Chaos Shepard

I have found that -1 Rend can still work for us due to other Rend altering abilites in Beast of Chaos. Try to align it with either the Herdstone, Sundering Blades, or Tendrils. Just try to be aware of where the enemy puts mystic shield lest your rend gets completely negated. Another way to make Rend more reliable is to spread out engagements. It is a bit risky but the enemy can only use all out defense in one spot. I have had some decent luck using Enlightened behind a screen of Gor, Ungor Raiders. Also being able to dictate combat order with the Taurus has worked wonders.

Cant Rally only bring back slayed models? With the new rule Pinks and Blues no longer count as slayed so can you even bring them back?

I think the reason it is in a White Dwarf is to give the army a quick fix. Sons of Behemat weren't in need of a whole new book so it would be wasteful to rush an update just to add battalions to Sons of Behemat. I hope they plan to do this with other struggling armies they do plan on updating right away. Maybe update Ossiarch Bonereapers' Relentless Discipline or something to fix the terrible state Beast of Chaos are in.

I am not sure if 6 bulls are viable. Thanks to the current coherency rules and their short range with large bases you will maybe get one more bull in than typical, leaving 2 bulls out of combat. It would probably be better to take them in yet more units of 3. This has the additional benefit of also giving you another champion which mean one more attack on the same weapon. Also are the bulls already modeled with duel axes or can that be changed? For the longest time, duel axes have been considered the worst options though there is an argument for them being better this edition since rerolls are less common. Still if I was going to pick, I would probably go with large ax or shields. Also I would agree on taking at least one Chaos Spawn.

It is not ambiguous. There is a base rule that states units cannot excide their starting size. Split and Split again has an exception to this rule baked into it so you can go over your starting unit when split and split again happens. Life Swarm have no such exception in its wording so it can not bring back pinks unless you are below the units starting size.

They are most likely referring to the additional allegiance abilities found in Broken Realms: Kragnos. Gors can reroll charges on ambush, Warherd can do mortal wounds on the charge, and Thunderscorn can heal/deal moral wounds at the end of combat.

I am not sure how much credit I place in this theory. Its not off brand for GW to just sometimes forget Beast of Chaos exist. Still there are some model more obvious for refresh than others. Obviously it would be smart to avoid anything metal or finecast. As far as standard units go that would be; Centigor, Tuskgor Chariots, Razorgors, Cockatrice, and Jabberslythe. As far as hero units it would be; Beastlord, Doombull, and Shaggoth; or another way of putting it, anything that isn't a Shaman. These units are the most likely to get updated or dropped come our next book. I say dropped but it is very unlikely that they would drop any of the hero characters, however, I do think it worth mentioning the Shaggoth. While I don't think for a moment they will remove the Shaggoth, the model has never properly reflected its size in the lore. They could potentially upscale the Shaggoth to a size that would essentially make the old model obsolete(think black coach or Be'Lakor). That is the obvious stuff out of the way. When it comes to plastic, things are a little less clear. I suppose I can try to call out what is safe first. All Tzaangor should be completely safe. They are relatively new kits shared between 2 armies and even 2 gaming systems. I also believe that the Gorgon/Cygor kit and Dragon Ogors kits are well and truly safe from refresh. After that things get a little tricky. Lets look gors, bestigor, and ungors/raiders. All three of these are 10 year old models, they are also of an older design philosophy you don't see in newer kits. I don't see GW changing one of these kits without changing all of these kits. In fairness I don't see GW changing these kit anytime soon, while they are old enough and can use a refresh, they still hold up rather well and the effort to update them maybe better spent else where. Bullgors are in very much the same boat as the gors are, 10 year old models and all that. Heck I would even say that their design principle better line up with newer kits. Now you may think this would make them less likely to get updated but there is one thing holding them back, they ugly. At the very least, many have voiced their contempt for the models. While I maintain that effort would be better spent elsewhere, if they update the Doombull with a different design, I could see GW altering the Bullgors while they are at it. The only three units I haven't mentioned are Spawn, Chaos Warhounds, and Chimera. I generally think these kits are safe. While most of this is down to effort being better spent elsewhere. Warhounds are a fine enough model but mostly I don't think anyone cares enough about them to warrant an update. Spawn could use an update but why for Beast of Chaos and not Slaves to Darkness, or Chaos Space Marines. Though the real problem with spawn is that they are just to expensive for 2 models and everyone just kit bashes them anyways. The Chimera is the only one I could see getting updated but again I would imagine effort better spent on making a whole new monster and just keeping the Chimera as is. That said, it is odd the clearly different Chimera that is present on the cover of the latest General's Handbook. TL;DR I think the only things destined for updates are all the finecast/metal models. I believe that all current plastic is more or less staying where it is, with maybe bullgors being the exception.

Eyes of Nine have the one Blue Horror.

I'm sorry but this kind of rules lawyering doesn't fly with me. People can say there is no way to judge Rule As Intended but everyone here who commented mentioned how it feels wrong. If you are going down this rabbit hole, you are just asking for pain and misery. Abilities are not properly defined so I could argue that gaining a command point is an ability. They argue its an effect of the rules and not an ability. I say that it has an effect thus it is an ability. They argue that its not on a warscroll so it is not an ability. Then I counter and say that Rally isn't an ability because its not on a warscroll and must be a rules effect then too. They argue that it is called a "Command Ability" so it must be an ability. I argue that no where does it state that a "Command Ability" is an "Ability" and again it not on warscroll. They say it doesn't have to be on a warscroll because the rules make it an ability. Then I bring back that gaining command points must be an ability as well, and then, like an ouroboros, the whole thing repeats itself.

