Agent of Chaos
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Posts posted by Agent of Chaos
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@Lord Krungharr Despoilers worked well in 2.0 against shooting and line of sight magic so no reason why it still wouldnt be effective. Now that Daemon Princes have access to Finest Hour and Heroic Recovery they are tankier than ever.
Nurgle mark on the general is good for the -1 to shooting for those units that can be seen while Tzeentch mark helps protect against magic. Always hard to not go khorne for the halving run & charges however if you're trying to counter shooting/magic meta then keeping your opponent out of combat might not be as important.Paragon of Ruin command trait works great with chariots and Ive sometimes allied in a Bloodsecrator to really amp up a chariot's alpha strike.
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If you want to know how Khorne should play according to their Lore, look no further than Iron Jaws or Daughters.
Iron Jaws are in your face first first turn with multiple units, loads of attacks, high damage, fighting before you if they destroy a unit. Its fun, its fluffy, its not OP and very far from chess. Would be ideal if Khorne played the same way, except with no wizards and some anti-magic shenanigans.
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Can't see blood tithe going away. The only changes I would make is that unspent tithe is banked instead of wasted and the cap of 8 is removed. Even if GW removed the system entirely, they would have to replace it with something else or we would effectively not have any allegiance ability at all.
I would love to see us gain another allegiance ability that aligns with the lore. Something like "khorne units fight at the start of the combat phase if they charged". Would support a get into melee fast style of play and give our glass cannon units a chance to swing before they die and earn blood tithe, without being too OP.
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@W1tchhunter dont know if my list is semi competitive yet as Australia is in lockdown right now but my Tzeentch Idolators list should be super resilient with really good armour and rerolling 1's to save everywhere. Between the 2 sorcerers, mystic shield, all out defence and the 2 Tzeentch prayers there are 6 sources of +1 save. It also has great resistance to mortal wounds and spells while its damage output will come from spells and the chaos knights. At only 4 drops I should have choice of turn order more often than not. I dont see it winning any tournaments but it should play the objectives quite well and therefore I believe its at least semi competitive.
Slaves to Darkness - Idolators Grand Strategy: Hold the Line 4 Drops Command Entourage Notes Role Points Sorcerer Lord on Manticore Mark of Tzeentch, Spell: Binding Damnation Leader 270 Sorcerer Lord Mark of Tzeentch Artefact: Arcane Tome
Spell: Mask of DarknessLeader 115 Idolator Lord on Chariot General, Mark of Tzeentch, Great Weapon
Trait: Fiery Orator, Aftefact: Amulet of Destiny, Prayer: GuidanceLeader 105 Battle Regiment Notes Role Points Warshrine Mark of Tzeentch, Curse Leader, Behemoth 185 Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount Mark of Tzeentch Leader 155 Chaos Lord Mark of Tzeentch, Flail Leader 120 5 x Chaos Knights Mark of Tzeentch, Ensorcelled Weapons Battleline 170 5 x Chaos Knights Mark of Tzeentch, Glaives Battleline 170 20 x Chaos Warriors Mark of Tzeentch, Halberds & Shields Battleline 400 8 x Iron Golems Mark of Tzeentch Battleline 75 Khagra's Ravagers Mark of Undivided, Spell: Whispers of Chaos 125 Endless Spells Points Chronomatic Cogs 45 Soulsnare Shackles 65 TOTAL = 2000 -
@Battlefurylet's hear it!
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@Salyx that wont work. Flaming Weapon only effects the caster's weapon so you cant have another wizard cast it on archaon and he cant cast it on himself due to being unique. He can only cast bolt and shield (and in a slaves can have a spell from their lore).
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14 minutes ago, Praecautus said:
Yes, 3 artefacts. You get 1 artefact, spell and prayer for free before battalions and then 1 enhancement for each of the battalions. Unless I misread something?
yes the general survived but it was close, at the end of the very first turn he was on 1 ho prior to being able to garrison but the heal hero ability got him to full ho in 2 turns.
No you dont get one artefact per battalion. Those are old rules. Only Command Entourage and Warlord battalions grant an extra enhancement. Vanguard grants a once per battle reroll charge or auto run 6 for the units in the battalion.
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@Praecautus close games a good game! Good to hear the a Berzerker Lord Bloodsecrator in the altar is hard to kill as Im leaning that way too. Did he survive the battle?
Looking over your list and I was wondering if you had an extra artifact? Banner of Wraith, Gorecleaver and Mark of the Slayer is 3 but your battalions (Command Entourage and 2 x Vanguard) only allowed for 2. Am I missing something?
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Slight variation on a generic Khorne list I posted a while back, mixing daemons, mortals and beasts. It was 9 drops with a battle regiment which I realised was pretty pointless so reworked it into double warlord and hunters of the heartland. Its now 15 drops but the extra artifact I gained (Brazen Rune) means my general is even harder to kill.
