Kasper

https://discord.gg/vZB2zw7a

I watched this and imo it had nothing to do with the double turn. There was a lot of bad plays but it was also a display of how incredibly powerful dragons/fulminators are. Imo they missed the ballpark on 3 SCE units and they all pack a little bit too much punch. So much damage is frontloaded. Half the SBGL army was gone turn 1. Im pretty sure the game would have been over regardless of there being a priority roll or not. Sure the game would have been prolonged a little but it was an EXTREMELY uphill battle for the SBGL player at this point being 1.000 pts down (805 pts in 2 monster heroes and a bunch of zombies from shooting). The battleplan favours armies that can get up into the opponent's grill and remove stuff to burn objectives. I dont see the SBGL player doing this after having lost so much turn 1. So yeah, the Living Cities player getting a double turn sealed the deal for sure, but the game was already lost before the Living Cities player had his first turn.

But I am doing that, because I do play with the priority mechanic. I like it. Thats why I play with it. Maybe you should play 10ish games without it and get a feeling for how the game is, knowingly you can never get double turned? I have, and thats why I play with it now. My point is the comparison is weird because there are multiple mechanics in AoS that support the priority mechanic and can cause you to give the turn away. The correct play is often to not take the double turn.

Why the Plague Monks etc? Feels kinda odd to me since theres no synergy with the rest of your list. Might as well run Untamed Beasts which gives a pregame move.

You dont have burning an objective, stackable buffs until your next hero phase etc. in chess though. Its a weird comparison.

It was hopium going full ham. To me 3 flat MW was the only thing keeping the model a viable option. It just feels objectively bad/worse than a GUO now.

Was hoping for something that would excite me to empty my wallet the coming month(s) but..

I think aiming for Horrorghast/Shards of Valagharr is much better with the Rot Coven. Rancid is great in very few situations but in your average game you are not gonna benefit from the spell, plus you are forced into Spellportal for it to ever go off. You generally want long range reach with them to prevent them from dying to any shooting whatsoever. The issue is that your average club game or tournament wont have great line of sight blocking terrain so the little dudes are probably fairly ****** due to all the long range shooting that is in the current meta. If you play with loads of terrain or in a meta without longstrikes/bowsnakes/dinos/sentinels etc. etc., then they can probably perform pretty good.

The app is now updated to show Rotigus as D3 MWs which means hes 100% shelved for me. Too many hoops you have to jump through in order to "maybe" get noticable MW damage. His profile is worse than a normal GUO so his warscroll spell is literally all he brings. I dont think Slimux is worth bringing for just 1 extra summoning pt a turn alone. You need to use his hit and charge buffs to Beasts but 2 is simply not enough IMO. If you swap Rotigus +Slimux for either Bloab + Orghotths + 1 Beast of Nurgle the list becomes undeliably better IMO.

One would think that the winners of tournaments would be very varied if the DT/priority mechanic was so awful and gamebreaking, but its kinda weird how top players consistently score high/win the tournaments. I suppose this means they either use cheater dice or they just have straight up extreme luck with games. I cant imagine any other reason for this phenomenon.

It sounds like neither of you play with the DT in mind and are super aggressive or reckless. This can pay off, but its a strategy you bank on that also can heavily backfire. Im not really surprised you hate the DT if you dont respect it and play around it. Play some games without it if you hate it so much and post your findings. Mine has been that the game turns ****** under the current rules.

Psst, if you really hate the double turn that much, just dont play with it. I have, and it was absolutely horrible and it made me realize how important the double turn is for the game.

Stench seems alright but from my own experience the actual impact is very limited. Having to be wholly within 7" is quite a big ask and stopping units from issuing commands is generally not that big of a deal, unless you are fighting on a far flank with no general/hero nearby or you manage to "gotcha" your opponent with the ability by getting within 7" of a nearby hero. Otherwise it just seems to do nothing. Its generally difficult to get entire units wholly within 7" of him imo. As you mentioned his profile is also kinda weak. Hes just tanky which is obviously valuable. Personally I prefer Spume because he allows deepstriking Orgotths as an example.

What are you expecting the FAQ to change? I mean Blightkings do better damage, its just that they are slow so its the age old situation where you sacrifice a bit of damage for superior movement.

Ahh sheeeet here we go again.

I think I would take Hold the Line over the other grand strat you have chosen. Its a lot of wounds that the opponent needs to kill. Personally not a fan of the Lord of Plagues (or Lord of Blights for that matter) and would rather invest those points into more units or upgrading one of your heroes to something else. I think the Rotbringer Sorc is interesting with his diseased endless spell. My only issue is that without any rerolls/+cast its a bit too unreliable to my taste having to cast Spellportal and then Racid and hope both of them succeed and the opponent fails unbinding both spells. I prefer consistency, but not everyone plays like that. Rancid is also hugely matchup dependent, although when it hits right, it hits super hard.

