Sleepa

If you want a very basic 1000 pt Sylvaneth list, I'd suggest something like: Leaders Arch Revenant Branchwraith Branchwraith Battleline 20x Dryads 5x Spite Revenants 5x Tree Revenants Other 6x Kurnoth Hunters (with Scythes to act as your hammer with the Arch Rev, or two units of 3 with whatever weapons you want) I'd suggest Gnarlroot as the glade, as everything that comes with it is useful, and I don't think your main plan with 1000 points of Sylvaneth should be to table someone. Dreadwood or Winterleaf are also fine, but a little more offensive/command point hungry.

I love most of these changes though, PJetski. Very well thought out. I had another idea for a re-work of the Celestant Prime's gimmick: Have the Prime's attacks profile changed to a flat 5 attacks, and keep the rule where he can remain in Azyr; but change the bonus he receives for remaining out of play to collecting one "Divine retribution" token for every turn he remains off the board. Then give him the ability to spend those tokens to either "Always strike first", or get a second pile in and attack. Could even let him use them for multiple consecutive pile-ins, since staying up in the sky(and out of the fight) is a legitimate cost.

I think Prosecutors need a change as well. They currently serve the same purpose as Pallidors, except one would rarely want to take advantage of their 3d6" charge. I propose giving them a charge-based ability along the lines of: "After this unit completes a charge move, roll a number of dice equal to the result of this unit's charge roll. For each result of a 5+, add 1 to the attacks profile of this unit's melee weapons for the following combat phase." Obviously that might be a little too pushed, but as it stands, there's really no reason to ever take hammers over tridents (aside from the models that don't come with the choice of being built with tridents). Beyond the choice of weapons for Prosecutors, they really need either an offensive or defensive push to make them a generally desirable unit at all. Their mobility is in a good place, but the units come in such low model counts and neither survive or deal damage effectively, that I fail to see any reason to seriously consider using them over the alternatives. Given the aesthetic of the models, it makes sense to me to give them an offensive boost, to encourage their use as a fast moving, flanking hammer unit.

You can also take 3 Celestar Ballistas for the price of a Celestant Prime. That's 21 wounds with 36/18" Range, and they sport at 2+ save against shooting in cover. If you want to slowly plink away support heroes, three ballistas can do it just as well at a longer range. Or you could take 6 Longstrike Raptors, which could theoretically remove one support hero per shooting phase. I'm a ballista fan myself, but the competitive community clearly favors the 9-Block of Raptors in Anvilstrike. @jhamslam and @Mark Williams summed up SCE pretty well. Outdated and conservatively under-tuned. It's hard to balance a faction with so many unit options, but erring on the side of 10% of the units in the book, 25% of the Stormhosts, and 0% of the Battalions being competitive, can't possibly have been GW's goal.

The Celestant Prime is a scalpel, and pretty hard to compare to real monsters from most other factions. He's a highly mobile, very reliable assassin, but at the cost of durability and presence. If you drop him in play turn one or two, he's not going to have the punch to kill most hammers or monster units, but waiting until turns 3-5 means those enemy threats have free reign over the battlefield until he can challenge them. Anything reasonably dangerous in close combat will kill him if he doesn't wipe it out on the charge. Honestly, he's a role player, but not a terribly versatile one. I think he needs either a SUBSTANTIAL points decrease, or more preferably, a total rework. Ghal Maraz is better than the Slayer of Kings (for the time being), but it doesn't have a profile that reflect's the legendary weapon. The Prime is a *prime* example of how much power creep the game has seen since release. He's really outdated. You'd probably accomplish more with Gavriel Sureheart and a unit of 5 Evocators. I think that even comes out to the same points as the Celestant Prime. Although you'd have to run Hammers of Sigmar, which has fallen out of favor.

It looks to me like he's showing number of hits scored by a single ballista firing 4 shots, after each successful hit roll has been converted into the corresponding D6 hits. Not certain if the assumption is that each successful hit equals the average result of 3 hits.

FAQ aside, the Prime's Retribution from on high ability reads to me like it stacks every turn. As long as you take heed of the condition: "...at the end of your movement phase, you must declare whether this model will remain in reserve or strike from the heavens. If this model remains in reserve, add 2 to the attacks characteristic of Ghal Maraz until the end of the battle." It seems fairly clear to me that you make that decision at the end of every one of your movement phases, and each time you do, you then proceed to add 2 to the attacks characteristic of Ghal Maraz. I know there's no debate on this thanks to having the rule clarified in the FAQ, but what is the rational behind believing it only happens the one time?

