Belper

Vanguard hunters are terrible and have always been terrible. Liberators are better if you want cheap battleline, sequitors are better if you want good battleline, Judicators are better if you wanna shoot something. With everything in the army being able to deepstrike and how absolutely pitiful the hunters are in combat, even their unique outflank ability is near useless.

That's not a prayer OR an aura. It's a buff ability that requires the hag to be within 3" at the start of the hero phase. Also, I didn't say 'buff' I said 'auras' of which there are only 2. HaggNarr and the Cauldron buff. Cauldron buff is already wholly within. Well technically 3 with +1 bravery but that doesn't count. 'Wholly within 8'? You're not trying to balance DoK, you're trying to eliminate them from the game. We can do DoK witchbrew to wholly within 8 if Heathguard Berzerkers go to 7+ ethereal saves, the Keeper of secrets go up to 1200pts and are mandatory, Skaven become immune to bravery bonuses/morale mitigation and get -2 to hit against anything that has a higher bravery than them, FEC can't use command abilities until turn 4, stormcast get -2 to hit rolls the turn any unit deepstrikes but also if no units are held in deepstrike reserve, Seraphon have to summon 2 units under their opponent's control for every unit they summon, idoneth deepkin suffer d6 mortal wounds and -1 to hit and wound whenever they're in cover or they fight before a unit they're in combat with and Sylvaneth suffer d3 mortal wounds every turn they're within 6" of a wyldwood. Not gonna lie, by the end of that I was just having fun coming up with rules changes that would totally destroy their respective army.

I generally see SoS as a second block unit. After I take 30 WE then I take 30 SoS. I also don't like large units of SoS with bucklers because they're pretty pillowfisted.

Europe then? NA generally doesn't do grab bag terrain.

They already have 'wholly within' on their auras except for the Haggnarr CT. And if you're going to change hagnarr to 'wholly' we need the bubble up to 14" at least.

Atm, nothing in stormcasts is all that competitive tbh. We mostly have gimmick deepstrike lists and 'brake check' shooting lists. (A brake check list is a list that either you have the tools to deal with, and you win with little or no effort, or you don't and you get wiped off the table immediately'.

The wording is pretty clear tbh. Is it the end of the movement phase? Yes. Did the Celestant prime stay in reserves? Yes. Cool, +2 attacks.

Updated list for GHB 2019 Morathi 480 Cauldron 330 Hag Queen 90 Hag Queen 90 30 Witches 300p 10 SoS 120 10 SoS 120 10 Blood Sisters 280 5 Heartrenders 90 Last 100pts I'm thinking any combination of 2 of Aethervoid Pendulum, Emerald Lifeswarm, or a Command Point. With the new generic CAs being amazingly useful for Morathi, I decided to keep her in the list despite her maybe not being the most efficient use of the points. Our local area doesn't really use realm of battle (because it sucks) so she's not as strong as she would be with 7 extra spells to choose from, but she's still a uniquely survivable beatstick with good magic support. The endless spells are for if I'm in a position where I either don't need mindrazor for whatever reason (playing nighthaught or extra rend/damage being overkill) or if I don't need to transform morathi turn 1. 10 Blood Sisters over more SoS/WE because their mortal wound output is valuable and they do better unbuffed than SoS and WE do and as such are solid 'lone rangers'. Only 5 heartrenders because I find that anything that can be done with 10 could probably have been done with 5. Also, I'm notorious for forgetting about them. Aethervoid Pendulum over Purple Sun because it's easier to control and I don't need help killing hordes, I need help killing 2+ saves. Emerald Lifeswarm because being able to restore even a handful of witch aelves/wound over the course of a game is pretty valuable.

