Smooth criminal

Khorne generally wants to run in smaller units because all our warscrolls suck in big blobs because of base sizes and melee range. And to avoid drop count bloat you'll want those in battalions. The only exempts are mongers with long chains and using BoC units.

Yes, absolutely. However it is also true in relation to other factions, one-two options are always much better than the rest.

Take 1st turn, run everything on objectives turn 1 and sit there. Wall off with judgements. Use blood points from dead heroes to summon stuff, bonus points for stuff that can tag longstrikes into melee, take blood sacrifice to summon faster. Position in a way so he needs to roll high to charge your dudes on the objectives. He can only retake objectives well with desolators and those can be only in 1 place. You can give BT a no shooting realm cloak, this way he can get to longstrikes in 2 turns forcing him to do something about him. Bronze flesh Skarbrand, put bloodsecrator in cover and give him something against mws. They are obviously dying, but it can skew the math a little maybe forcing him to not split shooting attacks. Probably a good idea to hold back Skarbrand turn 1 to not get him shot for CP and smash the desolators next turn if he manages to survive. You get 2 turns of shooting against you no matter what you do, but if you go first you have a bit higher chance to win roll-off and the objectives will be free.

Sure. Posted this some time ago, still works. If we take rend into account it's reapers > letters/reavers (have fun positioning them) > crushers charge > mongers > dogs > warriors. StD falls behind. Not adjusted by points, so I suspect mongers may actually be the best since they are the most cost-effective unit in Khorne.

No, this is per combat phase. You can just say that wiped out unit of warriors gets to attack a second time. Warriors deal 1mw per 2 dead warriors approximately against no rend. Mongers deal 1mw per 1 dead on average to heroes, 1.3mw to units (so 10 mongers deal 13) . The only notable thing about warriors vs. other stuff is that warriors get 50% more damage from a bloodsecrator/monger buff while dogs/mongers get only 25%. That changes math a bit, but they are still at the bottom of damage dealer food chain in Khorne.

Technically you are right, battletome rules trump core rules. RAW you don't need a hero. However core rules require you to have a her to use any command ability. Good luck trying to convince opponents and organisers that you don't need a hero.

Unbuffed against 4+ 10 dogs ~6-7w 20 warriors ~8w 10 mongers ~8-9w, ~12w with charge Each buff adds 15-50% depending on buff and unit Varanguard have terrible combat math and you can't mark them for buffs. Same for splinterfangs.

You move your stuff 3-6" away from them, all the strike first/last stuff fizzles against you because it can't reach you, then you you start fighting, they will still retaliate. Much harder to do on opponent's turn, you need to practice the proper positioning of screen. Take note Tyrants ability and Reapers ability require you to be within 3" to activate, so it gets even trickier there.

Can't say about khorgoraths vs. bestigors, depends on your host I think. If you have a thirster you obviously take bestigors and host that allows to attack twice. If it's just bestigors vs. khorgoraths then you can take khorgorath host. The drop count most important jumps are 3->4, 4->5 and 8+, the rest don't matter as much. I.e. 6 drop list will get to choose about as much as 5 drop because majority of people play either 4- or 8+.

For gorecleaver axe probably. Otherwise spear, can't go wrong with mortal wounds.

Weak attack profile. Skullgrinders and exalteds are way better for merely 80pt.

Magnetize the right hand into whip/chain/big axe.

I tried putting up together 2 battalion lists and none of them clicked together well enough. In my opinion it makes sense only in 1 case, when you do a 2-3 drop list and play Goretide to do the 1st turn alpha with reavers/warriors to whack opponent before he buffs himself and also tarpit him in his deploy. If you don't do that there is no reason for second battalion, because it taxes the list too much with unnecessary picks and battalion cost. Dark feast will absolutely work for it, but Bloodforged while being a decent battalion in its' own right won't help that gameplan. The best complimentary battalion in my opinion is Gore pilgrims since you can have bloodsecrator aura reach your fast dudes with it. The problem will be dealing with tough units since all you have in feast+pilgrims will be warriors and reavers. I guess you can mw people to death with 3 priest or maybe try to fit a skarbrand/bt thirster.

