Maddpainting

I painted a full army with them for a major GT that i needed to paint in a couple moths, Worked great for speed and ez painting.

The large Ork IJ/savage pigs are great. These https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ironjawz-Orruk-Gore-Gruntas

All melee focus armies has ways to boost their movements, double move, pre-game move, gain extra charges, deepstrike with bonuses to charges or re-rolls, run and charge, or all the above. Examples: FeC: +4" move, +1" charge, and double move IDK: 16" fly run and charge with re-rolls and +3" to charge BoC: +3" move, +1" run, run and charge, also able to get +1" more to run and charge There are many more, just a few examples.

Didn't we have one of these threads a few months ago? -Streamline the 12 types of terrain -Endless spells support and non magic support (way to easy to be all or nothing in magic) -Limit damage of range abilities (maybe over 18" -1 to hit or something) -Double turn if stays, other player gains something like a free Triumph, 2 CP, or something.

Krakanrok the Black, it would be on the same level as Vorgaroth the Scarred. https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Krakanrok_the_Black

More heroes are more bodies 5/6 the time

I try to never take less than 3 Heroes b.c Gavespawn is a HUGE part of my tactics. Locking mega heroes/units into combat for an additional turn so they can not move changes the game completely. Without Gavespawn i would be in lots of trouble. So I tend to start with 4 heroes and go from there.

Other options is remove the gorge and go in on bull charging, MW's on the charge or something.

About the same list as I have been for 2yrs lol. Shaman Shaman Shaman BL/DB Bestis Bestis Bestis Bullgor x6 or 30 Bestigors ( if I take Betis I take BL, if I take Bulls I take DB). Ungors Ungors Raiders Raiders Insert more Ungors and more Raiders Gavespawn Depraved Drove/ Thats about it. Depending how I feel I might take more Raiders than Ungors, or more Ungors and more Bestigors. Some times I go really Raider heavy and take 120 (4x30) with 60 Bestigors (1x30, 2x10) and just turn 1 flood the table with Raiders, sniping a key character or or unit, then forcing them to take the double turn or possible lose right there. I won against Seraphon like this the a couple weeks ago. Sniped out 2 units of 3 Salamders on my turn 1 before he got the +1 to saves off. He has to kill the Raiders now and take turn 2 first to stand a chance. But that is... not fun to play IMO, it is very hit or miss (its still 4+/4+ and they still get a 4+ save, yes I re-roll hits of 1 and 2, but its still swingy) so it either works or.... it doesn't lol.

Yeah thats ok they heal to full, they are lacking in armor. Many other Behemoths has after saves, 4+ saves, if not a 3+, ignores a rend, ignore a point of damage, etc.... Also this is core rules ideas again, not warscrolls, warscrolls will indeed still and needs to change.

I don't mind GW's Chimera. I actually don;t like mantic's version, just feels old school, 80's style.

Bullgors from all long as I can remember has always had rules for themt o eat in combat, older rules made them not Over run and cased fear. If they had to eat as part of the fluff I see that as a fluffy rule. Maybe give them -1LD as a fear to ad. But its not really about making them tanky. Ignoring fluff of the gorge rule, I would give them a Charging does MW's rules. Optional: Warherd: Raging charge: When this unit completes a charge move, for each model within 1" of an enemy model roll a D6 and on a 4+ deal 1MW, on a 6+ deal D3 MW's. Add +1 to rolls if the unit is Behemoth or Character. Ambush I didn't get into for now. About Monsters, well I am keeping in mind that I want to also redo all of their warscrolls.

I think you miss understood the Warherd ability, if a unit kills any model that unit can heal. How does the Doombull fit into that? Its a army wide ability that all Warherd gets, even Doombulls, Cygors, Ghorgons, and Bullgors. Also these are Army rules not Warscrolls or stats of the units. PS: Its ok if we lack the punch if w can pick what and when to fight. You have to give something up for that. But it can't be too much either. These ideas helps with that.

I feel a lot of our Problem is lack of rules that works for our many different units. Without changing too much of the warscrolls (which I want and we need and I would) I also think our Core rules should change first. I have a list of Army rules/abilities I think will fit our army better and would like to share my ideas. Brayherd Primal Fury: Units that made a charge move this turn gains re-roll wounds rolls of 1. If the unit attacking has more than 10 models in it you can re-roll hits rolls of 1. This is for Brayherd only, this will give Brayherd that real herd mentality when there are lots of them and they are in the mist of the fight they are just enrage and their primal instincts takes over. Thunderscorn Creatures of the storm: In the Hero phase a Thunderscorn unit not in engagement range may Ride the Lightning., and if it is within engagement range then it may instead Thunderclap. Ride the Lightning: Pick this unit up and place it anywhere wholly within 18" and outside of 9" of an enemy unit. Thunderclap: Roll a D6 for each Thunderscorn model, on a 3+ you deal 1 MW to a enemy unit within engagement range, on a 6+ you instead deal D3 MW's. This will make Thunderscorn feel fluffy, they are suppose to come down on a bolt of lightning and have lightning abilities. Warherd Bloodgorge: At the end of combat phase for each model slain by this unit roll a D6 and for each 2+ you heal 1 wound to that unit. If that unit was healed for the rest of the turn they re-roll off wound rolls. Bullgors are suppose to feed in the middle of the battle, this will heal them (you know b.c they are easting) and make them mad if they have to do combat again that same turn making them more scary than before. Monsters of Chaos Feral Monsters: Monsters of Chaos units other than Thunderscorn can re-roll failed charges against any unit that took damage in the same turn and has a Bravery of +3 the turn they destroyed an enemy unit. This makes monsters feel like monsters, they get the sense of blood and goes after them. Monsters of Chaos additive changes Mightiest of the Monsters: Shaggoths and Jabberscythe may be chosen as a Leader, and if they are your General then all Monsters of Chaos Behemoths, War Hounds, and Dragon Ogres with the Monsters of Chaos Keyword becomes Battleline. This is to make the Monsters feel like an army, want to run lots of Cocktrices, Jabbers, and Hounds? Perfect! Brayherd Ambush stays the same. Let me know what you think! PS, yes I didn't address all the issues, some warcroll changes, and summoning table needs to be modified after all points. But the focus was on the army rules as a whole and not warscrolls for now. I feel this needs to happen before you can change some of the warcrolls. PPS: I am trying to fix the grammar whenever I see it, i need to re-read things many times as I have a visual impairment.

