Landohammer

Thats good to know. But I can't imagine a single faction will warrant that kind of attention. The situation you quoted was a for a game-wide issue that affected many factions. It does however give me hope that the Ward Save fiasco will be addressed sooner rather than later But as Mirage said, Sylvaneth players have been really noisy on the Facebook account. I have also emailed the FAQ team. If we stay noisy on both ends then maybe we will get the squeaky wheel treatment.

You just perfectly described The Ninth Age lol. We learned a lot from the Ninth Age experiment, and I personally enjoyed playing it as a means to bridge the gap between the End Times and AOS 2.0. It definitely served a purpose. But it was a MASSIVE amount of work by a lot of talented/dedicated people that ultimately went nowhere. People will always prefer officially supported games, even if the product is inferior.

@Mirage8112 To my knowledge, GW historically does not do post-FAQ hot fixes, at least for AOS. If they mess up something in the FAQ, its pretty much always left that way until the next scheduled FAQ or a related publication hits. I hope I am wrong and they make an exception for Sylvaneth. Fortunately several TO's on twitter are allowing Sylvaneth players to continue to use the teleport as a house rule. So if we are waiting 3-4 more months for the year end FAQ, then at least a few events will help us out. So the hurdle of having to buy the forests is annoying, but I also personally find transporting 3+ wyldwoods to events/games to be quite impractical. I usually have my army on a nice neat tray, and then a giant clunky rubbermade full of trees lol. And the leaves/branches are particularly fussy. I do it because I love the faction, but I can't help but feel like the odd duck. I am *really* hoping that we get a WD article. Based on the rumour thread, it doesn't look like we are on the schedule for a new codex anytime soon.

So I would obviously avoid targeting anything with a save buff, but the issue is that my opponent will be popping All out Defense as soon as I target them. So even a basic 4+ unit will jump to a 3+ and still save half of the bows Rend 1 attacks. Yea my typical thursday night opponents wouldn't care at all, but I generally try to be as WYSIWYG as possible in tournaments, and I often play at least 1-2 of those a month. So there is no point, for me at least, to dial in list I can't use in a tournament. Yea the Fyreslayers and Dispossessed bring some very welcome tools to a Sylvaneth list, but like you said, that kind of playstyle is just flat out easier in a Living City list. Also, unlocking those allies requires you to give up meaningful subfaction buffs and that is a REALLY heavy price IMHO. I continue to express my frustration at losing Wanderers as allies, while retaining access to Duardin. I mean, even Idoneth have access to Aelf cities units without any kind of subfaction requirement. I can't help but wonder if Wanderers falling off the allies chart was just another in a long line of careless oversights for the Sylvaneth faction.

You would have to bring Living City to field Sisters since the 3.0 FAQ removed Wanderers as allies. Just another kick in the ribs for Sylvaneth😭. I have been considering an Ironbark list just to bring 20 Irondrakes, but the Irondrake allegiance rules are so bad I cant bring myself to do it. I'm still not sold on Bow Hunters but I haven't given them a fair shake yet. The models are pricy and I never bothered magnetizing the 21 Swords/Scythes that I own. So its a $110+ investment to try them out. 😳

We often disagree on stuff, and here is another one lol. There is no way they intentionally removed our primary allegiance ability. Other than sub faction abilities, the teleport is pretty much all we get. If blocking LOS and the charge phase damage on 6+ is all they do, I wouldn't even bother bringing more than 1 to games. Personally I do think the teleport as a mechanic is bad, since it forces players into having to purchase and transport multiple forests to games to fully capitalize. But removing it entirely in a FAQ so quickly after it was overhauled just can't be how they intended to do it. They would have waited for a new codex or at least a WD article.

Oh yea, shackles can be brutal for sure. But its limited range and relatively high casting cost can make it tricky to execute safely. Its also a fairly high points cost. The biggest downside to shackles is that you are allowed to attempt to dispel endless spells in each hero phase, and any hero can attempt it with a heroic action. So you will almost always have 2 shots to stop it, and in the event of a double turn you could get 3 shots. Cogs can be casted on the board edge and provides immediate benefit, with little to no skill or risk required. Shackles still might outperform Cogs in specific situations, but Cogs is probably better overall.

Yes they are probably the most powerful endless spell in the game ATM. I find myself eyeing them even in lists where I only have two wizards. Because they can effectively double your magic phase. My armies pays around 100pts for a single caster but 275-360pts for a double caster. So getting multiple potential double casts for 45pts is a no-brainer. I think they only reason we don't see Cogs in every single Tzeentch and LRL army is because those guys pretty much always take Spellportal (and the Tzeentch Tome of eyes), and may struggle to find the points for additional endless spells.