Wow, that's sad. Anyway I'm here to report about going to tournament this weekend. Went 2-1, ended up third place so it's some kinda success I guess. The list was: Games. Game 1. Focal points against Stormcast stardrake, staunch arcanum + 20 sequitor brick, priest, castellan, incantor, 2x5 archers. I got to pick turns, went first, rolled forward to grab objectives and put his wizards in WoK bubble. Opponent bombarded me with mws the whole game, most of which weren't spell-based. I failed to unbind the comet first time even with +2 and then unbound the second one for blood points. WoK, crushers and mongers got tied in a long combat against sequitor brick and arcanum which left everyone dead but exactly 1 sequitor with 1 wound standing on objective. Double tapping WoK and mongers blowing up did most the work. Crushers botched their charge quite badly. Skarbrand killed 2x5 bow guys that dropped to lure him away in 1 phase of combat without any dice rolls, then proceeded to kill a Stardrake in another round. Karanak chewed on a priest who teleported to grab objective. At the end the opponent was left with 2 home objectives controlled by 1 model each so I won. Major victory for Khorne. Notes: I was reaffirmed in my decision to make mongers the main support instead of bloodsecrator, because he would die to non-spell mws very fast. Crushers really need some +charge help to pull off their thing. WoK needs some sort of combat artifact to carry a combat by himself. Game 2. Battle for the pass against Moon gobbos 2x60 stabba bricks, 2x spore fanatic guys, 4 assorted shamans, loonboss, 15 boingrots. I got to pick turns, went first, rolled forward to grab objectives (remembering thing about how hard is to dislodge gobbos from objectives unless you grab them first) and put his wizards in WoK bubble. Exactly same as Stormcast game. He ran forward, failed a lot of his spells and got the rest unbound. WoK, 1 dog unit and mongers killed one blob of grots in a long combat with the help of double tapping. Skarbrand and crushers killed the other one. Skarbrand smashed half the 60 brick in one pile in and hillariously whiffed 5 normal axe attacks on 2 fanatics, which prevented him from piling up and finishing the blob, afterwards he was poked to death. Boingrots cleaned up the WoK flank, but died to double tapping juggernauts and karanak afterwads. Opponent hadn't much left after that to fight with. Major victory for Khorne. Notes: -hit really sucks for all our 4+ hit attacks, Skarbrand included, thankfully gobbos die in droves to his mortal wounds, wok and juggernaut rhino attacks. Don't be greedy with Skarbrand's normal axe, it's very wonky profile. Divert the mw axe on important targets, then let the normal axe Game 3. Better part of valour against Fireslayers, 30x hearthguard, 20x hearthguard, magmadroth, assorted heroes in a battalion to make hearthguard fight twice and host which makes hearthguard fight first. Yep, it's that one matchup where you hate your life. He's lower drop, makes me go first. I run forward with dogs as close as possible, my desperate plan is to win a round 2 roll off and somehow position Skarbrand to not die to strike fist and double smash his brick. Meanwhile the flying WoK should jump over another blob and go for his backline objectives. He smashes dogs turn 1, wins roll off, smashes the Skarbrand turn 2 with his megablob, but gets bogged down with other blob on WoK+crusher flank, much thanks to bronze flesh on WoK. So WoK jumps over his blob, goes into backline and captures 1 objective. I still can win if I win another roll off, let all my objectives tick and then next turn burn them and threaten his last objective with WoK. Sadly, I lose the favored roll off and the game. Still that was a 60% chance to win an almost unwinnable game otherwise, so I'm fine with that. Major loss for Khorne. Notes: I think the firedude toughness is manageable for thirsters, but that strike first is an absolute pain to play around. I'm not really sure how to do it without using 6" pile in. General notes: Generally list lived up to what I expected, needs to figure out details and some matchups (like what to do against lists that don't let Skarbrand fight). Skarbrand is very good as expected. Point him at things and they die, often without using the dice. At this point managing Skarbrand effectively should be the main priority. Mongers are great screen for Skarbrand and thirsters in general. They are bulky in wounds meaning at least 1 usually survives, they don't mind dying, they have big bases that prevent opponent from hitting thirsters, but still let thirsters attack through with their 2". WoK projected his big antimagic dong on the whole table, but I'm not sure how good that is. I wish he had combat artifact, but fail to see any good ones for him. Maybe just +1 damage? Crushers were average. The 6 dude charge bonus is absolutely a trap rule, but they are bulky enough to survive and double tap back with their 3+/3+ rhino attacks. I wish there was a better demon unit to take, I think I want to split them at the very least. Dogs were whatever. They are fast at least. Karanak was meh, mostly used as mobile leadership bubble. His d3 mws on successful unbind/dispel actually mattered, don't forget about it. Bronze flesh priest overperformed. 3+ thirster can survive much much more than a 4+ thirster. I think this is also literally the only way to protect Skarbrand from shooting. Sacrifice priest underperformed. He's sitting there at the altar and spamming bps and still can fail (25% fail chance is a lot) meaning that's a 100pt model doing absolutely nothing when the whiff happens. Sure, some times the additional bp was clutch, but if this 100pt was a different model maybe it could earn those bps instead, at the very least by dying. 2+ ignore spell artifact was relevant. WoK is susceptible to chip damage and debuff from spells otherwise. Talisman of burning blood wasn't very relevant, but I don't see any better artifact to put on a priest. Aetherquartz brooch maybe? Still, +1 charge helps Skarbrand to not whiff on a charge. Every turn of every game I wished I had something to teleport around, which makes me want to have Skarr. He's also a good source of bps from him respawning and dying. The list really lack any kind of wound reroll and unless I'm missing something Khorne demons don't get that. And that sucks because a lot of my thirster attacks whiffed on that 3+ to wound. The conservative update to list would be: The experimental update would be switching WoK for UF, Karanak for Skulltaker and battalion for Slaughterhost. That would increase drop count by 1 and have considerably less antimagic.

