Ganigumo

I'm torn, do I bring the 20x gutrippaz in bounty hunters? Or do I take it out, go down to 2 drops, and bring some spider rider chaff? list 1: List 2: I dropped the shackles from the second list to fit in the second unit of spider riders, because I don't have rippas snarlfangs painted and don't want to rush through them. The second list has better board control, but I'm worried I'm going to miss the damage.

I like the idea of different models with the "same" rules. Like vindictors could've just been liberators with spears for example.

It should fit into the troop slot, but it can't go into expert conquerors (since its not a Galletian Veteran)

2x10 gutrippaz can be very expensive screens, a unit of 20 can do work if buffed up, but is very squishy with bounty hunters. Big yellerz doesn't interest me that much because I hate playing 70/30 strats. Our spells are fantastic, but our magic is really bad. We have no casting bonuses in book but the swampcalla shaman's poison is nearly always better than any of our spells, and doesn't need a roll to succeed so why would we bother casting with them in most cases? For reference a spell on a 7 with +0 has a 57.83% chance of success. The opponent then has a 41.16% chance to unbind it (on a +0). Giving us an overall chance of 34.02% of succeeding. Gobsprakk can't bind to krondspine either, which is unfortunate plus he has no innate bonuses to cast, so he's just hoping to roll 7s unless we bring a rogue idol. Oddly enough I'm toying with the idea of a fast'un, arcane tome, master of magic killaboss on vulture. MoM raises the EV up to a 9, and you can do a hero phase move with fast'un to dash ahead and drop an endless spell of some sort (maybe shackles to disrupt alpha lists?) A generic double casting shaman on vulture would've been a fantastic option for the army. Edit: my unbind math is probably a little off since I just did the rates of 7+ and 8+, but its in the right ballpark.

Getting kits of female models hasn't been their MO (unless it makes sense like DoK), but usually when it makes sense they've been including both male and female sculpts in the boxes. With stormcast the armor was so bulky you probably wouldn't be able to tell (maybe thats why they sold that female head kit on FW), but it would've added some diversity to stuff like kairic acolytes, where the only female one is from the underworlds warband. The models are cool, but I'm not excited to see them, they're basically just spire tyrants with more clothes, and darkoath savagers were spire tyrants with less armor. If they're not really going to explore new ground I'd rather they use it as an opportunity to update an old kit.

Weird 'un doesn't protect against purple sun. It gives a 4+ ward against wounds or mortal wounds caused by spells and endless spells. In order for it to work against purple sun it needs to ignore the spell entirely.

Imo the latest we see them is the starter box for 4.0, also they're calling him a dwarven deity, not a chaos god, which is interesting to me. I think it would be super cool if they ended up in destruction instead of chaos. honestly I imagine the second wave of hobgrots will be allied with the chaos dwarves and maybe not the kruleboyz (although they might be allowed to pull double duty). The impression I got from kruleboyz was that the hobgrots were closer to the chorves than the orruks, which matches how they were in fantasy too.

Flamers actually make pretty decent GVs. They were already made of paper, so bounty hunters doesn't really affect them at all, they're ranged so they can score the BT for killing a GV with a GV, and 9" flying move isn't slow by any means. I'm not sure if Flamers themselves are worth taking at their current points, but shooting units make good GVs in general. My on paper assessment of Tzaangors is that they're a glass cannon now. They have insane output, even without BH, but they'll explode if any BH touch them, and they're not particularly mobile, although with a great bray shaman you could get them up to 9" move with run and charge. Haven't gotten a chance to break mine out yet. Also Kairics might be an interesting cheese pick for EC. Since the whole unit is a wizard you could use Lauchon to warp them around the board, although you'd need another wizard to summon it. I'm not sure how many you could fit wholly within 3" though, possibly 20.

I haven't gotten any games in with Tzeentch, but I think expert conqueror's screamers in host arcanum could be pretty good. They don't dominate objectives like some EC horrors would, but they're cheap and very fast, so they threaten objectives easily, and the bounty hunter damage doesn't really matter on them since they're throwaway units anyways. Then there's blue & brimstone horrors as good non GV chaff. You don't want to ignore GVs entirely, because you need them to score some BT and contest the proving ground, but bounty hunters seem common enough that you don't want GV anvils unless they're insanely durable or can mitigate the BH effect. You could maybe get away with flamer GV as well, as long as you can keep them protected.

