Orkmann

Icebone piggie spam have a good damage potential, I think thats true even if you compare them to combat armies, and it' quite mobile as well. With the great hunters trait, and low drop list, I can see a lot of alpha potential which can surprise people. Alpha strike in general is not my play style at all, but I see a lot of lists lately which are not prepared for that. Also, even if I dont go for an alpha, the threat itself can force the opponent to deploy defensively. So I think there is plenty to try out even in a competitive setting. On the other hand, most of the moaning, at least on my end, was not about the Icebone power level, but how blend and boring the play becomes compared to v2. Bonesplitterz is my first and true orky love, so to speak, so I will play them no matter whay, but if someone asks me to recommend a fast combat army I dont see why I shouldnt say Ironjawz. It has all the damage, plus all sort of tricks from MT, the subfaction, not to mention the teleport. What I would like to add in the end is that if we could coalition or even just ally other orcs, that could change list building a lot. Let's see if that ever changes.

I believe the key question for IJ list building is how much drops you are aiming for. For me the conclusion for now is that it's time to move away from the "two artifacts meta" and take a double regiment for a two drop list instead. In aos2 Ironfist was such an auto include, that we get used to having two artifacts. When the amulet of destiny arrived in aos3, it was also an easy decision (for a two cabbage build) to have one tanky and one killy version with metalrippa. Since the rippa is gone however, I don't see an artifact (besides of the amulet) which would be an auto take. The armor is a solid choice, but it slows you done. The destroyer can only be put on the boss's 7 attack, rend 1 weapon, so I don't rate it very high. If I can kill stg with rend 1, I can kill that with piggies. If I were to take a second artifact, I'd probably take the arcane tome instead. The none general cabbage would get the amulet, and the general the tome with the +1 to wound spell and master of magic command trait for the reroll.

I really hope this will be faqd. I guess they dont want us to run cheap ardboy bline in kruleboyz, but it feels such a missed opportunity, esp that they have introduced the coalition rules for a bunch of other armies, which would be a good option imo.

Sadly it is not possible. If you select a kruleboyz army all of the orruk warclan units have to have the KRULEBOYZ keyword. You can only mix them in BW. This page is shown in the Man-Reads-Book video if you want to check. This situation also leads to some weird stuff, like the sloggoth cannot be part of a kruleboyz army as he lacks the keyword.

I think the issue is not the damage potential, but the delivery mechanism. IDK did well, but they have deep strike, fly (to get around screens), and the Hide tide, which made the msu build very strong. Also, they did not had to worry to much about shooting. On the note of IDK, maybe it is still what we have to do. Just spam boars like there is no tomorrow and go for a big old Alpha. 😁 Who knows? Maybe it works and this new tome is just an elaborate trick from GW to lure us to buy 60 piggies 😂 Allegiance: Bonesplitterz- Warclan: Icebone- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line- Triumphs:Savage Big Boss (65)*- General- Command Trait: Great HunterWurrgog Prophet (150)**- Artefact: Glowin' TattoozManiak Weirdnob (90)**10 x Savage Boarboys (280)*- Stikkas- Reinforced x 110 x Savage Boarboys (280)*- Stikkas- Reinforced x 15 x Savage Boarboys (140)*- Stikkas5 x Savage Boarboys (140)*- Stikkas5 x Savage Boarboys (140)*- Stikkas5 x Savage Boarboys (140)**- Stikkas5 x Savage Boarboys (140)**- Stikkas10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (290)**- Reinforced x 15 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (145)***Battle Regiment**Battle RegimentTotal: 2000Reinforced Units: 3 / 4Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 199Drops: 2

To clarify my position, In general I'm happy with the changes for IJ. But losing hero the phase fighting is still a blow. It happens so often that a hammer unit like the cabbage stuck in combat with lets say 3 chainrasps and having no hero phase damage output means he is wasting a turn.

I meant its wishful thinking on my part 😉

LOL, it's not really an argument, it is more like wishful thinking 😁 Letting go our beloved hero phase fighting is a tough process. Looking forward to see the faq.

In Aos2 the path to victory for BSP was to control the board, score high in the early rounds and try to tank as long as possible. This was best done with Bonegrinz, which had some very competitive builds, even in the last months of AoS2. The above strategy is not working anymore, due to the new battleplans and changes in the scoring (cant build up significant early lead) and also because the backbone of the army, the savage boyz went from 300 to 495 points, a 65% increase for a unit of 30. The question for the new tome is how can we adapt to AoS3 ? Icebone brings some extra damage, but even with that the damage output is average at best. What really hurts the army is that we have lost all our tricks, like the old Bonegrinz ability and Breath of Gorkamorka. The tactical repertoire has also shrunk with the arrowboyz nerf. The latter is still good in Bonegrinz, but without Icebone there is just no combat output left in the army. In the meantime we can still field a lot of wounds, but we hace lost a lot of tankyness, esp against shooting armies. Is there some new build which can still work? Maybe there is, no need to be too negative, but at this point I can't see it.