KHORNE Grand Strategy: Vendetta 15 Drops Warlord Notes Role Points Doombull Leader 115 Bloodsecrator General, Trait: Berzerker Lord
Artifact: The Brazen RuneLeader 125 Bloodstoker Artifact: Talisman of Burning Blood Leader 85 3 x Bullgors Great Axes 155 3 x Bullgors Great Axes 155 Warlord Notes Role Points Daemon Prince Artifact: Mark of the Slayer Leader 210 Slaughterpriest Prayer: Killing Frenzy Leader 110 Aspiring Deathbringer Leader 85 10 x Bloodreavers Battleline 80 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 Hunters of the Heartlands Notes Role Points 5 x Wrathmongers 155 5 x Skullreapers 205 5 x Skullreapers 205 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 TOTAL = 2000 -
@readercolin thats a pretty nice list for a norsca theme and Ravagers is a good call. Karkadrak and manticores can do work. I would suggest trying to fit in a warshrine for the undivided prayer on the marauders before teleporting them in, then use all out attack or, if in range, the chaos lord for double tap.
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1 minute ago, Tizianolol said:
I think endless spell move only 2 time, you cant move then when you casted but just at the end of hero phase:(
You can move an endless spell a 3rd time in the hero phase with the Cabalist ritual.
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Meanwhile this is what I've got for Reapers;
Khorne - The Reapers of Vengeance Grand Strategy: Beast Master 6 Drops Warlord Notes Role Points Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage Artifact: Argath King of Blades Leader 280 Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury Leader 295 Bloodsecrator Leader 125 Slaughterpriest Prayer: Killing Frenzy Leader 110 5 x Wrathmongers 155 Battle Regiment Notes Role Points Wraith of Khorne Bloodthirster General, Trait: Mage Eater
Artifact: Skullshard MantleLeader 310 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 5 x Skullreapers 205 5 x Skullreapers 205 TOTAL = 2000 A much more reasonable 6 drops but probably ambitious with Beast Master as the Grand Strat. It relies on the thirsters to wreck face with ample support from the Skullreapers.
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KHORNE (Generic)
Grand Strategy: Sever the Head
9 Drops
Vanguard Notes Role Points Doombull Leader 115 3 x Bullgors Great Axes 155 3 x Bullgors Great Axes 155 Warlord Notes Role Points Daemon Prince Artifact: Mark of the Slayer Leader 210 Slaughterpriest Prayer: Killing Frenzy Leader 110 Aspiring Deathbringer Leader 85 10 x Bloodreavers Battleline 80 5 x Wrathmongers 155 Battle Regiment Notes Role Points Bloodsecrator General, Trait: Berzerker Lord Leader 125 Bloodstoker Artifact: Talisman of Burning Blood Leader 85 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 5 x Flesh Hounds Battleline 105 5 x Skullreapers 205 5 x Skullreapers 205 TOTAL = 2000 Its a crazy 9 drops but its all about buffing those bullgors with reroll 1's to hit (from Mark of the Slayer), +1 to hit and wound and extra attacks with flesh hounds to screen them. Meanwhile the skullreapers, bloodstoker & Deathbringer go off and do their thing. The Bloodsecrator should be fairly tanky, especially if he gets in cover and/or uses all out defense.
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I'm struggling with any type of Khorne list at the moment. One major issue is that we are used to making our General into a beatstick murder machine however AOS3 rewards you more for taking a tanky/defensive general. If you lose your general you lose a CP per turn so if he goes down during a Round 1 alpha strike thats 8CP for the battle you are losing. In addition you might have handed your opponent a battle tactic and/or their grand strategy, plus an extra VP if its a monster i.e. bloodthirster
I'm also mindful of which grand strategy to choose. Our battleline is all weak and meant to die so Hold the Line is out. Aside from Archaon none of our monsters or heroes (including priests) are tanky and we have no wizards so Beast Master, Pillars of Belief, Prized Sorcery and Vendetta are out. Sever the Head and Dominating Presence are extremely situational; you could come up against tanky heroes/units or just a mass of units and never be able to achieve these. That just leaves Predator's Domain, where a late game summoning might help us claim the extra terrain feature needed to achieve this Strat but my god (Khorne) its lame! 😞 I dont play Khorne to control scenery so I think Sever the Head feels best and I will just have to accept there will be games where its not possible to do.
Choosing a slaughterhost is also really tricky now. I want to run daemons, mortals and BoC together but the host rules will only effect 1 out of 3 of those factions. I want to run a tanky general but all the command traits promote an aggressive general. Thronebreakers Torc is nice but then you cant benefit from cover/all out defense. I think Reapers still has play, especially with the new restriction on Inspiring Presence. I also think Generic Khorne might be an option too. Below are a couple of lists I've cooked up...