There is no basic rule that states different priests can't chant same prayer. There is a khorne book rule that says blood blessings can be used only once per turn, but Blood boil isn't a blessing. Compared to that there is a basic rule that says different wizards can't cast same spell.

Oh boy, will that anti-ethereal/negate rule require a bunch of faq'ing for every single instance of differently named ethereal/negate in the game. Aos needs to have keywords for abilities at this point. Also note how we switched "tome trumps basic rules" paradigm for "tome trumps other tome" free for all hellscape of gamedesign .

Having all races in a single list is bad because you generally want at least 1 build around battalion and those don't support mixing. In fact BoC just straight up requires you to rake a battalion to mark them. It's better to just switch races for variety. Also stay clear of StD until they get a book.

Priest gives you tithes which you can convert in a number of things, he's better than skarr. I would take skarr instead of 1 dog unit.

The rolls themselves aren't the issue. The issue is bad habit of GW to put very strong effects behind high variance like "do bazillion mws on a nat roll of 6". No one likes these, the user hates when it doesn't go off (which actually happens more often, so the user hates them more), the opponent hates when it does. Meanwhile we can't completely remove rng elements or the game could be completely pre-calculated, that's boring. Generic effects like run and charge should stay random, they have built-in mitigators that cost you resources anyway, they are fine the way they are. As for gloomspite squigs, yes, their move should totally be X"+dY" if only to increase their competitive power level.

I think the best thing we have for small formats are warriors or reavers with goretide CP ability, gets a bricky unit where you want it turn 1. Also goretide makes bloodsecrator general into a very good fighter. Skullreapers are bad because people tend to bring small elite units or monsters. I think the next best damage dealers after them in mortals are heroes. Khorgoraths may be a good idea, seems better than crushers. If you take priests I don't think dogs will be useful, priests cover the unbinds and dogs don't fight all that well and you already have battleline filled. I'd go with: bloodsecrator, bloodstoker, priest, skarr, 6xreavers, dark feast battalion and you have 320 points leaftover which gives you exactly 10 mongers (for skarr's ability) and a 40pt endless prayer. You actually can buff reavers to 4 attacks per dude here which will make them able to clear chaff off objectives by themselves.

Well, crushers and cannons are better than big letter bricks and the only other elite demon option are thirsters. So you either pigeonhole yourself into thirster spam or take those. I agree that wrath&rapture is probably a better deal, but you'll need to sell slaanesh half for that to be true.

Demons: 2x sc demons (build heralds from thrones as separate ones and thrones as cannons) 1x5 doggos (for summons) 1x thirster (magnetize) This sets you up for pretty much any demon battalion. It sucks that there is no separate secrator now, but you can probably buy any armored hero and give him icon from blodletter kit, you will have bunch of those. Mortals: 2x sc goreblade warband (build second secrator and lord as some other armored hero, like aspiring or exalted) 1x5 skullreapers (use bits from this kit to build warriors from sc kit into more skullreapers) 1x5 doggos (for summons) This sets you up for skulltake or slaughterborn, the ones where you want to be with mortals anyway. I think you can skip on shrine+priest+judgements on 1k points or below. Obviously shrine helps, but it's not important unless you play priests and there are better heroes than priests you must fill out first. I think the demons are cheaper to start with (and better competitively, reapers of vengeance, duh), since with mortals you will still need at least 1 sc demons at some point later for summons and a thirster.

Let's see what you can do for a CP: -fight/move/shoot second time -give your whole army rerolls/pile in 6"/battleshock immunity/mortal wounds on 6s/etc. -bring back a full unit -summon a 100-200pt unit No, I don't think ignoring battleshock is particularly strong use of a CP compared to that. If your army is using CPs to save your big bricks from crumbling then it doesn't do any of those things, I would rather do them.

I would argue that you should include skarbrand in every competitive khorne list. Skarbrand + fight twice = everything in melee with him dies. He's the king of melee, nothing else in Khorne comes close for 380pt, next thing would be skullreapers, but they can't fight twice. And he's super easy to include because he needs no support besides secrator that you already take.

I think it would be Gore pilgrims based list. Go low drop, run forward turn 1 with your secrator 24" bubble and summon skulls. You will also have 3 priests for unbinds/endless spell clearing. The rest of the list should be focused on dealing damage, probably reapers of vengeance with thirsters (you can fit 2 at 1.5k and max out hero slots) or karanak or whatever. That one battalion with wok+karanak+dogs is a good alternative, but I think that big secrator bubble is still the king of antimagic.