I'd find that very reasonable 😇

Mighty Destroyer and the BT ability might need an faq, but I can see an argument that if you make a pile in move, that automatically means you can attack as well: 12.3 COMBAT ATTACKS After you have made all of the pile-in moves for a unit, you must make combat attacks with each model in the unit that is within range of an enemy model

Oh I misread, though you can only take the tatoo on a savage boss. It's pretty nice on the wurrgog, but the waaagh works sadly in combat only. Still a great combo for sure 😁

I might just missed stg in the videos, but isnt it that we are just one happy faction now? So no need to even be allied. What is stopping me to have ardboy battlelines in a kruleboyz army for instance? Edit: so you cannot. that was described on the page which was missing in the facehammer video. So apparently the only way to mix the various orcs is Big Waaagh. That really sucks

A lot of stuff removed, but here and there there are buffs as well. I think Ironjawz get out of this new tome situation quite nicely - esp compared to the savage bros.

Just watched The Man Read Book review. I think we got hit very badly. Icebone might be a bit of a saving grace, but it's not looking good.

I always played Drakkfoot as it doesnt bypass mortal wound ignore abilities. This is somewhat debatable, but in case of these situations I prefer to take a reserved stand. It is also noteable that GW tend to be very specific when it comes to wounds and mortal wounds and there is also precedent to clearly differentiate btw wound and mortal wounds in relation to ignore abilities. See for instance the Haggnar command trait: "The Fanatical Faith battle trait (pg 61) negates a wound allocated to a friendly HAGG NAR DAUGHTERS OF KHAINE model on a 5+ instead of a 6" People were playing this wrong for a very long time, rolling the 5+ against mortals too (as the default 6+ works against mortals as well), but the faq clarified it works only against normal wounds. This is of course not giving a 100% clarificarion for the Drakkfoot ability but I'd say it is a quite good reference point.

What did the poor cabbage do to deserve such cruel fate as getting a 4+ armor save? 😁 For the record, I won't mind getting some of those big baddies nerfed, but can we please start with other's toys first? 😇

I find the teleport is still crucial, because even if you never get it off, it keeps your opponent honest with his deployment and movements. If you don't want the shaman you can just take the arcane tome on the chanter. Having both the shaman and the wizard chanter is good for redundancy, and it also gives you the option to cast mystic shield on the cabbage.

Having more cp in aos3 is great for IJ. Mighty Destroyer, Ironsunz CA, or even the choppaz one are great. Now you can also reliably spend a cp to have +1 to hit on your key units, so the gap btw IJ and BW output became smaller. For the cabbage it is esp true, as in some instances you can use Finest Hour offensively which is essentially giving you BW cabbage for a turn 🙂 In the end of the day I think it is up to your playstyle. Despite the fluff I found IJ is a tricky, tactical army, and the competitive strength is in the great CAs, which are allowing all sort of movement shenenigens. BW however is more solid, has better magic and the output is higher/more reliable. In my view BW is still better, but only if you bring in some savages to increase the wound count and a wardokk for the curse.

That's a good summary. But he is not an Orruk anymore, so he cant benefit from the poison (unless there is some tricks in the tome to arrange that). What's good however is that he gained the Totem keyword, so can issue CAs to himself. Another thing I found great is that his damage table is much more forgiving now. So overall it is an improvement I believe, but looks still a bit pricey compared to the top monster heroes.

The Ironsunz CA happens at the end of the enemy charge phase, which means the opponent is not eligible to do any during the charge phase ability like unleash hell.

Great collection of data! But could you please add the "a" and "!" to the Waaagh! Waagh just looks like a less angry and less loud version of the real deal, no wonder the winrate has dropped that much 😁

Tru dat! 😁 more more synergy to da boyz!

For me the most interesting question is how GW integrates the three version of orruks. In the last book there was literally zero synergy between IJ and BSP units and they even counted as allies to each other. What we have seen already is that there is an "Orruk warclans" keyword, so this could provide a great opportunity to bring the clans closer. If you could mix them outside of BW in any meaningful way it could somewhat make up for the limited roosters. What we have seen in the previews are all pointing to string keywords, sadly, but maybe there is more to it. While it's extremely unlikely but imagine if the weirdnob could teleport any orruks 😁

Im on team rippa, but I think the weird un is a better choice overall, because it gives you a big plus against the exact armies we usually struggle to deal with. The 4+ ignore is great, because it puts a lot of pressure onto your opponent whether he wants to target the cabbage, esp if you manage to negate the first one. The more decision you force into him to make, the higher chance hes making a mistake.