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1 hour ago, ledha said:
if invocations are not prayer does that mean the skull altar don't help us to summon them ?
Skull Altar rules specifically state you can reroll judgement rolls so that should be sweet.
Im very surprised and confused to see that DOK invocations are not prayers as everything you read says Invocations are summoned with a "prayer" roll. I note there was no such clarification for Khorne invocations so its still unclear to me.
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11 hours ago, drkrash said:
As a greater daemon, he re-rolls 1s on all his attacks, charge or not. Has this changed?
Nothing has changed however he is running him in Legion of the First Prince allegiance as opposed to Khorne.
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@drcrater I would be very interested to see your Cabalist list.
@Enwolved I like your list but agree that 3 sorcerer lords might be a bit much on top of Belakor However the tzeentch sorcer with Master of Magic and Arcane Tome is too good a combo to pass up for me. This is what I have for Ravagers so far...
Slaves to Darkness - Ravagers Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain 5 Drops Warlord Notes Role Points Lord on Manticore Mark of Khorne, Daemon Blade & Lance
Trait: Eternal Vendetta, Artefact: Amulet of DestinyLeader 255 Chaos Lord Mark of Khorne, Trait: Flames of Spite Leader 120 Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount Mark of Khorne, Trait: Master of Deception Leader 155 5 x Chaos Chosen Mark of Khorne 145 Battle Regiment Notes Role Points Sorcerer Lord on Manticore Mark of Slaanesh, Trait: Bolstered by Hate,
Spell: Binding DamnationLeader 270 Sorcerer Lord Mark of Tzeentch, Trait: Master of Magic
Artefact: Arcane Tome, Spell: Mask of DarknessLeader 115 Daemon Prince Mark of Khorne Leader 210 5 x Chaos Knights Mark of Khorne, Lances Battleline 170 5 x Chaos Knights Mark of Khorne, Lances Battleline 170 10 x Chaos Warriors Mark of Tzeentch, Halberds & Rune Shields Battleline 200 Warshrine Mark of Khorne, Curse Behemoth 185 TOTAL = 1995 -
@Virtus-XIV Knights have and will continue to be strong for us. The Lord on Daemonic mount's command ability for +1 to hit and reroll charges is used in the hero phase while an allied bloodstoker whips them in the movement phase, meaning knights can still receive all out attack/defense or fight twice in the combat phase. Their inbuilt bravery debuff is more useful now. All round a very solid unit.
Chosen are a tricky one. They are slow and pretty costly. A 3+ save is nice but they still only have 2 wounds, have no mortal wound protection and average bravery. They dont have a massive footprint for their reroll wounds aura (an ability that can be made redundant by a number of things in the army such as daemonic power spell, warshrine's undivided and nurgle prayers, Idolator Lord's nurgle prayer, the aforementioned bloodstoker ally, etc). 5 of them average less than 3 mortal wounds and if you fight with them first to proc the wound rerolls, the unit you wanted to benefit from those rerolls is getting attacked before it can swing.
Despite the above I am keen to try them, perhaps in partnership with an anvil of chaos warriors that isnt already rerolling wounds from one of the many available sources.
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@Eldarain Feel the same about damage output. I try to write a strong melee list but find its damage output still appears lacking while having less than half of the resilience.
I look at my Tzeentch list and think, how would I beat Gargants or Ogres or Fire Slayers etc? I doubt there is enough killing power to take down one Mega Gargant, let alone 2 or 3. Especially with the shackles I think the list plays super defensively, trys to do magic damage from the back while the front line holds and use the manticore/glaive knights as a scalpel. Maybe its possible to win tough games this way but will need to play some games to know for sure.
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I agree there maybe something to the mark of Tzeentch now. Originally I wanted to run a big anvil of Nurgle warriors for the 3+ rerolling saves in Idolators but following the FAQ I'm thinking the same anvil in Tzeentch Idolators might be the way to go.
I have 6 sources of +1 save (3 automatic [2 x Oracular Visions + All Out Defense], 2 on 2+ prayers and another from mystic shield) on top of the reroll 1's aura and inbuilt +1 save for warriors and Iron Golems. "Saves" to Darkness indeed!
The Idolator Lord is a CP generating machine; 1 for being General, another 1 on 4+ from Guidance prayer and then another from Heroic Leadership. This might put a target on his head but he rerolls 1's to save with easy access to increased save, has a 5+ shrug, benefits from Look Out Sir and in a pinch could heal with Heroic Recovery . Meanwhile it means I feel safe running Command Entourage instead of Warlord battalion so I'm only 4 drops.
Almost every unit has a 5+ mortal wound shrug, plus the 5+ ignore spells if wholly within 12" of the general and I have 3 wizards with up to 4 unbinds/turn.