The issue with not playing grinnin blades and going big yellers is that you nearly auto-lose to any kind of long range shooting, since boltboyz are so fragile, so you're basically just hoping you don't go up against it.

I've never played conquest, but this can make sense narratively. You generally don't want fragile pieces in the front, and want to save heavy hitters to turn the tides when things start to get messy. Deploying them in the wrong spot could be worse than not deploying them at all. Travel speed can be a factor too, Cavalry and infantry travel speeds are roughly the same. Cavalry could be faster over a short distance at an unsustainable pace, but infantry could outpace cavalry over very long distances, but proper logistics is a big factor here too. There's also organization and muster speed to consider, if they're caught off guard the heavier units will probably take longer to get prepared to fight.

exact same list. The 20 gutrippaz got blown off pretty quickly, I needed something to cover the flank since I needed to zone out the nidus path in the corner with something to protect my boltboyz. They did take out a unit of skullcrushers in the process though. 20 bounty hunter gutrippaz can do some great damage, but the application is pretty tough. 5" move with a 5+ save makes it tough to apply that damage. Killaboss was a bit of a threat, between fast 'un and sneaky miasma he's got a potential 42" move, even if his damage is a bit lacking. My Waaagh! turn was a bit underwhelming, but I'd say it was still a pretty good activation. I fought with 10 gutrippaz, the sludgeraker, and the killaboss and took out an entire unit of wrathmongers and a handful of blood warriors (that I had shot at before). I'm not sure if Kruleboyz play well into the new rules, shooting is as good as ever, and I rate grinnin blades really highly, but I think they'll fold pretty quickly to some of the more aggressive and/or durable armies.

Got a game in against blades of khorne with the same list, on the nidus paths, I won by a very small margin because I made a few mistakes picking battle tactics. It made me really want another screen in the list, but I can't really find points for it unless I drop the 20 gutrippaz down to 10. If I do that I'd have 235 points to play around with, but I wouldn't have a GV that can pump out damage. It'll certainly hit hard, but if you're up against shooting you might have some trouble.

You joke, but it would be an interesting twist for Hashut to end up being a destruction god somehow.

I think Gitz, Orruks and soulblight will be left out. (spiderfang is in though)

There is literally nothing in the rules that implies a flying unit, with a hero phase move, can't move out of combat. The ability says to do a normal move, so you follow the rules in 8.1, which don't have a restriction on the unit needing to not be within 3". Honestly this is barely even a RAW vs RAI argument, because until we get a statement, errata, or FAQ on the subject we don't actually have an "Intention" to work with other than "It feels wrong", but from experience we know that doesn't mean anything, GW has in the past ruled both towards and against edge cases like this. The rules for flying are a different subject and discussion. In that case there actually is a clear intention in the rules, As opposed to the topic in the thread, where there is literally nothing in the rules to imply either way. If we want to have the flying discussion we can make a separate thread for it, I'm open to the idea of it needing an errata to make the RAW make sense. You're accusing me of bringing my own assumptions into play, but my initial reaction to this was actually that it shouldn't work, which is why I made the thread in the first place, I was hoping someone knew of an errata or extra rule somewhere that prevented this, but so far I'm not convinced. The closest argument is that the 8.0 restriction should apply to 8.1, but rules aren't inherited this way anywhere else, so why should we assume they do here? Which means we should have either errata which moves that restriction into 8.1, & 8.3 respectively, or a statement saying that it does work that way.

Flying also ignores other models when actually moving, otherwise you wouldn't be able to fly over models period, since the base of the model would pass across the base of another model. In fact flying also needed this section, to specify that even though it ignores models you still can't just move into combat. and 9.4.1 is literally a section on passing across models for flying units. Unless you're suggesting the flying rules just don't work period and need an errata.