I know there are some Alarielle and Warsong fans out there (i'm not one of them) but Sylvaneth really benefited because of the update to wyldwoods that let you "scatter" them rather than drop a single cohesive piece. This gave them a massive boost in mobility. That combined with the Treelord ancients new aura command ability which can quite often make nearly the entire army +1 save, pushed them up probably 2 tiers. (From D- to B- IMHO). Though I'm not a fan of Alarielle or Warsong, I do appreciate that they offer the army additional tools, so in the big picture I think they are also helping the faction. While I'm pretty sure the FAQ disabling the teleport was a mistake, I'm not entirely sure the change to "scattering forests" was. If that was intentional and remains intact I imagine Sylvaneth will probably continue to lanquish in C+ tier, with the only exception being a few highly skilled players with skewed lists. If they don't fix the teleport for 6 months we are in biiig trouble though. Its the only primary allegiance ability of note in the faction.

Thanks. I....I actually don't think he is that good. ::ducks thrown tomatoes:: My meta is full of Tzeentch, LRL, Slaanesh and Archaon at the moment. So him and his endless spells get shut down or ignored The Warsong combo is usually 345-390pts. So when strong antimagic pops up, its a huge handicap.

Yes but clearly a poor one lol. This was a really frustrating day for a lot of mid-table players like myself. This is like their fourth shot at writing wyldwoods and they ended up breaking the entire faction lol.

Hey guys I play Sylvaneth, Nighthaunt, and Deepkin. I am just gonna go grab a drink real quick and then look at my FAQs. I'm excited!

I think I see your point now. Reducing it from 3 models to 1-3 models per summon does lower the threshold of minimum models needed to play the faction and perform a teleport. You are correct. But I don't understand why that had to take away the ability to summon 3 separate pieces with each summon. It was absolutely a huge buff that we desperately needed. As it stands, we probably have one of the worst 3 basic allegiance rules in the game, since it hedges entirely on either getting a spell off or bringing a model that can auto-summon it. The "split" rule helped alleviate that. I guess its all moot since we don't technically have the teleport at the moment lol. Here's hoping several paragraphs are missing from that warscroll

There are a lot of things in that are bad for the game, but spamming trees was not one of them. It gave us a pretty big leg up competitively, since it let us teleport with a lot more versatility. We have always had to have a lot of forests, that change had no impact on that.

You can no longer summon 3 distinct pieces of terrain with each summon. We are back to a single model consisting of 1-3 pieces. This absolutely nerfs us back to 2.0 levels. The ability to summon 3 separate trees per use was critical to us capitalizing on our teleport. (which also, hilariously, was forgotten about and is now gone RAW). This is a bad day to be a tree 😭

I actually like these changes, though I would still hesitate to enforce them at any event I ran. But if the community wanted some comp, this would be a good start.

I'm a bit rusty on win/loss rate analysis but if I remember correctly, the Ninth Age data analysts considered anything consistently below 45% or above 55% (with solid sampling data) to be problematic. Factions hitting <40% or >60% win rates consistently was unheard of. If it happened it could justify immediate intervention. However AOS data has some pretty severe issues. You have cross faction units like Archaon, Gotrek, and Mega Gargants that can can push entire factions up a tier. While I still consider our sampling data to be a bit too small, I def think there are some obvious outliers. SOB, LRL and DOK rose to the top pretty quickly and have stayed on top. While BOC, NH, and GG have been at the bottom all along.

GW's history with Apps is pretty terrible and given their neglect of 3rd edition as a whole I don't forsee the AOS app being any different. Ya'll remember when the GHB and LRL codex hit and Azyr didn't update for like 2 months? I personally still intend on getting it simply because I currently use the 40k app and wish to maintain access to it. (and the cost difference between 40k app and WH+ is negligible) That being said, if you ONLY play AOS then you should listen to the OP. GW is very likely to miss the AOS app launch date by several months given recent trends. No need to give them money until you can use the product.

I have attended 3 third edition events so far with 2.5 hours rounds. I have finished 43/45 of my turns, using Sylvaneth and Nighthaunt armies. Third is not slower than second. In fact, there are about 15% less models on the field and the table is smaller. So in a vacuum, games *should* go faster than in 2nd. My club mate has finished 45/45 of his turns using Ogors. We have also played multiple practice games and finished them all handily within 3 hours. Its a new edition, and people just take time to learn it. I am seeing some delays and "analysis paralysis" with battle tactics and command abilities. Most notably "redeploy" and "unleash hell" where the inactive opponent will often ask for a second to think. Also there are 18 new battleplans to learn. All of these delays will go away as people get games under their belt. The players/armies who aren't going to finish games in 3rd, are the same ones who didn't finish games in 2nd. The key difference with third, at least in my experience, is that most games are decided on turn 4-5. So an incomplete game is more of an injustice because so many points are scored in later turns.