Honestly I agree with this, but what I'm wondering now PJetski, is; what do you think is better in a CV Dracoline list? A Knight Incantor with Cogs, or a Knight Incantor with Purple Sun and some other endless spell like Palisade or Swords?

I'd suggest dropping the Castellant and swapping in Gavriel Sureheart. Take the Hammers of Sigmar Stormhost. That gives you a 6+ FNP Save against unsaved wounds as well as mortal wounds. Gavriel will let you make the charge on the turn you teleport, but if you want the absolutely guarantee the teleport, you'd probably want to sub the Relictor out for a Vexillor. You may as well downgrade the Judicators to Liberators, and add a Ballista while still using the old points values, because it can whittle down the BT from 36" away.

I suspect we'll see even more changes than that, but those would be the highlights they wanted to mention. I wouldn't be surprised if nearly everything got adjusted in our tome.

I hear where you're coming from regarding the resilience in my list. That's one of the reasons I posted it up here for feedback. Funny you should mention the Skullcrushers. They're actually in the list to function as a fast anvil, to intercept and tie up units that might otherwise be headhunting my fragile dps. With bronzed flesh, that's 30 wounds on a 2+ save, which seems glorious to me. The best part, is that they too can't reeeeally be ignored, because if the can get close enough to charge before losing a model, the impact hits they deal (with the unit size bonus) can be almost enough to cripple if not wipe out many Hammer units. The Blood warriors are meant to either screen the real threats or jump on objectives if I don't have to worry about high mobility opponents, and the two units of reavers are literally just chaff screens, taken to zone out charges and deepstriking, or to eat wounds from Blood Sacrifice for those tasty Blood Tithe points. I think in general if a Blades of Khorne player is really on their game, they'll be finding a lot of opportunities to cash in their blood tithe every battle round. I wouldn't worry about it going to waste, unless you get completely tabled in a single turn and go over the cap. I haven't got my army built yet, but I've played against a local Khorne player who always uses his Blood Tithe to summon, and in our game I saw so many windows of opportunity where if he spent 2 to counter a spell, spent 3 to move or charge, or spent 4 to get a free pile-in/attack, I'd have been so screwed.

Forest Folk is probably your best bet in a Gnarlroot list with Alarielle. Dryads are great battleline if you want to capitalize on Gnarlroot's strengths (resilience/attrition) so the only tax you're really paying is the battalion points themselves. One thing to note (since it's already been discussed in this thread): we don't have definite ruling on whether or not the Vesperal Gem can help cast either your TLA's warscroll spell, or the tree summoning spell(Verdant Blessing) all Sylvaneth wizards have for free. The general consensus on the forum is that warscroll spells and Verdant Blessing DO NOT count as being in the Lore of the Deepwood; based on the formatting in the new tome. The Vesperal Gem is still very powerful, but the free Gnarlroot artifact is very good for a support wizard as well, and since Alarielle can't use it, maybe you don't need a second artifact. Alarielle can always choose throne of vines, so her other two spells have +2 to cast. Or you could invest the points in Cogs, and Alarielle could use them to slow down time for an extra spell cast, and the ability to reroll her saves.

I'm thinking about putting this together as a MW-focused list that asks the opponent to constantly adjust their threat-assessment of the table. Looking for feedback. I was think about an Aspiring Deathbringer as the General instead of the Skullgrinder, but I felt like the Command points would more often get spent on the Goretide ability or to save a unit from battleshock, and the Skullgrinder with Hew the For is not a bad bodyguard for the other support heroes.

