systems, factions and specialist games GW simply won't create enough content relevant to me. I'm also displeased with the direction GW is going so it was going to be a hard sell even if the content was relevant. I've not shut the door entirely on GW though, it might become better and more interesting to me as time goes on.

Speaking of LRL and, inevitably, NPE. What do you attribute to newness (and cursed rolling)? I thinking in like deployment or positioning to make their deep strike nonsense less oppressive next time. Maybe it is actually worth to bring in some cheapo units like untamed beasts (with their free pre-game move) from S2D just to keep the back field clear and/or make their frontal assault more annoying.

Every single one of the three top 10 list was a pure hedonite army. Not only that, they were also completely different lists. Heard there was another list who went 3-0 at an event recently but not sure what was in that list. As I detailed in the my previous post, building a hedonite list means you need to consider summoning before the game. Going in blind is, in my opinion, a mistake as you should also have an idea of what you will need to complement your game plan. In practical terms this means your initial list will be smaller but we're also unique in being able to bring in almost any unit or hero we want. Imagine how utterly broken we'd be if we could both field a solid army up front and utilise what's arguably the most powerful summoning mechanic in the game. To me there's a big difference between units which are 'nice to have' and 'must have.' A cheap screen is a 'nice to have' but if that evolves into a 'must have', either through meta or list-building, then you have a lot of options in BoC, S2D, etc. My point is, we have access to a lot of 'nice to have' if you feel you have to have them. Taking all of this into account it means we have a battletome which can produce a varied set of lists and still do well at the top tables. In addition, we do not need the help from other tomes or allies. We're not be triple S tier but evidently the battletome has some serious play AND it seems we've just scratched the surface.

You're trying to do too many things at the same time which means you end up with 280(!) points of endless spells, 1215 points of characters, which means you got 75% of your points spent before you even started to consider what you want to do with the rest of the army (how are you going to complete battle tactics, for example?). I think you need to ask yourself what you want to do with the list and go back to the drawing board. Most successful lists have a plan to establish a presence, generate DPs, and summoning in the appropriate units. Mostly because, like it or not, summoning is a large part in how we put pressure on the opponent and outmanoeuvre them in the later stages of the game. In concrete teams this means to drop all of the endless spells, add cogs, since it supplements both the epitome and synessa and her large choice of spells. Get more bodies in by dropping dexcessa and add in 5 more twinsouls to the existing units and some archers. Don't have a calculator here but if points them allow go for hellstriders (I prefer whips since they're good at being annoying) or allying some furies to disrupt your opponent's movement. TL;DR: Summoning tax means you gotta create a clear direction with the units you put on the table and build with a plan to summon in reinforcements. Not saying you should obsess over DPs but you should have a plan on how you start to take charge and put pressure on the opponent. Hedonites require you to think a bit different about your list than other armies since we bring stuff in later... Because while we pay a summoning tax the units brought in later are "free" and since you have a huge freedom in the type of unit you bring you it is a tactical tool. Personally, I prefer to plan in detail what to bring in and force my opponent to react/supplement my own plan. However, like Mike Tyson said, "everyone's got a plan till they get punched in the face", so it is nice to have a wide variety of summoning options. Assuming you got the models in the list you post you got a good start to make a varied set of lists though but I do no rate the current list highly (but I have been wrong before).

Now this is encouraging. Yet another, completely different hedonite list performing at the highest tables. So far we got a shooty one, a painbringery one, and a more "classic" hedonite list with slickblades doing well (or was there another too?). The former two, I suspect, made excellent use of DP (through shooting and tankiness, respectively). Hope the last few high placements starts a new trend or, at the very least, people in the tournament scene will stop talking about hedonites as if they're a total meme. Maybe we'll get some real representation and field-testing from now on.

Outstanding. Good range of of balanced options and viewpoints. Well done!

Signed and thanks for all the work you've put in!

"If successfully cast, pick 1 of the caster’s melee weapons." Is the dragon the caster? No. It does not target the unit or model itself. The warscroll also specifies who has what equipment and separate rider from mount. What's the case saying you can? Edit : and I just found out why "This model is a Wizard" making the entire thing "the caster."

