Ganigumo

I watched this and while it is nice to see some positivity I find a lot of the discussion was overly so. Much of the strong aspects discussed, like breaking unit coherency, only work if the opponent piles in first, and doesn't pile in with the grabs in mind. Some of the tactics they suggested were kicking an objective to the center, so you could group up your gargants over objectives and force the opponent to charge into multiple gargants. This seems like a decent strat but is heavily dependent on having space for multiple gargants to fit into, which often won't be the case with 5" bases. Another was to use a kraken eater with 2 mancrushers in front, turned sideways to create a power unit thats hard to deal with. But that costs 900 points... There were some good points about making careful charges onto the edges of units so they can't pile in much of the unit, although I worry about how much control we actually have over dictating the flow of battle that way. 10-12" move isn't slow, but it isn't particularly fast either

Butcher with balewind and Fleshcrave curse sitting on the pot can put out some serious damage, but I wouldn't take one unless I already had at least 1 slaughtermaster

Butcher with balewind and Fleshcrave curse sitting on the pot can put out some serious damage, but I wouldn't take one unless I already had at least 1 slaughtermaster

I suspect Slaanesh mortals will be like the Tzeentch mortal release, which was Kairic Acolytes, Tzaangors, Enlightened/Skyfires, and some characters. So it will probably be slaangors, some marauder equivalent unit, and one or two more elite kits, either better/mounted slaangors and/or a chaos warrior equivalent (although slaangors might fit that slot anyways) alongside a few characters. Makes me think that *MAYBE* khorne could get khornegors in shattered realms too? Although I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

Unlike other factions it doesn't feel as though sons of behemat can expand as naturally, it would basically just be new variants of gargant rather than a new concept. That said I wouldn't be surprised to see a Brodd model or upgrade kit at some point, or possibly a new smaller gargant to go alongside the mancrushers but I don't see it in the near future the same way lumineth is being set up for.

@Scotian Giant I realize that 160/480 1/4 really favors units of 4, but this army is DESPERATE for more units to be able to cover more of the board, and if you drop it to 160 you would rarely see units of gargants. This serves as a buff and makes for interesting decisions in listbuilding, do you take the bonus value of a fourth gargant? or do you take the separate units to force opponents to split fire and get more board control. Personally in lieu of a warscroll updates I think the same should be done for dankhold troggoths but this isn't the Gitz discussion...

What probably needs to happen for the army is for mancrushers to lose the horde discount, and just be 160 points, units of behemoths is a cool concept but you really need bodies I think. Dropping them down to 5 400 point slots, and opening up some potential allies would go a long way. I'm thinking maybe just allowing "Grot" keyword, which would allow some moonclan stuff and gnoblars. The army mostly suffers from the same issues as monsters in general though. Big bases are hard to maneuver, and they don't have the raw speed to make up for it (I have experience playing arachnaroks...), plus incredibly low model count and their damage is lower than you would expect for such expensive models. If I were to attempt to fix the army without changing warscrolls I would do this: Every Mega can take an artifact, for free Megas can just walk into combat, they don't need to charge Megas can retreat with no penalties, they just walk out of combat Increased Pile in distance for Megas Mega Gargants can end their normal move on top of models with 4(3?) or less wounds if they do so all models in that unit may make a 5"(4"?) move, any models under the base after the move are slain Mancrushers 160/480 unit size 1-4 Rules 5 and 6 would possibly make the army competitive to some extent, and 6 would definitely be a HUGE buff to stomper mobs, since you get extra gargants for free basically. 5 would need to play around with the restrictions, 130mm is 5.11 inches, so a 5" move would guarantee a few casualties in a vacuum, but could be devastating in a tight spot, since the models might not be able to move out of the way. I've already bought my army, and am gonna paint/play them regardless. I'll be happy as long as they don't get smashed in casual games, but it would be nice if they had a few tricks for competitive play.

@Tizianolol @Gwendar my thoughts on arcanite cabal is that its purpose is mostly as a cheap artifact and CP. The effect is fairly weak, but the heroes in the battalion are pretty useful and I know I've often found trouble fitting battalions in when listbuilding since most of our battalions require a heavy commitment to a certain style of play.