There is an absolutely hilarious amount of very suspect assumptions and logic here. 1. You start talking about active tournament players being a minority of the player base (which is true) and then switch over to describing competitive matched play players as if that is not in actuality a different subset of players. A tourament player is a competitive matched play player, a competitive matched play player is not necessarily a tournament player. You ignore non-competitive matched play entirely. 2. You make the assumption that the only contribution events have to GW's bottom line is what is purchased by those players for that event, which is pretty reductionist. 3. You're making some really wackadoo assumptions about when and where each group plays. Tournament players are just as likely to play primarily at home and non-tournament players are just as likely to play primarily at stores. The community makeup determines that. If everyone in your area but you and your 2 friends do narrative, you're probably not gonna traipse down to the FLGS to roflstomp fluff players. You're going to play each other to get competitive games. Vice versa is also true. Community supersedes playstyle in this regard. 4. It's actually unlikely that tournament players are the most vocal online. What IS true is that gameplay creates the most discussion. You attribute people talking about the mechanics and balance of the game as being tournament players, but EVERYONE talks about gameplay and balance. People will proudly proclaim they'd never even consider going to a competitive event in the same sentence they give their opinion on a unit being OP or a rule being exploitable. 5. You make the assumption that tournament players either never or very rarely, buy anything that isn't a competitive option. My 12000pts of stormcast alone is enough to call BS on that. 6. You assume that the board of directors A. Actually does that, which is 60/40 at best and B. That their standard is 'makes a lot of money' rather than 'well, we're not losing anything.' Also doesn't really address the fact that a significant number of kits are popular choices for other game systems. 7. Your last paragraph is deeply confused. You start talking about a 'significant proportion' and then switch to 'largest proportion' mid sentence. And I know I mentioned this before, but you've narrowed the scope from where you've started (competitive matched play scunched down into 'people who go to tournaments'). 8. The entire paragraph also(intentionally or otherwise) makes the assertion that all of GW's current kits sell well, which is ******, competitiveness be damned. 9. AND THERE YOU GO AGAIN you started at matched play, shrunk down to tournament play and then expanded back out to matched play again without batting an eye. If you had just made the point that 'the majority of people don't play at tournaments', the response would have been 'duh'. Instead you tried to conflate a bunch of stuff together and tangle everything up in a bunch of nonsense assumptions and lost the point entirely.

Kill the Haq queens if you can. Other than that. Other than that, all you have to do is deny charge priority and wait until I fail blessing of khaine or leap out of the haggnarr bubble. Then just watch out for Morathi. In a list without morathi, REALLY focus down the hag queens and medusa, also try to hit me hard on the unit that doesn't have blessing.

BCR has a battletome. Also, that list is Suspect AF. Stormcast are A tier in Pjetski's wildest fever dreams and GG aren't that low.

Oh my god, I've been looking for words to describe why certain models are useless right up until they're broken for years and you finally gave them to me. Example: The old Black knight warscroll was useless at 80pts. If you dropped their points though, people still wouldn't take them EVER...right up until the exact tipping point where they go from no one takes them.to everyone maxes out on them and you start seeing literally HUNDREDS. It's because points change the efficacy of offense and defense at the same time. With the old black knights having less damage in a 5 man unit than a single liberator prime, balancing out the points to where the offense wasn't actively detrimental would have broken them DEFENSIVELY.

Did you send Morathi in with the spearhead or did you bring her in with the rest of the stuff?

Except it doesn't though? The changes are so minimal that most skew lists are unaffected or not particularly different. Stormcast shoot only lists stayed points neutral, stormcast drop lists went up slightly but not enough for other strategies to be viable, DoK has to tighten their belts a little but they're not going to take any different units (blood stalkers would be mediocre at 100 for 5), LoN will just swap out what their big 'rez this' unit will be, Idoneth lists probably won't change AT ALL and nothing else really had much in the way of skew. Slaanesh, FEC, Skaven, and Fyreslayers I don't believe we've seen yet. The changes are fine and they smooth out the powercurve a bit, but they didn't dramatically alter anything. You're not suddenly gonna see Blood Stalker spam or Desolator Bombs or Kharadron (ever), you're just going to have an extra half turn longer before the competitive lists table you. Notable exception for Seraphon who might just be strong enough to hit the top tables again (because they honestly only needed a small push).

So can i stack gnawholes on top of a Loonshrine, on top of a Korne tower? There's a contradiction between the book saying not to stack terrain on top of each other and the Gnawhole not saying I can't do that.

Yeah, and if your opponent gets hit by a meteor and fails into a portal to a different dimension, you can win by default. Their are more practical ways to kill a FEC Gristlegore than relying on...jesus 1340pts of models getting lucky AND hoping your opponent doesn't know what an azyros does. Especially when you also devoted your Stormhost choice to the task and it STILL probably needs a double turn to work.