For the FAQ I'm anticipating: Trees clarified to be 1 CP per tree Rewrite noxious artefact since it does nothing now Clarification on how Rotcoven works - Does it take up 3 leader slots? Is it a single entry? If a single, what happens if you take an artefact? It feels a little vague and confusing. Wishlisting is that Rotigus is changed from D3 MWs to 3 MWs - In the app it says 3 MWs but the tome says D3. D3 is terrible and I doubt he will be played much in this case, with 3 MWs I could see him making it into my lists. I very much doubt we are gonna see point changes, warscroll changes or rule changes at all. The book is what it is.

I havent tried with multiplicative trees. Credible people with connections have also confirmed that its being changed to 1 per tree anyways, so I see little point in playing it that way. I feel like our summoning is already quite good as is with a list that doesnt focus on summoning at all. Like if you deepstrike your opponent you are quickly getting 7 summoning points a turn which is a lot. I typically dont summon anything turn 1 but it means I can summon 1 BoN or 3 Nurglings every turn afterwards which I have found matters a lot for holding and grabbing objectives later in the game.

Yes please, I want Plague Claws in my Nurgle army

I dont think this is true at all. You kinda mention it yourself - Some units are managable in low quantities but once a certain number has been amassed, it becomes siginificantly stronger. Obviously 1+1=2 but Im talking about an exponential growth in power. Mega Gargants wouldnt be too terrible on their own, but when you combine 4 together it becomes neigh impossible for many armies. You see this with people running multiple little giants - The army is ALOT weaker. A single Salamander is not that impressive, but when you spam the unit the output becomes absurd and melts stuff. The Cockatrice is a pretty bad unit on its own, but Adam spammed the unit and actually did really well to a couple tournaments. Yes it isnt broken, but the power of the unit was much higher when in higher numbers. It goes from doing "meh" damage to anything within 10" to basically removing it. Pink Horrors - A single unit of 10 is "just" 50 wounds, its a lot but you can usually deal with it. But if the opponent spams them and field like 60 horrors on the other hand, you reach a breakpoint where you are no longer able to deal with it Etc. etc., the list goes on. Dragons follow the same pattern. Alphaing a single dragon or two isnt a big deal and they wont be doing that much damage, but if you send 10 into the opponent's face then you have the ranged output to remove screens and severely hurt units.

Theres a significant difference between straight up wiping your opponents army turn 1 or top of 2 with an alphastrike, versus having an army that overall is stronger and likely will win at the later turns. At least theres a game, people roll dice and will have fun for longer than 30-45 mins. Its an interesting discussion though, what do you reckon is best for the health of the game? That casual games are fun and enjoyable or that everything comes down to rock-paper-scissor balance at a 5 game tournament level? Ensuring people dont get utterly crushed at your "Average Joe" level does not exclude top level play being fun and somewhat balanced.

It feels a bit like what Ironjawz can do. If the opponent's army isnt well-equipped to deal with an alpha or simply isnt screening/deploying properly, it can be a bit of a "gotcha" moment. At least with Ironjawz theres no real way for them to deal with your screens, especially if they are in Hunters, as they are a pure melee army. Theres also the huge variance with the breath attacks where they can either whiff real hard, deal ok damage or just rinse the opponent's army. You are likely to remember the last part much more than the former two. Some units are simply not very good if you bring few, but a critical mass happens when you amass a certain amount of them. Drakes seem to be one of those where they just get better once you reach a certain number. Its certainly not a fun experience at all for your average Joe to roll up and put his toys on the table.

Is there a reason why you havent put the last unit of Blightkings into Hunters batallion as well? Dont think theres a huge difference between being 3 or 4 drops. Most seem to be 1 or 2 (if 2 monsters usually) or otherwise 5 due to Battle Regi + Warlords. Personally I dont value Morbidex that much. I think Bloab is the overall superior choice with the utility/spell he brings and otherwise Orgotths raw damage with 10 CPs a game is really good.

I feel like deepstrike is really important to us. Not only is the army relatively slow all around, you are also incentivized to do it by gaining a significant amount of summoning points by having stuff in their territory. Ontop of this its an easy battle tactic with Savage Spearhead and you get to threaten those support pieces etc. sitting in the back that you generally otherwise cant reach. You also put pressure on objectives that are otherwise hard to get to. I almost never write a list without either Spume or LoA. Spume is so good since its any mortal unit now, including the Maggoth Lords. LoA is great and offers some more options since it isnt board edge. Im not a huge fan of Nurglings since they have to come down turn 1, although you could probably put them near objectives as a roadblock for your opponent. I dont think theres any point in going 10. They only fight in 1 rank anyways and your healing is much better with MSU units.

I would magnetize that bad boy. Its probably the easiest model to magnetize so you can freely switch between Rotigus and GUO with the different loadouts. All the loadouts on the GUO are viable and it depends on what you want to do with the list. The bell is legit if you plan to play Befouling and play around getting 7 summoning pts turn 1 to summon a sloppity bilepiper. The bileblade is fine if hes a support role and you intend to cast 3 spells a turn (lore spell, mystic shield and maybe an endless spell or Gift of Disease if you go for poxes artefact). Flail/sword combo is great if you want to max out on damage and go for flaming weapon route.