Neomaxim

As we keep nailing down the definition of "best", I am realizing the more I read it, that Bonereapers strikes me as a pretty terrible book. The entire book hinges on the Mortek Guard being a solidly points efficient battleline, as without that one core, the rest of the book probably can't function remotely. Knowing a whole book is one points tweak away from dropping multiple notches competitively is one of the quickest ways to scare me away from an army. My Legions of Nagash took a considerable tumble with only token changes to Grimghast points, and Bonereapers feel like they're launching on the same precipice.

That is just because they're new, and have buzz. No one will be touting the long-term quality of Mawtribes, and Bone Reapers look like they're back in the trap-book realm, where every category has obvious winners and losers. I think hypothetical "best book" status requires as much internal balance as possible, with larger amounts of options for diverse playstyles, and external balance should be a goal as well. I also don't think a perfect book exists, but I find the handful of names which keep coming up very telling as something GW should consider going forward.

Random aside, but a friend wanting to start IJ/BW asked me whether they should buy two or three Start Collecting, boxes. Thoughts? My instinct was to tell them that 2x is an obvious slam-dunk of terrific units that they'll use all of, but is a third already starting to become inefficient for the hobby-dollar? I almost feel like telling him 2x Starter + 2x 'Ard Boys is a better investment, early on.

I'm honestly more surprised we're not seeing more Great Waaagh lists in general. I feel like all the competitive Orruk discussion got instantly consolidated when Leo (very deservedly, btw) won his event with Iron Jawz, with people quickly forgetting that a week prior a very inexperienced AoS player was only one misplay away from routing Slaneesh as well with The Great Waaagh. I can't wait to see what some casting-heavy, endless-spell rocking Orruks do to the meta. 😉

I'm friends with Dan and he makes wonderful product that I literally use for every one of my AoS armies. I can't speak to European shipping, but as far as quality of product goes, his trays are excellent!

As with a few of the posts here, I feel like CoS is another winner all around. Maybe it is just the books that have become combined tomes from several earlier armies, but something feels good, and calls to mind Ravening Hordes era WHFB when I have a book of options, and list building is more about catering to my personal play-style than cherry-picking optimal units (or anything else really). I also really appreciate when a book has units spanning enough archetypes that I could build in loads of ways. I don't want all factions equally good at everything, but even the notion that I can tilt casting heavy one game, but go shooty or melee heavy another, appeals to me as both player and collector. I bought my mom-in-law a couple Gob Spittas, and it was weirdly revelatory to let her build her own list, and see her take those and spam Shootas. Was it optimal? Hell no, but it suited what she wanted to try, and still made for a surprisingly legit game.

I have, in recent months, been all consumed with AoS. I am a former competitive players of games going back to being part of the original Magic Pro-Tour, but have always tempered my competitive drive with fondness for fluff, rpg-light skirmish gaming, etc. In recent months my wife and I have introduced her parents to AoS, and with that I have been building them fun, approachable armies, and thus also playing just as many casual matches as serious ones, which has only grown my fondness for the game in general. As a result, I have all but been living in battletomes which has made me seriously consider what I feel the best written book is, gameplay-wise. My personal conclusion? I feel like the Gloomspire Gitz is an absolute high water-mark. It is filled with wildly varied, but viable lists for all different skill-level of player. It rewards high execution players, but also has valid models for "push 'em up the table" play. Several units have fun, unique, ecclectic abilities, and among spells, artifacts, etc... very few are outright bad, or immediately feel like awful choices. In essence it is a broad, but fairly deep pool of options with healthy internal balance. This of course does NOT mean it is the strongest competitive army book, but my intent with this discussion is to ask what book you think SHOULD ideally represent the game, and thus should be the internal barometer for all GW designers to strive for. What is your "golden standard" book, and how would you see some the extremes of competitive play look had they been created in that chosen book's image?

I have, in recent months, been all consumed with AoS. I am a former competitive players of games going back to being part of the original Magic Pro-Tour, but have always tempered my competitive drive with fondness for fluff, rpg-light skirmish gaming, etc. In recent months my wife and I have introduced her parents to AoS, and with that I have been building them fun, approachable armies, and thus also playing just as many casual matches as serious ones, which has only grown my fondness for the game in general. As a result, I have all but been living in battletomes which has made me seriously consider what I feel the best written book is, gameplay-wise. My personal conclusion? I feel like the Gloomspire Gitz is an absolute high water-mark. It is filled with wildly varied, but viable lists for all different skill-level of player. It rewards high execution players, but also has valid models for "push 'em up the table" play. Several units have fun, unique, ecclectic abilities, and among spells, artifacts, etc... very few are outright bad, or immediately feel like awful choices. In essence it is a broad, but fairly deep pool of options with healthy internal balance. This of course does NOT mean it is the strongest competitive army book, but my intent with this discussion is to ask what book you think SHOULD ideally represent the game, and thus should be the internal barometer for all GW designers to strive for. What is your "golden standard" book, and how would you see some the extremes of competitive play look had they been created in that chosen book's image?