"If everything is good, nothing is." Commenting on that with a serious of discussions. Someone said Battalions shouldn't give Artifacts, so I said then make them stronger, you came in and to "If everything is good, nothing is." well then you have less options to take so it should be more impactful if you can only ever take 1. Otherwise why even have artifacts then?

The problem is, we have terrible artifacts to help are subfactions if we are taking a Greatfray. If you force Battalions to not give us extra artifacts then they better be good or no one will ever take them for any reason. So its just a waste of space for rules, you could remove them and no one would notice. Personally I would rather have more relics and make them cost points, 10-50pts. Nothing crazy but we can give each hero something and let us buff up our heroes to fit a role better and be more fun to use.

15-20 is perfect IMO b.c you want some good variety for different styles, this also means you want at least 4-5 Heroes if not more, a Centerpiece model, a couple battleline, etc...

Ambushing T1 is the "not strong" part of it, you can give us Primal Fury or other buffs and leave Ambushing T1 still with Relics, traits, etc.. for turn 1 and turn 2.

I'd rather the 3 Subfactions (Bray, War, Thunder/Monster) army wide rules get a boost first and then see if Ambush needs to be changed. Brayherd doesn't even have any traits other than Ambush which should be an army wide rule to begin with. If Brayherd Ambush would get better then make it better only for Brayherd and let the rest of the army have the we have now. But as is every other army has traits on top of traits for everything and we do not.

40k also has terrain that 100% blocks all LoS and you need 4-5 of those pieces on the table or its a terrible game. Then you have -1 to hit terrain b.c that still isn't good enough. Lists are also not as diverse though. Even though its a Ro3 many times its 4-5 Troops, 1-2 same HQ's 2-3 of the same Fast, 2-3 of the same Heavy, and 2-3 of the same Elite. Every Sister player has 2-3 Repentia, 2-3 Retributors, 3 Troops, Canoness, Triumph, Imagifier, then the last 300-400pts might be Mortifiers or Exorcists. Every Marines is 3-6 Intercessors, 2 Vanguard Vets or Bladeguard, Capt, Chap, Lieu, to start. Then 600pts of "What color marines are you special units" They do have more units for sure that are being taken, but its always the same units for each army with marines having the most, but marines also has 200+ units to pick from. When you think about the Raito of picked units out of all viable units, AoS has more units being taken vs not taken b.c 40k has so many units. There are many armies with only 2-3 viable units right now b.c 40k is so skewed.

We really need warscroll changes and ability changes.

Relics, triumphs, hero abilities, etc.. if you add that to Ambush you can't add other options that might take away from other units. Its just a balancing thing and depending on how you want the army will depend how you want to buff certain spots.

But you have to consider that with re-roll charges.

"why should the game push you into restrictive lists?" its not, some of the battalions are, you can still make a full army without them and many comp lists don't take them or takes 1 and adds more. They are "Fluffy" options to make your army feel a certain way. Just like how you can change your units to Battleline. Its the same purpose. You are almost not being rewarded, you are paying points to bring certain units to gain a buff. IMO the problem is many battalions are too weak. Why would I take my Thunderscorn battalion (Beast of Chaos Dragon Ogres battalion) as it literally does nothing for me, i would only take it if i wanted CP and more Artifacts. Taking DO's in the God battalions is just better b.c it actually helps them more so. The second problem is just MANY units are bad, and i mean REALLY bad, its why IDK spamed the same 2-3 units, its why BoC spams the same 3-4 units, its why many armies spams the same 2-3 units. For IDK their Akhelian Corps is one of my favorites and now it is finally playable. That has a lot of diversity in it and is becoming more and more popular. Before it was just spam Eels and Kings. Well now there are sharks, Leviathans, etc.. Over all they are doing what they should be doing, making you choose a fluffier lists for bonuses for take the most OP units over and over again to forgo the bonuses.

Then give us more ways to get Artifacts or if every army is limited to just 1 then make them 2-3x as strong as they are now. Personally I think ost battalions are fine and do what they are suppose to do. They are supposed to push you into restrictive lists. Thats literally the point of them.