@RUNCMD Sadly I don't have any bestigors yet, or in my immediate future as I'll be starting work on my sons of behemat army. Although something that surprised me this game was how useful the banner was, since I had 5-6 wizards it put out some decent damage. I think getting the LoC on turn 1 is fine if you go first, since the first hero phase is usually low impact so you wouldnt lose out on much. The extra CP and battleshock immunity was very useful though. I could try some enlightened on disc as a hammer unit, I'm also considering working curseling and Grashrak into the list. If I switch subfactions I'll probably go factionless i think, and bring in a Fatemaster.

So I finally got a game in with my phantasmagoria of Fate guild of summoners and it went pretty poorly for me. The list: Allegiance: Tzeentch- Change Coven: Guild of SummonersMortal Realm: GhyranLeadersGreat Bray Shaman of Tzeentch (100)Great Bray Shaman of Tzeentch (100)The Blue Scribes (120)Tzaangor Shaman (150)- Artefact: Brimstone Familiar- Lore of Fate: Arcane SuggestionTzaangor Shaman (150)- General- Command Trait: Prophet of the Ostensible- Artefact: Everspring Diadem- Lore of Fate: Infusion ArcanumBattleline10 x Gors of Tzeentch (70)10 x Gors of Tzeentch (70)20 x Tzaangors (360)Units3 x Tzaangor Enlightened (100)3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200)10 x Ungor Raiders of Tzeentch (80)BattalionsPhantasmagoria of Fate (180)Endless Spells / Terrain / CPsChronomantic Cogs (80)Balewind Vortex (40)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 1Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 130 We played battle for the pass and he was playing nurgle, he brought a couple blightking 5 mans, a 6 man plague drone unit, a 2 man blightlord unit, 30 plaguebearwrs, a guo and a few other heroes. I took first turn and had my balewind dispelled despite having the rerolls from scribes and an arcane terrain. Which pushed my first LoC summon to t2, and my second to t4, when I had already lost. My 20 tzaangors got charged by a 5 man unit of blightkings, and did nearly 0 damage over 4 combat phases, only getting freed up when the LoC could start blasting them. The first turn of the enlightened on foot went fine, using a gor screen to get rerolls and killing 1.5 plague drones in a single phase, but didn't last long after. Skyfires did nothing. I shot the GuO with both units, did 3 damage, and then he healed it and they got stuck in combat against drones/blightlords, doing very little damage, even with full rerolls most combats. Gors and ungors sat on points, or worked as chaff, they did their job. MVP was a bray shaman I put on a balewind. I was able to steal a few objectives for a turn by dragging units off the objective. My destiny die rolls were ABYSMAL, 5 4s, 3 3s, and a 2, and I know I rolled pretty poorly overall, and my opponents rolls were fire (seriously, that 5++ felt like a 3++, I put about 15 mortal wounds into the GUO in one phase, and he only took 5 or 6, and there were similar rolls for the blightlords and plague drones). I made some mistakes that may have turned the game though, I shouldnt have bothered attacking the GUO at all, and instead focused on the other units. I tried to explode a unit of blightkings on t4, to get it off the objective, but I should have blasted the harbinger of decay instead, and just used the bray shaman to pull the blightkings off the point (which I ended up doing anyways). I also should have pulled my gors off my objective, that I couldnt hold against the plaguebearers, and moved to try to help cap another objective. I could play better, but the list could do with some work too, skyfires were sketchy, and without the LoC my damage output is far too low, I'll need to find something else, or maybe change subfactions.

Rules for Glogg's megamob got leaked. Army wide passive +1 to regeneration rolls. Command Ability: Oblivious to Sorcery: you can use it in YOUR hero phase on a unit of rockguts or fellwaters wholly within 12" of a dankhold hero. Until your next hero phase they ignore spells and endless spells on a 4+ Command Trait: If the general is alive in the hero phase get a CP on a 4+ Artefact: 5+ shrug but only for mortals. The battalion is Troggherd but 160 points and gives retreat and shoot/charge Theres also another loonshrine warscroll update to return half a unit of fellwaters or rockguts. Surprisingly it doesnt require a troggoth general, unlike the squig one. Overall seems like a fairly weak subfaction, and it does nothing for dankholds. Its a shame the artifact is only a mortal wound shrug since a 5++ would be great on a troggboss/hag. Loonshrine update is great though.