Omg, I hadn't considered that Evos can manipulate the Cogs. They can't cast them though, correct? As I understand it, they can only ever cast Empower, or whatever they choose from the Lore of Invigoration. So Evos on Dracolines could turn the Cogs, then cast Empower and.... Celestial Blades on themselves? I'd need my LA to cast Azyrite Halo on them, unless I also took an Incantor. My concern with Geminids and Cogs is that they cast on a 7, and as Requizen mentioned; even the Meteor casting on a 6 can be unreliable. Have you found that Geminids and Cogs to be powerful enough to take the chance on, even if you can't resolve them? I imagine that you just invest those 100 points and try not to count on having the bonuses, but leverage them as best you can if they DO resolve? I was thinking that was actually the most reliable part of the comet, since it casts on a 6, and can be cast from the back line for a turn or two before my opponent can have wizards in range to unbind. I hear you though, the armies that are legitimately strong at casting/unbinding are a huge part of the meta right now, and I'd never expect to win in a casting battle. with SCE (We really just aren't a respectable magic army) My current 2k draft is looking like this: LA on Drac - Pride Leader (Whatever command trait for the Stormhost I choose) Lord Ordinator Knight Heraldor Lord Relictor (Translocate, whatever artefact comes with the Stormhost) Lord Castellant 5x Sequitors 5x Sequitors 5x Sequitors 3x Ballistas 6x Dracolines 1940 points. I was planning to cut the Castellant for an Incantor, then cut the Relictor for some endless spells. I don't own a 4th Ballista, but if they don't get hit in the GHB 2019, and my older models don't become viable options, I'll probably buy another. Any suggestions?

Ok I'm not far off. The last draft I had was AT (had previously tried CV and Anvils) I was looking at running the meteor instead of a 4th Ballista. Is that at all viable? Is Pride Leader hands-down the best mount trait for the LA?

Do you have any examples of competitive lists using a LA on Dracoline? I've been trying to tune a list with 6 kitties and it's been a struggle.

I'm pretty sure the only reason to ever run two TLAs is to meet the reqs for LotC. It's tied for cheapest battalion and the ability isn't completely useless. I completely agree with you though, I don't see the point in ever taking two TLAs. I don't understand why they didn't at least make the TLA a native double-caster. 300 points is so much for a single spell wizard with no bonuses to cast or unbind. It's not like TLAs are a force to be reckoned with in melee either. Three decent attacks that go down as they take wounds, and one very mediocre attack. My theory is that their point-costing algorithm really values the new stomp and "Walk the spirit paths" highly, because otherwise these things should be 240 points, max. I think the new stomp is also why they didn't buff the heck out of tree lords. It remains to be see if it's actually work taking these models. Now that every wizard in a Sylvaneth army knows the woods spell, it might be a better use of points to just take Drycha and a bunch of Branchwraiths, with maybe an Arch-Revenant in there for good measure. I really want to explore some Sylvaneth builds, but the "new" TLAs are a huge let-down, and they make LotC a super-awkward battalion.

Like PJetski said, you have the core of an Anvilstrike list. If you wanted to take something with just the models you have, you could try: Lord Aquilor - General Lord Relictor Knight Azyros Knight Incantor Liberators (Unit of 5) Judicators (Unit of 5) Judicators (Unit of 5) Longstrikes (Unit of 9) Evocators (Unit of 10) Aetherwings (Unit of 3) Aetherwings (Unit of 3) It's a fragile version of the army, but the Judicators can poke at things while holding objectives, and the Aetherwings can try to screen your Longstrikes. You'd have two teleport abilities with the Lord Aquilor and Lord Relictor if you choose the Translocation prayer.

If anything, I think we should expect some downward point shifts for many unit choices in Stormcast. There's a chance Evocators on foot and Longstrikes get a slight points bump, but I'd honestly be surprised. Sequitors are one of the best heavy troops in the game, but they have a real tax in terms of your general choice, if you want them as battleline. Since I doubt GW plans to drop sweeping changes to half the war scrolls in our battle tome, I'd imagine we're going to see some point reductions. Paladins in particular, and the entire vanguard family of models are all point-costed out of being viable choices for anything competitive. The whole army crumples to mortal wounds, and it seems like every new battle tome(notable exception: Gitz) is getting multiple cost-effective ways to vomit out MWs. Vandus and the Celestant Prime are laughably overcosted for how easily they can removed from the board. Castigators could go down to 50 points per 3 and I bet they still wouldn't even become ubiquitous in lists, since they can't fill battleline. Stormcast really suffer from what seems like an incomplete points-balancing pass before having their new book released. They have some very viable AOS 2.0 unit choices, but a huge segment of the units just don't compare favourably to this new edition, and haven't received a discount to at least warrant their testing.