woolf

Gobsprakk should be good now with the addition of the extra magic dice, or what do you reckon?

Lol well put 😂 and fully agree. They should have modelled this with two bases, a separate one with the crow nest being moved around and planted by the Ogre, but the backpack routine.. quite wonky 😂

thx for sharing and gratz on the victory game! 💪💪 what was your take vs the OBR? on paper feels like we should be decent against them being elite and susceptible to MW, although obv the general power lvl of that book greatly supersedes our own

skaven always have a bit of special place as was my first models as a kid some 20+ yrs ago... at least I suppose some of those sculpts are still relevant 🙃

at least u got an updated model range! ...oh yeah that was the lizards too.. erhm yeah.. but hey u got cool lore!

They also have a ton of rend so from that point of view adds to point that normal armour is becoming less valuable. Rend 3 wound is close to MW in a lot of cases after all..

epic!

gah hate it when they release these and living in a country with none of these events... was the shaman last time 😫

think its mainly a dmg (rend) issue, they don't really cut through high saves very well (no MW output either). If you match them with something that is light in the armour save department (looking at your dear rats there ^^) they will perform strongly.

on the other hand this effect seems to be getting more common if anything, NH, DOK and now OBR all got it too right?

yeah was just a thought mainly on basis of current pace of releases. I think its probably likely though that KB and SCE were tested against each other and that KB did fairly well in that matchup (not accounting for skew dragon/shootlists that probably had more limited testing), issue I'd that while the VEW mechanic makes us able to deal with low model count, fairly slow, high save but no ward save SCE, we really lack the tools to deal with other armies. think u are rigth that the book was a bit rushed without proper and broader testing, also clear that they were more cautious about abilities early on which has since relaxed a bit. IDK is another example were there are a lot of ifs and buts written into their abilities I think (far from as bad as KB ofc) as for IDK dropping competitively it's likely that they were never that strong outside eelspam which was kinda killed with the changes to Akhelian King cmd ability (removed stacking) and pts increases (they were 140 iirc in the "glory days"), they did okish early but as books have now become stronger they don't really hold up, just too squishy to take punch and not killy enough to delete things as they used to, also smaller maps and other armies getting faster (or fast armies getting strong like NH) probably makes it harder to survive to t3.. sry wrong thread maybe but just some thoughts cheers

guys I have a new theory, could it be that they playtest batches of battletomes? so we don't actually have battletome power creep, we rather have "batch-creep". so eg idobeth and FS were part of an earlier batch while, KO, HoS, BoK, OBR, SBGL were all tested together and mainly against each other, hence they kinda stack up between themselves but as a group they are just stronger than the older books?

great insight spot on

not that I'm aware, I don't play 40k though so honestly have very poor understanding of the rules and faction rules in that game, I think genestealers have some sort of beast of chaos like deepstrike maybe? Anyways I was thinking about KB traps a while back and my ideas were around having mainly utility rather than dmg traps, things like if you charge into a trap you get penalty to armour save and maybe some neg modifier to hit or #attacks, opening you up for counter attack. Or the KB unit can disappear using a hidden trapdoor to basically teleport away. Could also be things like if you spring the trap, that unit cant charge in the next phase, or get less movement so they don't reach an objective as planned (or maybe just don't count towards objectives as that is a thing now, e.g. new OBR magic bird). Basically I would like the army to have a playstyle that is very evasive, they should evaporate in a "fair" 1-1 fight (and hey we got that part covered already!) but they need then tools to really select their fights and when they do, opponent fights with debuffs, strike last etc (or we fight with buffs to maybe make less "NPE" if ppl dont like getting debuffed, basically the same thing just word it as we get extra rend or they get neg armour etc). The delivery mechanism of the traps could be made in many different ways, e.g. could be tied to terrain, could be a specific unit that is trapped (i.e. if you step 3'' from them, but it is removed if they move or something like that), or could be that KB gets like 10 markers (similar to gravesites) with numbers on and X of them are trapped, there could be some unit that can place new traps etc (im sure it wouldn't be too hard to come up with a number of other alternatives for this). For me that would be way much more fun, thematic and also play into the psychology warfare, i.e. the trap effects need to be impactful enough so opponent really needs to play around them, e.g. send a screen forward to "sweep" rather than throw your big 500pts hammer in to get snared and killed by swarming orruks. I would then just remove VEW as is and instead maybe a certain trap effect is that you score mortals on 6s against the unit that triggered that trap. Also very different play style from other armies (i.e. a very reactive one, you need to lure opponent into making moves to expose themselves) that I think would be a nice addition to the game

tricks and traps should be the thing here, personally really like the idea of having loads of high impact traps disrupting opponent game plan, things that stop movement, charge, lower dmg output etc, basically delay tactics making them miss battle tactics and lose objectives, not so much killing their units. But they should constantly need to be worried about making a certain move, seems exactly the way our ladz figths in the lore

100%

think we have probably discussed this here before but while I do agree with you they should have to come down to something like that to work, I can also see them becoming a problem as dealing a lot of mortals in theory if spammable (I say theory as they still struggle with delivery and cant be buffed in combat...) ultimately scroll is just broken beyond repair between the VEW allegience ability, their paper thin armor and low mobility 🤷‍♂️ kinda wish they could just make hobgrots unconditional battleline.. or at least unlock as long as u include any unit of gutrippaz as opposed to 1 for 1

Good ambition, should add that to my achievement objectives!

haha unfortunately not, but they did do some good hammering, had one with fastun to go after things needing a bit of bashing and kept the other one behind screen for counterpunching. I'm not very competitive player and don't get a lot of games in

sloggoth is quite nice with mirebrute as well, had a list a while ago running 2x mirebrute and sloggoth where I felt I got value out of him

@TechnoVampire def agree that this book poorly matches what you seem to want for play style, probably worth looking at eg FEC for hard hitting alpha style strategy, at least there are some unit synnergies between the two factions that u can maybe leverage? generally I think GW likes to deliberately pigeon hole the different armies so as a hobbyist who likes a certain range one is unfortunately kinda forced to lean into the set out strategy of that faction (or accept losing games). on other hand it also helps them keep clear identities associated with the different factions which on the total helps keep the game diversified

right direction at least! let's just hope enough brave souls continue to play in tournaments with this book so we can keep inching forward 😂

really cool mechanic from flavour perspective and great to see them change depravity generation as was quite counteracting what u generally want to do in game (ie kill units fully...) however given how strong these bonuses are I do wonder if this basically doesn't just default to dishing out an extra d3 mw to units in combat per phase (unless if u are already at 36)... not bad in that but the mind game seems to me in 90% cases that the correct choice of opponent is to just accept the dmg.. what are ppls thoughts on that?

the GHB rule does not combine with their forgotten nigthmare, i.e if the galletian champion is closest you can shoot the next closest unit (since the GHB makes the hero not targetable). Deepkin ofc still strong vs shooting but just wanted to point out as the rules can maybe read a bit like there is no viable target and u can't shoot at all..

Think this is a good point, from my side they should probably start more with gameplay actually and then tailor the lore a bit to match it, which in most cases should be quite easy. E.g. instead of a summoned hailstorm (as someone mentioned) where it doesnt quite make sense that armour gives no protection, you can just write it as a summoned "magic XYZ" hailstorm and then have good alignment between rules and lore..