At first glance, both Symbaresh/Myrmadesh are listed as Twinsouls/Twinsouls instead of Twinsouls/Painbringers. Will check again and see if I can spot anything.

I'm working on a concept which takes a balanced approach to Avengorii rather than full monster mash. The idea behind it being to utilise the Avengorii traits without sacrificing the benefits of SBGL (summoning and bodies on the board). I think this is where the Avengorii truly shine, getting the most from both worlds. It looks something like this; 1 venga boi, 1 vampire lord, 1 necro. 2 x 20 Grave Guard with big sticks, 10 skeletons, 10 dire wolves. 2 x Terrorgheist Bound spell: Emerald Lifeswarm Grave Guard in hunters, rest in battle regiment. Lands at 1995. Venga boi acts as support (rend aura) and counter-punch with 'eye for an eye.' Artefact doesn't really matter, pick whichever works for you. Vampire + necro boost GG. Skeletons and dire wolves act as screens. The geese do their thing and usually I'd pick the run and charge mutation. The opponent cannot lean back and focus on just dealing with monsters and I'm able to put a decent amount of bodies on the board. The GG and geese + venga boi being the muscle and I expect the -1 wound and being able to pop them back up to top bracket is going to hurt. Still tinkering with the list and it is enticing to get Mannfred in there but at the same time he eats away points for other monsters and the bulk of the army. Plus I really want to keep the list 'pure', so to speak. I can also see it with one big block of GG and free up points for more skeletons.

Not explaining points tends to invite misunderstandings though. Gaslighting or not, I think you're oversimplifying the issues people have with GW and minimising the changes we've seen. I've been around since 98' and I love the hobby and the passionate people in it. I don't like corporate nonsense and excuses for customer/community unfriendly practices and it is because GW is a business I'm boycotting their products. That is where I put the blame, squarely on the execs. If I don't change my behaviour, why should they? They are of course within their rights to act like this but as a customer it is also within my rights to take my business elsewhere (even if it just to make a point). I will still continue to participate in the hobby and be a positive force like I always have been. Mostly because I have seen GW bounce back from their overprotective ways. Lead by example, and all that. I just think it is important to talk about the hard issues too without ending up in the fanboi vs hater dichotomy. At the same I sympathise, having been a mod myself, the negative voices sometimes prevail. All in all, I'm hoping all of this leads to better communication between GW and content creators. Ideally, some sort of partnership program because online presence is both hugely beneficial for the community and GW as a business. If you get hooked on quality stuff outside of Warhammer+ then it usually leads to subscribing to Warhammer+ to continue feeding that fix (many video streaming services got 1 month free or free with commercials/limited content). My guess is that bigwigs at the top is testing how hard they can squeeze before the community reacts. TL;DR: There's multiple ways to move forward with the community + I do not think there's a clear line between people who are "fanboys" or "haters."

A content creator license has been put forth as a better way of dealing with this (by MajorKill, for example). It would have been a much better way to maintain a good relationship with creators (and the community at large) while not allowing more cynical creators to coast off the back of their IP. I would also say that TTS is far more than taking **** about GW. Any good or celebrated parody hinges upon a deep knowledge and love for the franchise. Which is reflected in the script and quality of the TTS project. Though there definitely are people who take any chance they can to jump on GW's throat but I do not think TTS slots in with those people.

Can we get to posting stuff about actual games again? If MWs and rend impacts your games, how? Against what/who? How did you deal with it? Any insights based on experience?