If its bonesplitterz I hope its something newish like bonesplitter brutes No clue what dreadfang is, could be that vampire infantry everybody wants, but its ghur so something more bestial could make sense Spiderfang has me excited, it could be an updated spider rider kit, possibly as a dual kit. Stinkhorns are mushrooms, so I bet its just moonclan, or stinky squigs, no clue what it would be though. I could see it including a new madcap shaman though. For Ogors I'd love to see some plastic maneaters For Tzeentch I've got no clue what it would be, some Tzeentchy chaos warriors could be cool, or some screamer riding kairics, but I imagine its something very different like the nurgle warband.

Why exactly would it be inherited? There isn't a single other spot in the rules where this is done. Rule 8.0 is the rules for the Movement Phase 8.1 is the rule for a Normal Move In other sections subrules are covered with a third digit, like with terrain rules (17.0), and Wholly on Terrain (17.0.1). There's also stuff like Objectives 18.0, and Terrain Control 18.2, and terrain aren't objectives, the rules aren't really related and 18.0 doesn't specify how objectives are controlled. Likewise Section 19.0 is Wizards, with section 19.2 being spells, and 19.3 being endless spells (19.3.1 being summoning endless spells, 19.3.2 being dispelling them, and 19.3.3 being removing them). Clearly this is the section about magic, which is why they're grouped together, it makes sense, but its not like any of these sections inherit from the section above them. Even the sections with a third digit are worded as a unique section, not something that inherits from an earlier rule (although it may make reference to or be related to it.)

A normal move is a normal move exactly as described in 8.1, which only has a restriction that no part of the move be within 3" of an enemy unit, which is a restriction units with fly can ignore. 8.0 only specifies the outside of 3" restriction when picking units to move in the movement phase, it isn't inherited by 8.1 or 8.3 (run). The part about being within 3" for a retreat also isn't inherited by 8.2 (but its a much less common case, I guess a unit of furies could still cower to retreat if they charged but there are no units left within 3")

Flying doesn't ignore 8.0, moving in the hero phase does.

8.0 Movement Phase: Note: this restriction is only for picking units to move in the movement phase 8.1 Normal Move: Of particular note is the fact that 8.1 doesn't have any restriction about being more than 3" away, that restriction is only for picking a unit to make a normal move in the movement phase, still units can't have any part of their movement within 3" of an enemy (including the start of it) so you wouldn't be able to move away anyways. 9.4 Flying Flying lets you ignore other models when you trace the models path (this is how you can fly over enemy units) but will also let you ignore the restriction in 8.1 So flying ignores the 8.1 restriction, and the 8.0 restriction only applies in the movement phase, so if a flying unit normal moves in another phase they can just move out of combat. I'm pretty sure I've got all the pieces together here, I saw some talk about it on twitter and looked into the rules and it checks out.

Supa Sneaky is a solid backup, since its a cool trick. I was considering slippery Skumbag but apparently there's a bit of a rules loophole (whether its intentional or not) where a flying unit making a normal move outside of the movement phase can just move out of combat with no restrictions. Honestly master of magic is pretty tempting too, I could possibly squeeze an endless spell in, and the average of 2d6 rerolling is like a 9, which is enough to dispel purple suns.

Not sure how KB units fare, but I'm curious if Hacka gutrippaz would be any good, hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s with mortals on 6s but no rend. The big waaagh! bonus attack is a big deal on kruleboyz models, since its more opportunities to fish for mortals, but I think they might struggle to get there. Haven't tried him yet, I know he hits like a truck but the only piece that he could swap in for is the killaboss on vulture. I'd love to swap the 10 man unit of gutrippaz out for him, but I need them for battleline.

I saw a thread on twitter where heywoah was talking about how flying models that can make normal moves in phases other than the movement phase could retreat (i.e fast 'un mawkrusha). It seemed related to the ghb, or possibly something the ghb didn't fix. Does anyone know the exact rules on how this works? From what I can tell: Seems the gist of it is: the 8.0 restriction of not being within 3" is only when you pick the unit to move You can't move within 3" of an enemy unit when making a normal move Flying ignores the restriction of not being able to move within 3" of an enemy when making a normal move (but you still need to be 3" away at the end of the move") Therefore if it isn't the movement phase the 8.0 restriction doesn't apply, and if the unit flies the 8.1 restriction doesn't apply, so if both apply you could normal move out of combat Did I get this right? Or am I missing something?