That sounds like useful information. What armies where you playing against and what did they use to kill them. Where you fielding one unit of Dragon Ogors or did the enemy hunt down and slaughter multiple units. I am not trying to say Dragon Ogors are secretly a super unit. They lack a necessary punching power. I am trying to play to their strengths. This might mean investing more to their defense. Depending on the threat, perhaps +2 armor save is necessary. If you where to take 6 of them perhaps running them as singe unit to better stack buffs might be a better option despite of the nightmare that is coherency. And yes, mortal wounds will be this units Achilles' heel. If you regularly face off against these kinds of armies(and there are plenty of them) Dragon Ogors might not be that great of an option for you. Even after all this, they are probably not going to stand up to most well tuned hammer units. They might be fairly cheap in a per wound cost but if the enemy can wipe anything with a single attack you are better off with a over all cheaper speed bump unit. They would be best used to hold off mid-tier threats, a good bully or anti-bully unit.

I might have figured out why Dragon Ogors when up. With easy access to armor modifiers, armor saves seem to go a lot further than they use to. Then you add in the +1 cap, having a higher base save also becomes more important. Dragon Ogors only pay 10pts per wound with a 4+ base armor save. Dragon Ogors might be one of our best choice for a defensive option.

There is going to be more MSU running around and the fact that it moves twice as often can lead to a lot of compounded mortal wounds. Now the strike last ability probably wont effect more than 3 enemy units. But this will effect with absolute certainty. Strike last is still an amazing ability. Just don't charge into the range of the it, but you can still pile into range with no problem because at that point you are already activating and you should have the chance to move it again before the next combat phase. As far as making it more reliable to cast the Tzaangor Shaman has a once per game reroll. Alternatively you could take the master of magic command trait for a once per turn reroll.

Ok so on death effects wont trigger but after death effects like Rally would still work on models that fled. Which makes sense considering what "Rally" means.

I don't get people's negativity on the Wild Fire Taurus. It lost D6 and only does D3 on a 2+ but it moved twice as often. Then you have people complaining that the strike last can effect us, news flash it could always effect us, difference now is that we have full control of it(so long as the wizard is alive). It went up in point but everything went up in points. It is one harder to cast but that also means it is one harder to dispel. I think the problem is that people are comparing the old profile with the new rules when you need to compare the old profile with the old rules to the new profile with the new rules. Frankly I was expecting it to be much worse, making it only target one unit or something.

I actually have the opposite opinion in this part. Rend actually feels like it has a point. Armor save in this game where so low that everything beyond rend 1 felt mostly redundant. Its not perfect, I do think that rend tends to be rarer and over costed when compared to mortal wounds, so there is room for improvement going forward.

I know what you mean. If it were up to me I would add 4 new Greatfrays that would more or less be copies of the old Battalions. On top of adding the respective god keyword, they would also unlock the corresponding allies.

I actually have been contemplating where Gors sit this new edition. The difference between Gors and Ungors is only 5 points, and without hoard discounts, this remains constant. Ungors are probably still better offensively thanks to the magic base size bonus, but your not really taking them for their damage output. Now compared to Bestigors, 20 Gors is only 15pts more than a single unit of Bestigors. For near the same point you get twice the number of wounds and the same armor save in combat. Now I don't think this makes Gors strictly better that Bestigors now. In a head on confrontation the Bestigors would probably win in the end. However, if you are looking for something more defensive they are the better investment. I am actually thinking a nice 30 man block of Gors might not be a bad investment for 225pt. Between Mystic Shield, All-out Defense, and Rally; they might have a decent staying power. Before anyone says anything, I know you cant benefit from Mystic Shield, All-out Defense, and Beastshields at the same time, but they can be used to negate enemy rend. That said I was also wandering how duel wielding Gors might stack-up. I still think shields is the way to go since you would most likely be taking them for defensive purposes, but with the cap on armor saves and easy access to +1 save, it might be worth investigating. Last thing to consider is the new abilty they got in Kragnos. If you just spam a bunch of MSU Gors and roll out of ambush, you might have a decent chance of catching a few enemy units. You don't necessarily have to win these engagements, just slowing the enemy down for a turn could be enough to swing the game in your favor. This is just a few things to think about.

Does anyone remember that Underworlds/Warcry hybrid game they showed off more than a few months back? Have we heard anything more on that?

I also like how they call out Raiders and Skyfires as being "very capable when operating in there minimum unit size". You know like all those ranged units suffering from the new coherency rules... what. Nevermind that Raiders can no long group up to gain rerolls, and Skyfires want to group up so they can active as a group to take advantage of Guided by the Future.

I could see marks, but I could also see us getting sub factions related to each chaos god.

Army building is no longer tied to keywords. It is based on factions. Even if we still had our God Battalions there would be no way for us to fit our army into the other factions as allies.

I know that I am looking forward to taking a Doombull and giving them the Arcane Tome to make them a wizard. Flaming Weapon might be a good go to, though the Ghur spell Metamorphosis could also work. Hell you could just charge up Arcane Bolt and charge some one for 2D3 Mortal wounds.

It's possible that the rule is trying to tell you that you can't select Unique Character's for enhancements but since Spell Lore Enhancements are applied to the the army as a whole this could super seed that limitation. It's something that is going to need to be FAQed, one way or the other.

I have liked almost everything they have shown about the new edition so far, with the exception of the new coherence rules. This could all go away if they reveal some method for models stuck in back ranks to fight. The fact that this hurts 32 mil bases more than any other base. Personally I would have wrote the rule so that every model must be within 1" of another model and must be within 12" of ever other model in the unit. There now there are no overly long stringed out units, and a 10 man 32 mil unit could fit end to end with a little wiggle room leftover. Still going to hope for some alteration to engagement range.

To be fair that Killa Kans limit isn't from the Detachments. That limit a from the 3 unit max limit they placed on all non Troop/Transport choices.