Yes, the Mega Gargant "Mercenary" rules specifically provide an exemption to the points limit for allies. You just can't bring any other allies besides the Mega.

I think GW is always looking for an excuse to sell people more books. I imagine we will get a new monstrous arcanum released in the next year or so. Or, at worse, a white dwarf will provide a supplement. I wouldn't personally buy any more FW AOS models until they do though. I imagine there are quite a few Dread Saurian owners sweating bullets right now

Yes. The mercenary rules for Mega Gargants were updated with an FAQ to the SOB battletome. It costs you 1 CP in your first hero phase. Otherwise the Mega Gargants are treated just like allies. So they are exempt from receiving enhancements of any kind. As a reminder, the mercenary versions are slightly different since they each gain a special ability for being a mercenary. For example the Gatebreaker gains "Grevious Halitosis"

It needs an FAQ, but it says "setup 3" not "setup up to 3". So I am just trying to interpret it based on similar pre-existing situations, which is how I imagine TO's will rule it on the spot. And if I don't have to set up all the models I summon then it opens up a lot of weird doors that i don't want to deal with lol.

My interpretation is that you MUST setup 3 trees. Though I use the 1" rule rather than the 3" rule for summoned wyldwoods, so I have never had a situation where I couldn't fit them somewhere. I only use the 3" rule on the initial pre game setups. My logic behind this is that other factions aren't allowed to summon incomplete units of models. If they don't fit, they can't summon them. This is key because it lets you screen out an area based on a units foot print. If my opponent could summon 3 blue horrors rather than 10 then it makes screening them out pretty much impossible.

Quick summary of a 1 day, 18 man tourney I attended this weekend. List was Winterleaf, TLA, Branchwraith, 6 Scythes, 6 Swords, 3 Swords, 5 spites, 10 spites, 5 Tree revs, Hive, Cogs, and an Alloplex. Game 1. Veins of Ghur; Sons of Behemat This was a rough matchup for this scenario, since he took the sub that makes his mega gargants worth 30 models on an objective. Also 2 of the 3 objectives landed close together. I was able to kill all his smaller giants but the two megas just camped on objectives and murdered anything that got close. 1 Mega survived until the end of game but that was all he needed. 28-35 giants win. He scored 13 of those points in the last turn so it was a lot closer than it seems! Game 2. The Vice; Flesh Eater Courts Game started out rough. He deepstriked 20 ghouls in my backfield (i anticipated terrorgeists getting there but not ghouls). However he failed his charge. I declared Broken Ranks (kill a battleline unit) and charged 4 units into them. I failed 2 of the easy charges only making it with spites and a shark. Still managed to kill 18/20 but those two survived with inspiring presence. Making me miss my battle tactic. Otherwise we went back and forth exchanging units. His ability to double fight every turn really added up but my hunters did work too. I had hive up most of the game but it continued to fail the 2+ when it counted, making me rely on 9+ charges. I was down 15-17 but we both had Predators Domain as Grand, meaning only one of us could get it. My forests gave me the edge here and I took it 18-17 Sylvaneth win Game 3. Power Struggle; Tzeentch This game wasn't super enjoyable bc the opponent was clearly in a bad mood and played very slow. But tactically it was a very close game. He struggled to take down Hunters with Heed the Spirit song up, but he was a lot more mobile and his shooting and magic really diminished my key units. He easily dispelled Hive every time I attempted it. It came down to the final turn when I charged 6 scythes into his Lord of Change on the center objective. He roared and denied me All out attack, and combined with his -1 to hit locus I only got 6 wounds through, and only 1's and 2's on damage for a whopping 6 damage lol. Time was called before we got to play turn 5. If I had another turn I would have took it but final score ended up being 16-18 Tzeentch wins. Overall I went 1-2, but each game literally came down to the last turn so I was super pleased with the performance given the matchups, and I had a great time. Takeaways -TLA has finally come into his own. Heed the spirit song single handedly takes the army up a notch. My Hunters were ALWAYS on a 3+ save, usually ignoring rend 1. The free forests, ASL, monstrous rampage, heroic actions, and spell also contributed greatly. He will be in every list I take. -I knew going in that Hive was a risk. But between Cogs and Throne of vines I usually got it off when I needed it, but it was deadweight vs Tzeentch and I failed the 2+ in multiple critical situations. -Spites were absolutely deadweight. They were easy Broken Rank points for my opponent and didn't do anything but screen. I will probably convert some of the 50 that I have to Tree Revs lol. -MonsterHero hammer is the new meta. The tourney was won by Belakor+Sigvald Slaanesh, with second place going to Archaon tzeentch. Both went undefeated. There were a lot of Archaons, Belakors, Morathi, Mega Gargants and Kairos/Loc running around.