No problem! That's why we're here. To help. 🙂

To the above... why a unit of 25 HGB? The next five are literally free. 🙂

Three Copters and three bombers puts you just under the ally cap at 2000pts. They get discounted when taken in threes.

I mean... even at 2000pts, overcoming his mobility is an issue. Adding Chronomantic Cogs can help a bit, but that's even more investment.

Just wondering, as I'm inspired by the prospect of six allied Gyrocopters... but can Fyreslayers ally with Cities of Sigmar? How does AoS deal with future-proofing allies, as obviously the Cities of Sigmar weren't a thing when our codex dropped.

Please tell me they're good?! I've been dying for an excuse to paint a couple ever since 7th Ed WHFB! Edit: Oh my... I just looked them up. Zippy harassing flyers at shockingly low cost per three??? Yes please. A perfect way to spend some points in a Fyreslayer list.

Those are amazing! How much greenstuff work went into fitting those seamlessly around the neck??

Thanks! I'll pass that along. And yes, i'm sure there's always more raw point-for-point efficiency to be had, but in AoS, regardless of army, there is still a pure need for volume of bodies too. 🙂

Any thoughts on adding Gotrek to a Sylvaneth list? I am helping my father-in-law build his Sylvaneth and he's hoping for a competitive way to include Gotrek. As Sylvaneth already have very points-efficient battleline in Dryads, I thought there might be points to make it work, but i'm not very familiar with the army, in general. Thanks!

I really appreciate that. I've gone with four boxes initially, which also let me buy a Troggboss and two boxes of Rockguts, plus more of other staples I still needed. Thanks!

So, I'm about to place a big order to expand our Gloomspite Gitz, and I'm wondering if it is over-kill to own 30 Fanatics? Is it excessive to have enough to pack two full sized groups of them into a list? I only ask, as their price-per-model makes them one of the costlier parts of my order, and it would mean skimping on things like the number of Troggoths I could order, at least for now.

I have LoN, and Nighthaunt, so running giant hordes feels downright comfortable for me at this point! Definitely curious about those Gobbas though. Decent, cheap artillery sounds awesome.

I just went 12:0 at a Warcry event using an Infernal, Flayer, Horror and 5x Ghouls, and must say they brutalized my opponents in every single match. Even in an almost mirror-match the 5th Ghoul made a huge difference, out-activating, and thus out-playing a really good opponent. With about 35 games of WC under my belt now, I feel like in the 12 competitive scenarios, that list will be dominating for a really long time. For what its worth, nothing in the Mercs book, at least in competitive play, offers anything our army can't do better all by itself. Also, Quads are just absurd value on units like the Infernal. Units with high speed value disproportionately from a free move, ditto for hard hitters getting a free strike. On an Infernal you functionally can be anywhere, and kill anything!

An addendum, actually... but I was thinking of getting a couple of Gobbas and/or a Troggoth Hag in my Forgeworld order... are they good options? At a glance I feel like the Gobbas fill a role literally nothing else in the army does, and it looks good?

I'm an old gamer, so I can do the "post as intended, versus post as written." 🙂 I appreciate it. I'm also hoping some folks might have more insights into the synergies I can look for in terms of best buffs. For example, Fanatics, inexplicably aren't [Moonclan Grots] so can't receive most buffs at all, as far as I can tell. Troggoth side it is much easier to see all the buffing/support potential, but do Grots, for one example, perform well when completely buffed... and from whom?

New poster, and currently catching up on this thread as my family makes our first Gitz purchases. It'll be a shared family army as a few of us are just dabbling with AoS while others already have our face-punch tournament armies in other factions. A super helpful post a few pages back, kind of did the unit tiers, and frequently mentioned playing "bingo" to line up keywords and synergies. For those of us who haven't poured over the book yet, can someone maybe elaborate on some of these before we go off and make too many purchases? We've started with a handful of staples, and just order 80 Grots, 20 Hoopers/Bounders, and a Fungoid and Skragrot the Loonking. I'm planning to order a lot more so any of my family can go down whatever branch of the faction they feel like on a given day, but I do want to buy efficiently so we don't add too many absolute turds, while ignoring fun interactions. Also, maybe a weird question, but is there any merit to running 100+ Grots and a couple 15-strong units of surprise Fanatics? I absolutely love their rules, but wonder if they live up to their points, and/or if 15 is too many to properly place, wasting bodies. Thanks!