Overall it should amount to a very resilient list however I'm very much relying on spells and maybe the Manticore and Glaive knights as my main damage outlets.
Slaves to Darkness - Idolators Grand Strategy: Hold the Line 4 Drops Command Entourage Notes Role Points Sorcerer Lord on Manticore Mark of Tzeentch, Spell: Binding Damnation Leader 270 Sorcerer Lord Mark of Tzeentch, Trait: Master of Magic
Artefact: Arcane Tome, Spell: Mask of DarknessLeader 115 Idolator Lord on Chariot General, Mark of Tzeentch, Great Weapon
Trait: Fiery Orator, Aftefact: Amulet of Destiny, Prayer: GuidanceLeader 105 Battle Regiment Notes Role Points Warshrine Mark of Tzeentch, Curse Leader, Behemoth 185 Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount Mark of Tzeentch Leader 155 Chaos Lord Mark of Tzeentch, Flail Leader 120 5 x Chaos Knights Mark of Tzeentch, Ensorcelled Weapons Battleline 170 5 x Chaos Knights Mark of Tzeentch, Glaives Battleline 170 20 x Chaos Warriors Mark of Tzeentch, Halberds & Shields Battleline 400 8 x Iron Golems Mark of Tzeentch Battleline 75 Khagra's Ravagers Mark of Undivided, Spell: Whispers of Chaos 125 Endless Spells Points Chronomatic Cogs 45 Soulsnare Shackles 65 TOTAL = 2000 How would you improve the above list?
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6 hours ago, Gristlegut said:
My question for him is how effective is his 6 roll on wounds effect? If he could be a bit more tanky would he be better? I plan on teaming him up with a unit of bloodcrushers. I am worried about his lack of shooting.
What is the BT Meta these days with the 3.0/FAQ changes? Be'lakor thanks you!
The Insensate Rage Thirster can be an absolute murder machine game winner. If you charge him to the right place and get a couple of 6's on the wound roll he can decimate half an army. 6-8 mortal wounds will cripple most units and take out any supporting heroes nearby. His biggest issues are: 4+ to hit (less of an issue now with all out attack) and the swingy nature of D6 damage (Ive had combats where he didnt roll any 6's to wound and did 3 damage overall).
Survivability is not this guy's concern. Rerolling saves is nice, a 5+ ward from amulet of destiny is probably better. Either way he will go down so the trick is to do as much damage before he does. The artifact for D3 mortal wounds on 5+ to hit sounds awesome as he will be a mortal wound machine. Remember he rerolls 1's to hit on the charge which will help proc that artifact.
I would not recommend putting bloodcrushers in your list. 3 of them do nothing, 6 of them suffer from coherency and are way overcosted for what they do. I would screen the thirster with 5 x flesh hounds. They can screen better and get you an extra unbind.
As for the Meta? Way too early to say. We know thirsters will benefit from the new hero and monster abilities so that only adds to their effectiveness. We also know shooting is still very strong and now unleash hell is a thing so make sure you send in a chaff unit first to soak up any shots before charging the thirster in.
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1 hour ago, SpiritofHokuto said:
Does it lose Behemoth with becoming a Leader? I know in other armies that's the case, but I can't see where that's the case for the Warshrine?
Its still a behemoth. Its because it has the Priest keyword and in Idolators all Priests gain the Leader battlefield role.
Yes its still part of the Battle Company but cant qualify for the "monster" slot because it has the Leader role. It can take the Commander Slot as the only requirement is the Leader role.
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@SpiritofHokuto I like your list, similar to the one I've been crafting.
One thing to note in Idolators, the Warshrine becomes a Leader. That means it can't fulfill the Behemoth slot in the Battle Company Battalion. Your list is still legal though as the shrine can take the Commander slot, with both the Idolator Lord and Lord on Foot as sub commanders;
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@Perturbato its strange they've used the original version of Crimson Haze and not the FAQ version which specifies melee weapons. The warscroll in the app was updated for the FAQ so unless they are changing the warscroll back I think its just a lazy misprint for the article.
Bloodblessings are described as prayers in their own description so pretty certain priests cant do a blessing and a prayer in the same turn however it does sound like the Judgements will no longer disappear on their own accord so that definitely pushes their value up. Especially if Wraith Axe stays at 5+ to chant that will make it very difficult for an opposing priest to banish it.
Being able to garrison the bloodsecrator in the altar will be handy for the protection and slightly boosted aura range.
The BoC 1 in 4 units thing is very interesting. I wonder where this rule comes from and if it is unique to khorne?
AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion
in Chaos
Posted
100% swap brazen rune for talisman of burning blood. that aura of extra movement will be so much more beneficial for getting all these units to where you want them. You do look set up to play the objectives/battle tactics well.