Yeah, without Twinsouls/Painbringers there's little reason to take a LoP. Making TS/PBs battleline and supporting them with his CA is his jam. As a single character with the role of a beatstick there are better options. That said, in an Invander's host the +2 wound trait makes him quite durable (7W 4+/5++)and compared to many other similar options (like vampire lords, wight kings, other "average" leaders) having 5 3/3+ D2 attacks is nice for consistency (as many of the other armies similar heroes have D3 wounds). You can then enhance his support rule with Icon of Infinite Success or combat with the rapier. Though since you run Godseekers, I think the Threnody Voicebox is an interesting option given how common big scary monsters who are also characters are now. Flat out removing one attack from multi-wound attacks can be huge (Durthu, VLoZD, GKoTG, etc). Speed-chaser is a good way to protect him from staying in bad fights and also for DP. On the other end, Enrapturing Circlet is lovely in controlling your opponent. The Godseeker +1 to charge is really nice for footslogging armies too! Especially for me since I'm expert in rolling 8s rather than 9s when not playing Godseekers. All in all, the LoP is a decent mid-level leader which either needs to be general to make TS/PB battleline or be there to support a unit of TS to justify his place in a list. Or... If you find a creative way from him to bolster another mortal unit with his CA.

I'd think be cool to see them as a chosen-type unit, i.e. buffing and inspiring mortals to new heights of excessive slaughter. I really like the idea @CeleFAZE put forth called Image of Divinity. Some ideas; Power from Pain: Pick a friendly hedonite unit within 12" in the combat phase. After all wounds have been allocated roll a dice for each wound, on a 5+ that unit takes a mortal wound. After the wounds have been resolved remove slain models as normal. Slaughter at any cost: As is. In addition, add one damage to each melee weapon on the charge. Once per battle round, if they successfully wipe out an enemy unit, they can immediately pile in 6" and fight. Pain is a gift: 5+ ward. No idea on cost.

If you work really hard, put in the hours, your boss might afford a new house or even go up into space. Inspiring and really makes breaking your back for ungrateful execs seem worth it. But maybe, one day, we can be one of those big wigs at the top... The latter part is why this keeps on going because there's no shortage of people willing (or out of desperation/basic needs) to fill the void left by the previous person who's had enough. Exec culture in general is about making ALL the money, not just great money, over a short period of time and then move on to a different company to earn MORE than all of the money. Rinse and repeat. Just follow the money and the pattern is always big wages and big bonuses for the execs and as little as possible to the rest of the workforce. GW didn't get to where they are by playing nice. Even the CDPR Red turned out to be an abusive employer who would have continued pushing their employees well past their breaking point if they could have gotten away with it. If a company that well regarded (well, used to be) hide that level of abuse and mismanagement... Lately, there's that lawsuit against Activision Blizzard. Which horrifying to read about but also good that there's real action being taken. I'm fully aware that GW is not a single entity and there's passionate (and apparently underpaid) people there. Calling stuff out which is abusive and/or unethical is still important, and it does not diminish the wonderful and creative stuff they create, because if we don't there's no reason at all for them to care. The more instances of where they do getting called out, the better.

I hear you and I agree it is annoying. I plan my summonings ahead of time and not care much about what my opponent is doing. Essentially use it to enhance my plans/list as opposed to a reactive simply because optimising summoning can go way out of hand (and I don't feel particularly excited about getting a massive daemon horde in addition simply to get the most out of summoning either). While you could optimise it more I'm also of the opinion that you should stick to your plan because otherwise you might end up playing catch-up and trying to put out fires as opposed to having your opponent react to you. Especially in an objective heavy edition.

I was thinking of battle tactics such as Broken Ranks, Take it down!, Monstrous Takeover, Slay the warlord giving extra victory points if completed by a monster (one requiring you to be a monster).

Yeah, the changes to the support heroes makes PBs even more enticing. Just sad to see the other gods (though Tzeentch got some cool stuff) have such lacklustre support heroes. But it is what it is, the eternal cheese wheel of the meta must ever roll down the hills, far and wide. Karios has gained enough from 3rd to justify his points IMO. In addition to the monster/character rules, he's also able to complete certain objectives for us.

Sometimes experience can be curse. Especially when there are small adjustments to the old ways as the brain likes to fill in old rules through force of habit. Which weirdly enough means that it is sometimes easier to learn an entirely new system. At the end of the day, it is just about finding the new groove of things. I feel quite comfortable that in a little while the sequencing of phases of 3rd edition will just be how I think about AoS. That said, I always bring cheat sheets to remember the important stuff, for even when I don't end up "needing" them it allows me to be more in the present which is good for the game and present company. So yeah, you're not alone!