Q: When choosing an army for a Pitched Battle, what publications can I use without my opponent’s permission? A: You can use the warscrolls for units with a Pitched Battle profile listed in the General’s Handbook 2020 (excluding those listed in the Legends Pitched Battle Profiles section) and the warscrolls for units with a Pitched Battle profile in a publication that has a release date of August 2020 or later. In addition, when choosing your army, you can use rules from any of the following publications and any that have a release date of August 2020 or later: • Soul Wars: Forbidden Power The RaW is pretty clear that all the rules in Forbidden power should be legal. In addition, both malign sorcery and monstrous arcanum specify which parts are legal/illegal in brackets, while forbidden power has no such qualifiers. Regardless of GW's intention, the rules are written in a way that is not ambiguous in this scenario. Edit: werent the ghb 2019 rules for those 2 merc companies literally copy/pasted from forbidden power anyway?

While the mercs would be slower, it would allow us to zone out deepstrikes against some armies, and block alpha strikes against others, and even if the mercs force us to slow down our giants going slow is better than having a stonehorn charge our mega gargant.

Something I just realized. Since forbidden power is legal Fyreslayer and FEC mercs should still be legal too. A list that runs 2 megas, 4 solo gargants comes in at 1680 with 6 units. 1 in 4 would allow 2 merc units in the remaining 320 points. Obviously there will be other possible setups too. This could be used to bring in some screens which would be a MASSIVE boon to our army.

The +1 to cast does affect itself, but it doesnt stack with itself since it specifies "within 12" of any friendly models with this ability"

The warscrolls for the aleguzzler and chaos gargant were on the download section of the mamcrushers.

Omega Brain: take multiple kraken eaters and kick objectives closer together so you can hold them with only 1 gargant.

Or Palisade, to block shooting and be an actual screen.

Theres a confimed Slaangor coming in the mortal slaanesh underworlds warband, so there's a chance they could be part of the eventual mortal slaanesh release. Also Tzaangors are still overcosted in the DoT book, and skyfires have direct competition with flamers (which they lose pretty handily). The biggest issue with Tzaangors imo is that they NEED to be 9+ models to be worth their points, and they're pretty expensive when you need to take 20 for them to be useful. 10 man units are basically worthless unless you can prevent them from taking any casualties before fighting.

2 in a row seems unprecedented already, My theory since we're getting even 2 in a row is that Gitz won't be featured in Shattered realms at all, and this is the way they're giving us new rules. If the next one is spiderfang/moonclan I'd be almost certain of this. My thoughts are the Sulpur Breath Troggoths might show up in a supplemental product, they sound like they would be a pretty good fit for a Warcry beast.

The arachnarok has been on the best selling page for ages now, and it and the scuttleboss go out of stock pretty frequently. I wouldn't be surprised if they do get a supplement of some sort.

Im testing out some enlightened on foot in a phantasmagoria of fate list for Tzeentch, the plan is to stick them behind my gors, take a charge, then pile in. The work fine behind ungors too, you just need to be careful to not be base-to-base with the ungors. Ideally you want to be fighting after the opponent anyways.

Stomper with a bunch of mancrushers seems the best, but its possible taker might be best just because of the objective play. We shouldn't underestimate dying slowly while scoring points. Taker is probably best if you want to run 3 mega gargants, although that isn't looking like the optimal build

oof, I was hoping for something other than just copy/pasting the ogor rule. It definitely works though. Definitely looks like the warstomper tribe is the best so far IMO. Mancrushers already have the best rocks, and it allows multiple units to get it. Also this ability actually works on the mancrusher rocks too.

Whats really interesting is the charge damage, its per model, not per unit, so a unit of 3 can put out 3d3 mortal wounds on the charge. The lack of screens will make this tough though since it will be easy for our opponents to control our charges. Stardrakes are notoriously not worth their points. The ironclad can deepstrike anywhere and does that kind of damage from range, which is HUGE since it can't be screened nearly as easily.