If you're AT, in a double turn, and are obscenely lucky, against a Gristlegore that doesn't have their shield spell up, with a unit of 8 desolators, and a stardrake, that are somehow both completely in range AND at full strength. If you're not on the double turn, you can't kill it. If you're not AT, you do mediocre damage. If the stardrake missed ITS shot, you only moderately wound it. If it has it's shield up you lightly scratch it, if you're down to 6 desolators you do essentially no damage.

Gonna have to poop on the parade here a bit.(Side bar: Your chart is inflating the value of the breath attack. You'd only get those numbers in a double turn, never in a single battle round) Unfortunately, running them at 8 is suicide. Especially one unit that ANOTHER famous 800pt unit can wash off the table in a single round from behind a wall of skeletons or lock down with anti-movement debuffs. If you're taking them at max attacks you're taking 6 and kinda hoping for the best. You also have to consider that a lord Arcanum buffing Dracolines gives magic support already, whereas a Stardrake Desolator list has to buy wizards also. Also, you guys underestimating just how much of a burden being forced to take a drakesworn Templar is. For 460pts, it's pretty subpar. The thing hits like a wet noodle and without the reroll 1s shield dies to harsh language People are overestimating the breath attack. Even hitting on 3s it does basically nothing (relative to being a 600pt unit that pretty much demands at least 720pts of support characters to be decent. (A Castellant and an incantor are MANDATORY. You should be bringing a heraldor too as well.) Going AT for their shooting attack is pretty optimisitic considering you start out at an average of 3 MW per player turn. Look at a theoretical desolator list: 460 for a Drakesworn, 800 for the desolators, min liberator battleline brings us up to 1560pts. Castellant and incantor are mandatory so that's 1700 into 1820. Heraldor and a command point put you at 1970. That's a essentially a 2 unit army. Even going down to 6 desolators only gives you room for 1 extra unit and if you drop the stardrake then it makes the desolators even weaker for how much you have invested. They are painfully vulnerable to mortal wounds. Without even so much as a way to unbind, most caster armies will peel off the +2 attacks in a round. Your only defense is to skydrop them at which point both evocators and paladins would probably be better options. Finally, at brave 7 you'll likely never get to use the CA because you'll be spending all your CP trying to keep them from running away, not to mention what Mindrazored WE or Morathi will do to them with no staunch... The biggest thing though is...neither unit is very good. None of the Cavalry are. Palladors make a decent enough meat shield at 180 for 15 wounds, but they're all pretty well outclassed by what can be done with drop lists or shooting.

Shields. I honestly forget they even have paired weapons sometimes.

I thought gitmob just got rolled into gloomspite with the rest of the goblins?

Heartrenders are pretty much mandatory outside of cauldron guard lists, where lifetakers do a poor imitation of them. Just having a unit that can drop behind your opponent (or clear off stormcast birds, which I believe will be a bigger deal with longstrikes going down) is incredibly usefull.

Mine went up 110. Which unfortunately means I can't really afford to run Morathi anymore. At least at bigger events.

Stormcast also struggle with their core design. They have 2 gimmick lists you can build (Deepstrike bomb or Longstrikes with birdies) and that's pretty much it. 50+ units and more than a dozen battalions and they have two semi-viable builds.

Sequitors went up 130/440 Palladors are finally at what they should have started at. I think at 160 they'd be a staple meaty distraction unit, at 180 they're still just a little too pricey considering nothing in the army really supports them.

...wat. First of all, Hagg Narr is a Temple ability, not a battalion. Secondly, it's honestly not that big of a deal without Blessing of Khaine on the unit. Thirdly, the reason you see Hagg Narr over anything else is because the army has no use for additional offense and gets a lot out of additional defense. If shooting gets better or HaggNarr gets nerfed it'll be 100% Khailebron all the time. ESPECIALLY when you consider that both Draichi and Kraith force you to take absurdly useless relics in an army that has terrible generic command traits but TERRIFIC general relics. Finally, this is plenty. The average tournament list is going up anywhere from a 130 to 250pts. It's enough that it likely pushes Morathi straight out of competitive contention (the how's and whys on that are a bit detailed but TL:DR she makes stuff hard to fit.)